Cis actors enjoy far too much cis privilege. Lets stop casting cis actors in new roles forever so that we can just focus on trans and enby actors. 
What does this even mean?
What does this even mean?
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x07 - "The Serene Squall"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
A
Amaris
Guest
Sybok.
[ nods in vindication ]
Fantastic episode!
[ nods in vindication ]
Fantastic episode!
I already posted earlier on this thread how I want T'Pring to be handled. I want her ghosting Spock and I want Spock and the audience to get the full force of "What did I do wrong?" confusion but Spock does the right thing and does not press any further, as a real life role model on how to handle situations when you're suddenly ghosted and don't know what you did wrong. This would also serve as Trek's rebuke to all the real life criminals who justify crimes from being ignored and unable to get a date, by showing how Spock handles such things the right way.
So I have already seen stuff on reddit like poor nurse chapel. like we have been saying this for like 56 years now.
Chapel is going to go through phases. I do think she and spock will date and explore something but Spock will end it. she will be heart broken and we will see her explore her bi sexuality , then get engaged to roger with real love there, however she never got over spock and that is why things are that way in TOS.
and the messiness, this is the part that worries me because it all smells of CW level writing and on a given day that is Kurtzman level of talent.
"Rebonding ritual" is the Vulcan term for "make up sex".
Got to be careful of those Vulcans. They act all stoic and straight laced on the surface but deep down, they are wild and kinky.
A Vulcan euphemism. The term also allows for social respectability when Vulcans, that have been paired together by their parents, engage in premarital sex.
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Sounds like real life to me.
Remy: Lord Sybok, how is capturing tardigrades going to help take us to the center of the galaxy?
Sybok:
(Star Trek 5 cut post credits scene)
Kirk: Spock, what do you mean I can't file a report on this incident to Starfleet? The spore drive technology that Sybok used to get us to the center of the galaxy will revolutionize space travel!
Scotty: Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.
Spock: Forget! (forcibly mind melds with Kirk to make him forget the entire incident, other Enterprise crew scream as Spock chases them as well to mindwipe them too)
Sybok:
(Star Trek 5 cut post credits scene)
Kirk: Spock, what do you mean I can't file a report on this incident to Starfleet? The spore drive technology that Sybok used to get us to the center of the galaxy will revolutionize space travel!
Scotty: Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.
Spock: Forget! (forcibly mind melds with Kirk to make him forget the entire incident, other Enterprise crew scream as Spock chases them as well to mindwipe them too)
I meant in all tv and movies. It gets a little unrealistic of society.
If Sybok is supposed to be a standin for today's real life religious fanatics, then I don't think he'd be anywhere near a non-binary person like Capt. Angel much less be in a relationship with them. In which case I think Trek is missing the opportunity to showcase that religion is often used as a cover for bigotry.
A #$#@! 10.
I loved this one front to back; and I REALLY enjoyed the "Pirate Angel" character and the Orion Pirates.
This is something I don't think TNG could have pulled off in ant way in the Berman era and this really highlights the differences between 'by the numbers' plots of the TNG and what they did here.
All the characters are distinct and have very defined (and used by the writing staff) personalities that they play to, and the writers and actors used that to full effect here in this episode.
I LOVED the scene between T'Pring and Spock at the start of the episode; and Ethan Peck played 'uncomfortable Spock' perfectly. Gia Sandhu as T'Pring is also wonderful and he really does a deadpan Vulcan so well - and both of them have great comedic timing across all their scenes when its appropriate. It's also interesting we get to se Stonn (who also seems to be a staff member at the rehabilitation colony and works with T'Pring.) I also was surprised to see them working Sybok in to the character arc storyline for Spock here on SNW; and I'm curious to see where and how far they'll take it.
With everything they're putting Spock through here with Pike and Co.; its obvious in 10 years or so why he decides to clam up about any personal aspects of his life/culture when Kirk and Co. hit the scene as logically divulging any personal info only causes him absolutely nothing but trouble.
I didn't see the ruse coming at all until they got to Engineering and as soon as Spock released the lockout and Chapel was saying hey, everything's being re-routed to the Bridge. That was a great character, and this may be the first time that the 1701 was captured by a protagonist that WASN'T implicitly helped by say, a Starfleet Captain giving someone he doesn't know full access to the ship's tech manuals.
