Growing up with his Dad probably also helped. George Kirk seemed like he was an important factor in how TOS Kirk turned out.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x10 - "A Quality of Mercy"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Growing up with his Dad probably also helped. George Kirk seemed like he was an important factor in how TOS Kirk turned out.
That too. Based off what little we saw of him, George seemed like a great guy and a perfect role model for baby Kirk growing up.
I'm really torn on this episode, because in isolation, it's a great episode of Strange New Worlds that showcases all of the strengths of the series, and provides continued development to Pike's arc.
On the other hand, it's an episode that absolutely did NOT need to be made.
I have little niggles, like how this episode did the same thing that Enterprise did in These Are the Voyages... having a time skip with everyone having the exact same haircuts and no apparent character development over a long period of time. But the big issues with the episode are basically:
1. Paul Wesley is just a generic white guy captain - he doesn't give off Kirk vibes at all. Indeed, I sort of feel like the Sam Kirk scene was added because Wesley didn't sell it enough with his performance.
2. There was absolutely no need to remake Balance of Terror, one of the best, if not the absolute best, episodes of TOS (Personally I like The Doomsday Machine more, but it's arguable). Anything SNW did was not going to look quite as good in comparison, and there were some line-for-line lifts from that script here.
3. Related to point 2, the plot basically requires Pike to look like a chump, since we know that Kirk is supposed to be the one to save the day here. The episode is supposed to be a tragedy of course, but by setting us up in an alternate version of a story we already knew, it almost turns Christopher Pike into Jonathan Archer - someone bumbling his way into disaster, despite his best intentions.
All of this is unfortunate, because the episode gets a good deal of things right as well. I think the brief depiction of the Romulans here was better than what we saw in PIC Season 1, and the Romulan Commander was if anything improved slightly from Balance of Terror. The episode was well shot, directed, acted, had a good character arc for Pike...but ultimately it's just a nostalgia trip, which seems the wrong way to end Season 1, which has been careful to tell new stories centered on the cast.
On the other hand, it's an episode that absolutely did NOT need to be made.
I have little niggles, like how this episode did the same thing that Enterprise did in These Are the Voyages... having a time skip with everyone having the exact same haircuts and no apparent character development over a long period of time. But the big issues with the episode are basically:
1. Paul Wesley is just a generic white guy captain - he doesn't give off Kirk vibes at all. Indeed, I sort of feel like the Sam Kirk scene was added because Wesley didn't sell it enough with his performance.
2. There was absolutely no need to remake Balance of Terror, one of the best, if not the absolute best, episodes of TOS (Personally I like The Doomsday Machine more, but it's arguable). Anything SNW did was not going to look quite as good in comparison, and there were some line-for-line lifts from that script here.
3. Related to point 2, the plot basically requires Pike to look like a chump, since we know that Kirk is supposed to be the one to save the day here. The episode is supposed to be a tragedy of course, but by setting us up in an alternate version of a story we already knew, it almost turns Christopher Pike into Jonathan Archer - someone bumbling his way into disaster, despite his best intentions.
All of this is unfortunate, because the episode gets a good deal of things right as well. I think the brief depiction of the Romulans here was better than what we saw in PIC Season 1, and the Romulan Commander was if anything improved slightly from Balance of Terror. The episode was well shot, directed, acted, had a good character arc for Pike...but ultimately it's just a nostalgia trip, which seems the wrong way to end Season 1, which has been careful to tell new stories centered on the cast.
it did seem odd that Spock knew the details of some minor accident where no one was hurt. I wouldn’t think that would be important for him to know
The 'Pike can't escape his fate" trope is wearing very thin. There is no FATE. The Klingon time crystal is garbage. Yet, in quantum computers "time crystals" have been created. Very geeky stuff there. Pike does not have an immutable fate. No one does. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO PIKE SPOCK PAYS THE PRICE. This is ridiculous. The fabric of the future is always being woven by US. I guess the Norns are in charge now.
Our dreams are where we are forging the future. This is how religions and prayer work. I know I will be assaulted here for saying this and I don't read replies so save your keyboarding. Religions gather people together in central places of worship, usually to engage in rituals of healing, sacrifice, intercessory prayer, fellowship and cultural rituals of birth,marriage and death. The belief is very important. They are creating mind links with one another. Those mind links create a huge force. We almost answer our own prayers. Can we please ditch the time crystals? Has it occurred to anyone that the Klingons are manipulating Pike? Do you REALLY believe that the Monks of Boreth all by themselves control the time crystal because the Klingons obey the rules?
