Trek was good and lasting because inspite of Gene not because of him, he may have had the original vision but it was those around him that made Trek awsome
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Gene Roddenberry was an Idea Man, he had good ideas, and no one can take that away from him, but with TOS, I'm more of a Gene Coon guy. And as much as I like TMP, I think the TOS Movies got more mileage underneath Harve Bennett. I don't think the TOS Movies would've made it through the '80s if they'd stayed under Roddenberry. And I think TNG got better when he stepped back. Seven seasons like the first season of TNG wouldn't have flown either.
So, I agree with you.
TNG didn’t really get better after Gene. It had some higher highs, but it’s lows were as bad or worse. And it got blander, stiffer, and prudish. I watch the first two years of the show more often than others. I much prefer the energy, look, and characters.
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I've read a lot of the TOS memos and Roddenberry's later notes on the Bennett-produced films. He wasn't a passive producer. He had a heavy hand on TOS, even when Coon took over the day-to-day producing.
He knew his own show. He knew what made those characters tick. He knew what made a good STAR TREK story. He could spot a story flaw from orbit.
Say what you will about Roddenberry as a man or a writer, but in his prime he was a damn good showrunner.
Oh, and the non-interference directive is in Roddenberry's pilot version of "The Omega Glory." All Coon did was give it a formalized name, the Prime Directive. So it's very much a Roddenberry creation and was there from the start.
And I agree with @Mark 2000, the first two seasons of TNG are much better than the later seasons.
He knew his own show. He knew what made those characters tick. He knew what made a good STAR TREK story. He could spot a story flaw from orbit.
Say what you will about Roddenberry as a man or a writer, but in his prime he was a damn good showrunner.
Oh, and the non-interference directive is in Roddenberry's pilot version of "The Omega Glory." All Coon did was give it a formalized name, the Prime Directive. So it's very much a Roddenberry creation and was there from the start.
And I agree with @Mark 2000, the first two seasons of TNG are much better than the later seasons.
I don't know if you were directing this at me or speaking in general but, to be totally clear, I think Gene Roddenberry knew his own show. I never said he didn't. Not once in 23 years on this board.
And awesome that Gene Roddenberry came up with the concept for the Prime Directive. That's great, that's fine, I'm on your side.
I just like Gene Coon's writing style better. That's it. Please don't read any more into it than that.
I think the first season of TNG had a lot of cringy-ness to it. Not so much the second season.
Coon's early draft of "Arena" had Kirk saying he'd still have to go after the Gorn ship at the end and the Metrons fix it by blipping the Gorn ship out of existence. I smell Bird all over the change to the ending that made it to air.
I hate to "as I said" but going through production documentation as I have really demonstrates the lie of the idea of Roddenberry as this hands-off guy and that others are responsible for so much of it. Roddenberry was neither the sole creator nor a mere figurehead. He contributed a lot. Arguably more than anyone else.
I'm not going to argue about later-life Bird. I'm speaking 1964–69 Bird.
I hate to "as I said" but going through production documentation as I have really demonstrates the lie of the idea of Roddenberry as this hands-off guy and that others are responsible for so much of it. Roddenberry was neither the sole creator nor a mere figurehead. He contributed a lot. Arguably more than anyone else.
I'm not going to argue about later-life Bird. I'm speaking 1964–69 Bird.
I like Duet, I think it's an early great episode of DS9. But tastes differ and if it doesn't do much for you, that's perfectly fine with me.
Oh my, the controversy ...
Oh my, the controversy ...
I was referring to his general writing style and his sense of humor. I didn't think I'd have to spell it out this exactly but apparently I do. I never mentioned "Arena" specifically in either of my last two posts. Yes, I know Gene L. Coon had writing credit for "Arena".
The "you're still half-savage" line also feels like Roddenberry having his hand in the writing. I've suspected that for years. I know how to spot where one writer's style stops and another's begins.
Yeah right.
I also never said Gene Roddenberry was hands-off with TOS or a "figurehead". I've only ever said that about TNG. And even on TNG, it was his health that forced him into becoming a figurehead. If he had a choice, that wouldn't have happened.
You don't need to argue TOS Gene with me. I'll tell you what I told Ryan, I'm on your side here. But "contributed a lot" doesn't equal "contributed all". Will I recognize what Gene Roddenberry came up with? Yes. But will I also recognize what everyone else came up with no matter how large or small? Also yes.
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I think TNG seasons 3-4 are the strongest on average. If I had to pick the best episode from each season, it would be as follows.
"The Neutral Zone"
"The Emissary"
"The Best of Both Worlds"
"Redemption"
"Darmok"
"Relics"
"The Pegasus"
"The Neutral Zone"
"The Emissary"
"The Best of Both Worlds"
"Redemption"
"Darmok"
"Relics"
"The Pegasus"
I didn't quote you nor was I replying to you specifically. I was talking about the broader notion expressed here and elsewhere that diminishes Roddenberry's contributions and elevates Coon and Fontana, etc. at his expense. So you don't need to tell me anything. I'm expressing my opinion on a "controversial" topic as per the subject.
That's actually a pretty common sentiment.
I have 2
1) I like Star Trek Picard
2) I thing Q survived after series 2
1) I like Star Trek Picard
2) I thing Q survived after series 2
Funny!
Good choices there, as they are definitely among my favorites of each season.
Except "The Neutral Zone". Better than "Where No One Has Gone Before"? "The Arsenal of Freedom"? "11001001"? "Heart of Glory" or "The Big Goodbye"?
"The Neutral Zone" being the best of season 1... that is a controversial opinion. Particularly since that one was directly affected by the WGA strike of 1988.
To the degree rambling word salad is entertaining, sure.
I’d advise a deep breath and a rethink of your current path.
The Borg are actually quite dull both in terms of their original conception and their subsequent overuse.
I like Seasons 4 and 5 the most.
S2 is the only TNG season I actually own. I do have other episodes here and there that came in some of the Fan Collective DVD compilations or two-parters that were released on blu-ray.
Kor
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