Even the fight scenes and fight choreography have a style and an energy I really haven't seen much since TOS. Spock cut loose on the Bridge and they didn't have one physically powerful character stop him (in the way they always have someone beating up Worf in most TNG takeover scenarios from that era.) Spock was going to town and downing various Pirates right and left before he got to the Turbolift.
The interplay and interaction between Spock and Nurse Chapel was great as well - and you see the germination of Chapel starting to fall in a bad way for Spock here, I also loved how she was able to take out the Pirates going after her; and got to Engineering before Spock did. (I also liked that no, she didn't know how to override the ship's systems lockout.)
I also LOVED how Pike and the senior officers confined on the Pirate ship got themselves out of trouble. Pike getting concessions from the Pirates via their stomachs was great - as was the "lets see if we can get them to mutiny amongst themselves..." and that it worked (Hey after PLENTY of ridiculous 'Enterprise takeover' episode scenarios from TOS through ENT -- it was nice to see that a Federation crew and Captain can get a ridiculous ship takeover scenario to work for them too.
The ending to that whole scenario was marvelous too in that I loved the entire:
Pike: "Um, yeah, we may have taken over the Bridge a bit early while the mutiny is still in progress...Can you get us out of here quick?!"
And yes, there are nits to pick in that I agree that the shot with the 1701 in very close range of the Pirate ship; but La'an saying "No, they haven't detected us yet...we're still out of their sensor range was flat out ridiculous.
But still the whole thing was so face paced, entertaining and enjoyable (with all the various character interactions including the Pirate Angel; that I really don't care about the nits at all.
So yeah - 10 from me.
(And yep, in STV:TFF - Spock tells Kirk about his brother Sybok; but still keeps everything about his murderous sister in law to himself...Classic Spock
-- and yes, don't come after me with the "Hey that wasn't written/known so..." as I'm well aware...just having some fun here.
I also have to applaud Akiva and Co. for faking out us TOS nerds as yeah, given the clip from this episode used in the early teasers weeks before the series premiered; nearly everyone (myself included) thought what we now know is a 'Pirate Net' was a Tholian Web <--- And yes, they KNEW that's what the majority of us would think too when viewing that snippet. -- Well played sir!
)
I loved this one front to back; and I REALLY enjoyed the "Pirate Angel" character and the Orion Pirates.
This is something I don't think TNG could have pulled off in ant way in the Berman era and this really highlights the differences between 'by the numbers' plots of the TNG and what they did here.
All the characters are distinct and have very defined (and used by the writing staff) personalities that they play to, and the writers and actors used that to full effect here in this episode.
I LOVED the scene between T'Pring and Spock at the start of the episode; and Ethan Peck played 'uncomfortable Spock' perfectly. Gia Sandhu as T'Pring is also wonderful and he really does a deadpan Vulcan so well - and both of them have great comedic timing across all their scenes when its appropriate. It's also interesting we get to se Stonn (who also seems to be a staff member at the rehabilitation colony and works with T'Pring.) I also was surprised to see them working Sybok in to the character arc storyline for Spock here on SNW; and I'm curious to see where and how far they'll take it.
With everything they're putting Spock through here with Pike and Co.; its obvious in 10 years or so why he decides to clam up about any personal aspects of his life/culture when Kirk and Co. hit the scene as logically divulging any personal info only causes him absolutely nothing but trouble.
I didn't see the ruse coming at all until they got to Engineering and as soon as Spock released the lockout and Chapel was saying hey, everything's being re-routed to the Bridge. That was a great character, and this may be the first time that the 1701 was captured by a protagonist that WASN'T implicitly helped by say, a Starfleet Captain giving someone he doesn't know full access to the ship's tech manuals.
Even the fight scenes and fight choreography have a style and an energy I really haven't seen much since TOS. Spock cut loose on the Bridge and they didn't have one physically powerful character stop him (in the way they always have someone beating up Worf in most TNG takeover scenarios from that era.) Spock was going to town and downing various Pirates right and left before he got to the Turbolift.