Once again the writers seem to think that they must write down to the level of adolescence.
Una is being held WITHOUT CONTACT? Sounds familiar.
Our dreams are where we are forging the future. This is how religions and prayer work. I know I will be assaulted here for saying this and I don't read replies so save your keyboarding. Religions gather people together in central places of worship, usually to engage in rituals of healing, sacrifice, intercessory prayer, fellowship and cultural rituals of birth,marriage and death. The belief is very important. They are creating mind links with one another. Those mind links create a huge force. We almost answer our own prayers. Can we please ditch the time crystals? Has it occurred to anyone that the Klingons are manipulating Pike? Do you REALLY believe that the Monks of Boreth all by themselves control the time crystal because the Klingons obey the rules?
Once again the writers seem to think that they must write down to the level of adolescence.
Una is being held WITHOUT CONTACT? Sounds familiar.
Hes spock he probably remembers a lot with that big vulcan brain and it only happened less then a year ago
Its not that deep
Indeed. And one of the best scenes is Spock telling Pine Kirk the influence George had. The pain on Kirk's face is intense. So well done.
Yup. That's the only time we study accidents is when people are injured.
He knew about Pike’s accident before it happened, it makes sense that he’d know that Pike managed to avoid it.
This also gives Spock added motivation to help Pike get to Talos. It wasn’t just devotion to his former captain. Pike had spared him from suffering the same fate, he probably felt he owed him some relief from his suffering.
Wow, this Kirk was awful, really bad casting choice. I didn't quite like the episode and I think big part of it was because this frustrating Kirk was distracting me from enjoying it.
Also, I wish they would stop using 20th and 21th century expressions. They do it in Orville as well. "set my foot on the gas"? really?
Anyway, I have mixed feelings for SNW. Yes it is a prequel and half of the characters are TOS, but I would so much love to tone down the TOS references. Just use your own new aliens, your own new enemies and stories. It is not about canon, it's about lazy writing and fan service I guess.
And Kirk.. they should had kept Kirk for the last scene of the very last episode. He was so awful, no charisma at all.
SNW has an amazing cast. The writing though...
Still, a pleasant 1st season, not the greatest 1st ST season though. Since I am currently watching TOS for the first time since I was a child, best 1st season still belongs to TOS. IMHO of course.
Also, I wish they would stop using 20th and 21th century expressions. They do it in Orville as well. "set my foot on the gas"? really?
Anyway, I have mixed feelings for SNW. Yes it is a prequel and half of the characters are TOS, but I would so much love to tone down the TOS references. Just use your own new aliens, your own new enemies and stories. It is not about canon, it's about lazy writing and fan service I guess.
And Kirk.. they should had kept Kirk for the last scene of the very last episode. He was so awful, no charisma at all.
SNW has an amazing cast. The writing though...
Still, a pleasant 1st season, not the greatest 1st ST season though. Since I am currently watching TOS for the first time since I was a child, best 1st season still belongs to TOS. IMHO of course.
One of the most common hypotheses in physics now is the "block universe" idea. Essentially the universe is a four-dimensional block, with one of the dimensions being time. We move forward through time due to how our consciousness works, but we don't actually make choices, because the future is as determined as the past is.
I agree that age and the presence of George Kirk probably greatly changed Kirk in the Prime timeline. I also have always assumed that Pine's Kirk never had to deal with Tarsus IV, which forced Prime Kirk to grow up more quickly.
Mostly, I'm glad this Kirk was calm and irritated at Pike not taking the risk.... I never felt like he was a "generic white guy captain." He felt like Kirk to me. I think bastardization of Kirk into some Han Solo wannabe sets people's expectations into wanting the wrong character. This Kirk was exactly right for who Kirk actually was.
Time is a flat circle.
I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know if someone's mentioned this: but Admiral Pike visiting Captain Pike reminded me of Admiral Janeway visiting Captain Janeway in "Endgame". There's even an Endgame for SNW: Pike has his destiny and Kirk ends up in command of the Enterprise.
But there are two things here:
1) We don't know how Number One ends up, so I think her fate will be changed.
2) I don't think Pike on Talos IV is the end of his story. We don't know what happens to him after "The Menagerie". So they can do something there, eventually.
But there are two things here:
1) We don't know how Number One ends up, so I think her fate will be changed.
2) I don't think Pike on Talos IV is the end of his story. We don't know what happens to him after "The Menagerie". So they can do something there, eventually.
To be fair you're conflating two definitions of that word.
Probably.
...but what we make for ourselves.
It really depends on the setting, or the writer.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll