Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x10 - "A Quality of Mercy"

[lawman]

You are confusing ‘facts’ about the production with ‘facts’ about the fictional universe the shows take place in. I am referring to the latter. William Shatner being an actor in TOS is a fact. Warp drive is not a fact. It is a fictitious construct with no real scientific plausibility used a plot device to tell a story, and its functions change at the whim of the scriptwriter.

Quite so.

It confounds me how often some people conflate "Doyleist" arguments with "Watsonian" arguments. Both can be interesting. Both can be relevant, in different contexts. But they're not the same thing, and you can't use one as a response to the other.

 

[blssdwlf]

The computer says "Captain James T. Kirk succeeded to command ISS Enterprise through assassination of Captain Christopher Pike". The term "succeeded" requires he was next in line for the position, so he couldn't have been a Captain on a different ship, who killed Pike to take over his better ship (thought I could totally see that being a thing in the Mirror Universe).

That's a pretty cool find! I don't believe "succeeded" would normally require the XO to be next in line for promotion unless it was a field promotion but instead are usually through assignments from a higher authority. However, Mirror Spock did say that Kirk's death would result in Spock being Captain so yeah, under the "Mirror, Mirror" rules that seems to imply Pike was killed by XO Kirk to get command.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Nah, there many facts about the Star Trek franchise. Hundreds even. Perhaps thousands. After all it's long running entertainment property going back to the middle of the last century. Heck there's a web site called "Fact Check" that actually tries to separate the rumors, innuendo and myths from the facts. And none it involves canon. There are memos, memoirs, photos and legal documents detailing the facts involved with the production of Star Trek.

Hey thanks for the plug! Although I'm only an associate Fact Trekker... @Maurice and @Harvey do all the heavy lifting.

Here's a link to the FACT TREK site: https://www.facttrek.com/

End shameless plug. As Data would say, "Please continue the petty bickering."

 

[KirkusOveractus]

That's a pretty cool find! I don't believe "succeeded" would normally require the XO to be next in line for promotion unless it was a field promotion but instead are usually through assignments from a higher authority. However, Mirror Spock did say that Kirk's death would result in Spock being Captain so yeah, under the "Mirror, Mirror" rules that seems to imply Pike was killed by XO Kirk to get command.

Not necessarily. Kirk could have been in command of a lesser ship, coveted command of Enterprise, and assassinated Pike to take the ship. It would be like a pirate commanding a smaller ship, overtaking a bigger one, killing the Captain and assuming command of the larger ship.

 

[Maurice]

Heck there's a web site called "Fact Check" that actually tries to separate the rumors, innuendo and myths from the facts.

That's FACT TREK and its predecessor was @Harvey's Star Trek Fact Check blog.

Hey thanks for the plug! Although I'm only an associate Fact Trekker... @Maurice and @Harvey do all the heavy lifting.

You're a founding mother.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You are confusing ‘facts’ about the production with ‘facts’ about the fictional universe the shows take place in. I am referring to the latter. William Shatner being an actor in TOS is a fact. Warp drive is not a fact. It is a fictitious construct with no real scientific plausibility used as a plot device to tell a story, and its functions change at the whim of the scriptwriter.

No confusion on my part. The only facts I was referring to are about the production.

 

[UssGlenn]

Not necessarily. Kirk could have been in command of a lesser ship, coveted command of Enterprise, and assassinated Pike to take the ship. It would be like a pirate commanding a smaller ship, overtaking a bigger one, killing the Captain and assuming command of the larger ship.

I considered that interpretation but I think in this context it's akin to how you would use it when talking about inheriting a property or title, where you would know ahead of time who is next.

 

[Captrek]

Is every ridiculous joke on Lower Decks now a “fact” about the universe in which Star Trek shows take place? Or will the authors of other shows be allowed to contradict it?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Is every ridiculous joke on Lower Decks now a “fact” about the universe in which Star Trek shows take place? Or will the authors of other shows be allowed to contradict it?