The interplay and interaction between Spock and Nurse Chapel was great as well - and you see the germination of Chapel starting to fall in a bad way for Spock here, I also loved how she was able to take out the Pirates going after her; and got to Engineering before Spock did. (I also liked that no, she didn't know how to override the ship's systems lockout.)
I also LOVED how Pike and the senior officers confined on the Pirate ship got themselves out of trouble. Pike getting concessions from the Pirates via their stomachs was great - as was the "lets see if we can get them to mutiny amongst themselves..." and that it worked (Hey after PLENTY of ridiculous 'Enterprise takeover' episode scenarios from TOS through ENT -- it was nice to see that a Federation crew and Captain can get a ridiculous ship takeover scenario to work for them too.
The ending to that whole scenario was marvelous too in that I loved the entire:
Pike: "Um, yeah, we may have taken over the Bridge a bit early while the mutiny is still in progress...Can you get us out of here quick?!"
And yes, there are nits to pick in that I agree that the shot with the 1701 in very close range of the Pirate ship; but La'an saying "No, they haven't detected us yet...we're still out of their sensor range was flat out ridiculous.
But still the whole thing was so face paced, entertaining and enjoyable (with all the various character interactions including the Pirate Angel; that I really don't care about the nits at all.
So yeah - 10 from me.
(And yep, in STV:TFF - Spock tells Kirk about his brother Sybok; but still keeps everything about his murderous sister in law to himself...Classic Spock
-- and yes, don't come after me with the "Hey that wasn't written/known so..." as I'm well aware...just having some fun here.I also have to applaud Akiva and Co. for faking out us TOS nerds as yeah, given the clip from this episode used in the early teasers weeks before the series premiered; nearly everyone (myself included) thought what we now know is a 'Pirate Net' was a Tholian Web <--- And yes, they KNEW that's what the majority of us would think too when viewing that snippet. -- Well played sir!
)
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T'Pring is trying so hard, bless her heart. Maybe he's worried the whole human business will be fetishized somehow? Also, the kiss with Chapel was very passionate in appearance and the kiss between him and T'Pring at the end noticeably less so (or more Vulcanish maybe). I sure wish these crazy kids could work it out somehow. Because I love them so much.
Sorry might I strongly suggest you rewatch TOS because nothing you state is ever said to be so in Trek.
Valden there is no dialogue ever stating that Uhura only served with Kirk, in fact TOS makes no mention of her career with Starfleet at all.
Now onto "The Menagerie I and II, your statement, "She had no reaction seeing Pike in TOS" is utterly without merit.
Lets look at the Menagerie (I & II), we discover Spock faked everything, starting with the original message.
Kirk states, "Mister Spock received a starbase transmission, a message from the former commander of the Enterprise, Fleet Captain Pike, urgently requesting that we divert here." That's Spock not Uhura. We also quickly learn that Pike couldn't have sent that message something McCoy dn Kirk are unaware of that, that Pike has been in an accident and can no longer use language to communicate.
Mendez mentions some subspace chatter but its not widespread information, so its very possible that Uhura has no knowledge at this point of Pike's accident or condition or that he is on the Starbase.
We know Pike isn't taking visitors, Mendez goes against his wishes to even bring Kirk, Spock and McCoy to see if he would make an exception. He states no, only direct appeal from Spock lets Spock get time with him.
There is no information that ever states that the crew is made aware that Pike is on that Starbase outside of those three people who had direct contact with him. Period.
Spock then maneuvers the crew to take command and go on a clandestine mission. McCoy is brought aboard, without giving knowledge about why or who is injured. Pike is then beamed aboard. We don't see this, and we don't see who performs the transport or escorts him to quarters. Now lets even assume this isn't done by Spock (even though technically it absolutely could all be done by Spock). If it was a transporter officer who beamed him up, how would they know that person is Pike? Again not common knowledge nor can Pike speak to identify himself. They would have to be told who it is. And there is literally no reason Spock would volunteer this as its not necessary.
McCoy states to Spock on the bridge, "And this call about me being needed aboard the ship. I've checked everywhere"
That indicates that no one is sharing information about a someone who might need medical attention being onboard. Which gives credence that either Spock handled the direct transfer of Pike to the Enterprise and his quarters or ordered those that did to not relay any information about it (one other final possibility is that McCoy is utterly crap at looking everywhere, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here).
