What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Kind of a precursor to the late DS9/FC uniforms.I really like Picard's "captain's jacket" that he wore in the later seasons of TNG. In fact I wish this is what all the TNG uniforms had looked like.
That said you can see from the picture that it is made from the same material as a Juicy trackie and I can imagine him sweating buckets in that uniform
Admiral Dougherty kind of had a point, and the Ba'ku were selfish privileged people. Sure, the Ba'ku were benefitting from continued good health and longevity and some pretty real estate; but, if 6,000 of them had been willing to simply age like normal people and move to a similarly pretty world, they could have helped "millions" of sick people and revolutionized medical science for billions. Nobody was asking them to suffer. They would even have benefitted from the medical advances themselves. But did we see even a single Ba'ku say, "I'll give up my place here to save my millions of horribly ill Federation neighbors"?
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You're assuming that the Baku would've fundamentally objected to this if anyone had simply asked them instead of attacking them unprovoked and trying to kidnap them. You're also assuming the Son'a's technology would actually produce a miracle cure-all which would last forever and produce enough medicine for everyone in the Federation instead of simply running out after a while and no longer being replaceable because the process of stripping the energy from the rings destroyed the only source of the particles. And you're assuming there were millions of horribly ill Federation neighbours in desperate need of being saved from diseases and birth defects that somehow weren't in any way treatable by the already miraculous Federation medical science.
The movie doesn't actually give any facts at all to support any of these assumptions. It's a big part of why the movie is as boring as it is. Because it makes no effort whatsoever to actually make the Federation's 'dilemma' even remotely logical or believable.
Well, they definitely weren't offering, I'll say that much.
Seems like Picard would have mentioned this in his argument with Dougherty. Picard seemed to stipulate that the radiation would be effective. He objected to a forced relocation.
Again, Dougherty claimed "it could help millions" and Picard didn't snap back something like "oh, nonsense...you exaggerate. It is perhaps a few thousand, Admiral."
That much I agree on. Now what if the movie started with a somber log where Picard lamented the seemingly incurable engineered disease that the Dominion had recently released on several Federation worlds? People sickened and dying by the millions. Now you have a moral dilemma. Save millions by wronging thousands, or respect the rights of thousands while millions die? Or raise the stakes farther by making it so that the Ba'ku have become physiologically obligated to remain on the planet within the radiation field or else they themselves will die. Millions can be saved only by murdering thousands of innocents.
wait just a minute there, that would be a good movie with a solid foundation for drama. How dare you write a good TNG movie. Don’t you know they are supposed to be shite?
(by the way, that seriously would be a good starting point)
controversial opinion: Star Trek would be a better place if there had been NO (yes, I said no… as in zero) TNG movies. They range from mediocre to complete waste of film. The creative team was so tapped out by this point that they were incapable of making anything good, not that I think they even understood the differences of movie vs 1 hour tv.
Which is hardly strange considering the Federation chose to take the planet without even asking first. Why should they even think about trusting Dougherty after what he's already done?
Picard should've said a lot of things in those scenes. Dougherty's description of the Prime Directive is total nonsense that flies directly in the face of almost every description of the PD in TNG, yet Picard says nothing. It really cannot be explained by anything other than just terrible, terrible writing. Though if one was desperate to try to make things fit together better, I guess you could assume Picard went into bulldog mode and got so caught up the issue of relocation that it never occurred to him to mention all the *other* stuff that was obviously wrong with Dougherty's argument or to at all question Dougherty's assertions about subjects he might be personally less familiar with. Not a great explanation, but about as good as can be salvaged from that writing.
That's definitely a major step in the right direction. Also, have someone actually pose the question of whether the particles would actually last and whether the harvesting process isn't going to totally destroy the source of them. (Even if the answers are yes and no, the question still has to actually be answered in the story.) And maybe also have the Baku actually consider admitting plague victims to a medical colony on their world once they learn about the suffering going on to make the dilemma even harder (since a colony may not have enough room for everyone, but now you feel even worse considering killing the Baku).
I have to agree. I don't find much in there that makes me want to revisit them.
I've seen plenty of two-part Trek episodes that were a lot better than most of the franchise's films. The only two I really liked were "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" and "Star Trek: First Contact".
The Baku was one village, there was an entire planet.
Why did the Baku need to move?
Surely the Healing Radiation wasn't just concentrated on that one village?
Couldn't StarFleet work around the Baku?
The Baku are Warp Capable, and not even native to that planet.
Why did the Baku need to move?
Surely the Healing Radiation wasn't just concentrated on that one village?
Couldn't StarFleet work around the Baku?
The Baku are Warp Capable, and not even native to that planet.
The movie's answer to this was that Starfleet couldn't harvest the particles without the Sona's help and the Sona refused to consider anything less than stripping the rings and rendering the entire planet uninhabitable. This was ostensibly because anything less than that wouldn't be concentrated enough to save the Sona from dying of old age, but it was pretty transparently also because they wanted revenge on the Baku.
Some how, given enough time, I think StarFleet & the Baku would've figured out a solution the healing radiation w/o having to strip mine the rings.
It seems likely to me, too, but again the Sona were unwilling to go that route and Starfleet was unable to use the particles at all without their help. Though they could easily have just put a medical colony on the planet itself, which Dougherty apparently didn't want to do for no better reason than because 'nobody wants to live in the Briar Patch'. Yet another aspect of the movie's blatant character assassination of the entire Federation.
Just to throw it out there, there is also no reason to believe that the particles in the planets rings were nothing more than "transformers" altering the ambient radiation of the Briar Patch into a healing energy. Once removed from the Briar Patch, the particles could become useless.
The Son'a only wanted to take the particles of the rings to heal themselves and let the Ba'ku die. Being uncaring enough to kill your own people, what's to say they would have shared the healing particles with the Federation.
Once the whole plot was uncovered and thwarted, the Federation could have asked to set up a medical facility on the far side of the planet. Guaranteeing their protection, and doing their best to keep secret the healing ability on the planet would be a way to get back the trust of the Ba'ku. As long as the Ba'ku were given a guarantee that they would be left alone, they seemed to be pretty reasonable and allow the facility to be constructed.
The Son'a only wanted to take the particles of the rings to heal themselves and let the Ba'ku die. Being uncaring enough to kill your own people, what's to say they would have shared the healing particles with the Federation.
Once the whole plot was uncovered and thwarted, the Federation could have asked to set up a medical facility on the far side of the planet. Guaranteeing their protection, and doing their best to keep secret the healing ability on the planet would be a way to get back the trust of the Ba'ku. As long as the Ba'ku were given a guarantee that they would be left alone, they seemed to be pretty reasonable and allow the facility to be constructed.
It was like they needed just one (1) person with common sense, to read the script and point out the HUGE holes in it.
I mostly agree. I think that half of First Contact was worthwhile though - the part where they retconned Zephram Cochrane into a thinly-veiled expy of Gene Roddenberry. The Borg stuff from FC was entertaining at the time, but ultimately just a bad choice, considering it ultimately humanized the Borg by changing them from a horror movie concept into just another villain.
But as for the rest...Generations directly pissed on the perfect closure of TUC, Insurrection is just a big-budget TNG episode with a really muddled message (I have said before it reads like it's being in support of a few wealthy NIMBYS who don't want a project of great public good ruining their land values), and NEM (aside from being a bad movie) is just some generic action flick which happens to have the TNG cast walk on.
That obviously never happened =D
They got the grabby womanizer part down =D.
And Gene, like many others, definitely would've had the hots for Marina Sirtis
I'd imagine if any of us was thrown hundreds of years into the future we might not be at our best behaviour.
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