Yes

And also yes.

 

[Mudd]

Blogging on pop culture and politics at SmartRemarks

Not today, you aren't.

 

[Mr Awe]

It is an odd choice for the episode to make so much of the change and to not make the decisive difference clear; it almost seems to be a disaster independent of Pike being the wrong man for the moment, which is the apparent theme they were trying to communicate.

No, it was made abundantly clear in the episode. From the beginning of the episode with the Batel breakfast scene, Pike doubts that Romulans are a threat. Later it's made clear that Pike hesitates too long and he doesn't want to destroy them. It's Kirk who says that something is wrong after the comet. Later Pike trusts the Romulans during the two-hour break and doesn't devise a backup plan. It's Kirk who comes up with one.

Finally, the writer's use Kirk to explicitly state the problem by wondering what would happen if they had just blown the BoP out of the sky. That was the correct course of action, but Pike didn't want to do that. He wanted to go gentle on them, hesitated, and then didn't come up with a backup plan.

In short, Pike just didn't take the Romulans as a serious threat. And that was made clear multiple times and in multiple ways throughout the episode.

 

[fireproof78]

Is every ridiculous joke on Lower Decks now a “fact” about the universe in which Star Trek shows take place? Or will the authors of other shows be allowed to contradict it?

Both.

 

[Dukhat]

No confusion on my part. The only facts I was referring to are about the production.

But you clearly knew what I was referring to, did you not?

 

[Nerys Myk]

But you clearly knew what I was referring to, did you not?

Since the conversation was about real world stuff, nope.

 

[blssdwlf]

No, it was made abundantly clear in the episode. From the beginning of the episode with the Batel breakfast scene, Pike doubts that Romulans are a threat. Later it's made clear that Pike hesitates too long and he doesn't want to destroy them. It's Kirk who says that something is wrong after the comet. Later Pike trusts the Romulans during the two-hour break and doesn't devise a backup plan. It's Kirk who comes up with one.

Finally, the writer's use Kirk to explicitly state the problem by wondering what would happen if they had just blown the BoP out of the sky. That was the correct course of action, but Pike didn't want to do that. He wanted to go gentle on them, hesitated, and then didn't come up with a backup plan.

In short, Pike just didn't take the Romulans as a serious threat. And that was made clear multiple times and in multiple ways throughout the episode.

That must've been another alternate future. With the exception of Batel having breakfast with Pike, none of the action or inaction you attribute to Pike occurred in "A Quality of Mercy". YMMV.

 

[Dukhat]

Since the conversation was about real world stuff, nope.

Uh, no, it wasn’t. I specifically mentioned the difference between considering DSC and SNW to be reboots rather than part of the prime timeline which TOS resides in. That’s talking about the fictitious nature of the universe the shows take place in. Are you just being intentionally obtuse? Because if that’s your game here, we don’t have to continue this conversation.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Uh, no, it wasn’t. I specifically mentioned the difference between considering DSC and SNW to be reboots rather than part of the prime timeline which TOS resides in. That’s talking about the fictitious nature of the universe the shows take place in. Are you just being intentionally obtuse? Because if that’s your game here, we don’t have to continue this conversation.

Nah, that comes under real word. The characters in the show don't have an opinion on that. Your opinion on that is real world. CBS/Paramount's decisions about that is real world.

 

[Dukhat]

Nah, that comes under real word. The characters in the show don't have an opinion on that. Your opinion on that is real world. CBS/Paramount's decisions about that is real world.

Whatever, dude. And btw, your constant use of ‘nah’ is quite annoying and condescending. Not that I think that’s going to stop you from using it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Whatever, dude. And btw, your constant use of ‘nah’ is quite annoying and condescending. Not that I think that’s going to stop you from using it.

You are correct, I won't. Though sometimes I use "No" or the classic "Nope", just to mix it up.

 

[fireproof78]

You are correct, I won't. Though sometimes I use "No" or the classic "Nope", just to mix it up.

What about "Not!"?