We know the original orders Spock fakes informs Uhura and the Lt Hansen, who appears to be the officer on duty on the bridge that the mission is top Secret. That the crew is not to be informed and that the orders are fed directly to the chips computers and not given to either Hansen or Uhura.
This is where Spock takes McCoy to see his new charge. And this point Uhura should have no reason to believe or suspect that Pike was on Starbase and is now on the Enterprise.
When McCoy discovers Pike, Spock provides again fake orders from Kirk, "Kirk to Doctor McCoy. I'm recording you this message, Bones, so there will be no misunderstanding. I'm sorry to have to make it an order. You're not to disturb Captain Pike with any questions. Simply take good care of him. Follow Spock's instructions to the letter. Kirk out." There is no reason at this stage that the crew outside of McCoy (or in case of medical emergency other medical staff) would be told about Pike.
Later Spock stops the Enterprise and has the shuttle with Kirk and fake Mendez tractor into the ship and orders security to the bridge and offers himself up for arrest. This scene is the last scene with Uhura, we get a few times were she relays messages (her voice as she is offscreen).
Now once Kirk comes aboard, and Pike is shown to at least move between the trial and his quarters and (we see security guards, a crew person handling the recorder, and Scotty present as well, we can assume that it becomes known that Pike is now aboard the Enterprise.
But we never see any reaction by any of the 423 other crew members that weren't previously aware that Pike was there. Please tell me your rational enough that just because we don't see it that it doesn't mean it could have happened. After all they are days away and we don't see Uhura at all during any of this time, do you assume she didn't have any reaction about what happened to Pike or try to see him. That since the last time we saw her she on the bridge that she just sat there for days and nothing ever happened to her outside of the four times we hear her voice?
Now since Pike wasn't having visitors on Starbase, Uhura might not have been granted access to see him, that's consistent with what little dialogue we have, but that again doesn't mean she didn't have a reaction to the news of his accident the state of his being or that he was on board, when that news became more common on ship. Its utterly ridiculous to assume this events couldn't have happened. Utterly ridiculous.
On to Chapel, there is no dialogue that indicates Chapel joined up to search for her fiancé. Period. The only statement EVER made from Kirk, "I understand you gave up a career in bio-research to sign aboard a starship".
Doesn't state what starship or when it occurred, or if it had anything to do with Roger. We only know she gave up a career (a job) to serve on a starship.
The only other aspects of her past is that at some point (and we don't know when) she was a student of Kirby. We don' know if this was earlier in her scientific studies or much later. We know she hadn't been in contact with him for 5 years, we know people know where his research was being done at, and that multiple expeditions had not found any trace of them. And we know he was her fiancé. And at the end of the episode we learn she is staying with the ship.
People use that ending line and the gave up a career to serve on a ship as the basis to the conjecture that she joined to look for Roger. But it is still only conjecture. Literally Chapel is staying with he ship might just mean she's not taking personal leave to deal with the death or her fiancé.
Judging a show by conjecture is utterly irrational. Now most of us (myself absolutely included) have of course wanted to enrich the universe we love and feel in the blanks, but a reasoned person should understand that itsconjecture and the conjecture of others even if over the decades and assumed to be fact, doesn't make it so.
It's as utterly irrational as those fans in '82 who complained that Chekov couldn't have known Khan (and the reverse) because Chekov wasn't part of the crew in season 1. When in fact anyone with even a modicum of rational thought should understand that we have no knowledge of when Mister Chekov joined the crew, we only know when Koenig started portraying the character of Chekov. Which is a vastly different fact.
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Yeah that is becoming clear to me too. Just don't talk about any of it. Clean break. Fresh start. Blank slate. Etc. Then Chapel shows up again as a member of the crew. Yikes.With everything they're putting Spock through here with Pike and Co.; its obvious in 10 years or so why he decides to clam up about any personal aspects of his life/culture when Kirk and Co. hit the scene as logically divulging any personal info only causes him absolutely nothing but trouble.
^^^
I don't see it as a retcon. Captain Christopher Pike is considered the "Best Example" of a Federation Starship Captain. They stated as much in STD S2; and continue it here with Una mentioning the fact many see him as a proverbial 'Boy Scout', that it's mentioned in his official Starfleet record.
My point; The 1701 could definitely be considered "The Flagship of the Federation" while commanded by Captain Christopher Pike; yet have that designation removed and moved to another ship when a new and as yet untested Captain Kirk assumes command of the ship from Pike.
So yeah, no retcon here.
My wife was listening while she was doing other things while I was watching. She asked me I was watching a cartoon. I asked her why? She said the voice (Angel's) just was too fake and cartoony. I then agreed.
I gave this one an 8. Loved the stuff on Enterprise. Capt Angel was a great character. All the scenes with Spock, Chapel, T'Pring, and Angel were great. The stuff on the pirate ship was just OK. I thought the pirates captured the Enterprise way too easily. I really love Chapel as a character and Jess Bush portrayal is just perfect...
I mean, Star Trek never uses flagship correctly anyway so the change of this designation is a literal non-issue. Likely moved to the Lexington with Commodore Wesley.^^^
I don't see it as a retcon. Captain Christopher Pike is considered the "Best Example" of a Federation Starship Captain. They stated as much in STD S2; and continue it here with Una mentioning the fact many see him as a proverbial 'Boy Scout', that it's mentioned in his official Starfleet record.
My point; The 1701 could definitely be considered "The Flagship of the Federation" while commanded by Captain Christopher Pike; yet have that designation removed and moved to another ship when a new and as yet untested Captain Kirk assumes command of the ship from Pike.
So yeah, no retcon here.
GR considered aspects of STII:TWoK (it was too 'militaristic'), and STIII:TSFS apocryphal too (Because they destroyed the 1701 which GR then tried to claim was also a 'major character'
)Declaring various aspects of post TOS Star Trek apocryphal seemed to become a pastime for Gene Roddenberry in the later years of his life.
Fans carry on this proud tradition to this day. I move that we change "nitpicking" to "Roddenberring."GR considered aspects of STII:TWoK (it was too 'militaristic'), and STIII:TSFS apocryphal too (Because they destroyed the 1701 which GR then tried to claim was also a 'major character'
Declaring various aspects of post TOS Star Trek apocryphal seemed to become a pastime for Gene Roddenberry in the later years of his life.
I really enjoyed this episode and will watch it more than once. So far the only episode I probably won’t rewatch was the one that aired last week with the child hooked up to the computer.
I enjoyed Pike’s pirate routine and incitement to mutiny. Let’s find some way to save him from that wheelchair, please.
A T’Pring who really tries to make the relationship work and gives a damn is something of a revelation. I find myself wishing for an alternate universe where she and Spock stay together.
That said, I also wish for an alternate universe where Christine Chapel and Spock make a go of it. Christine is pretty much a totally different character here than in the original series but tough, vulnerable and funny. I’m glad to see her given more to do.
i wasn’t sure what to make of Captain Angel/Aspen but decided the character was an alien of some sort anf possibly Bajoran. Prison is probably an appropriate place for Sybok. Based on his back story, his mother was Sarek’s childhood betrothed and they broke it off when she decided to become a temple priestess. She or her family apparently raised Sybok. Apparently betrothed Vulcan couples routinely “court” as T’Pring and Spock are doing in order to make sure they are compatible. Sybok was apparently conceived before his mother decided she was not compatible with Sarek.
I enjoyed Pike’s pirate routine and incitement to mutiny. Let’s find some way to save him from that wheelchair, please.
A T’Pring who really tries to make the relationship work and gives a damn is something of a revelation. I find myself wishing for an alternate universe where she and Spock stay together.
That said, I also wish for an alternate universe where Christine Chapel and Spock make a go of it. Christine is pretty much a totally different character here than in the original series but tough, vulnerable and funny. I’m glad to see her given more to do.
i wasn’t sure what to make of Captain Angel/Aspen but decided the character was an alien of some sort anf possibly Bajoran. Prison is probably an appropriate place for Sybok. Based on his back story, his mother was Sarek’s childhood betrothed and they broke it off when she decided to become a temple priestess. She or her family apparently raised Sybok. Apparently betrothed Vulcan couples routinely “court” as T’Pring and Spock are doing in order to make sure they are compatible. Sybok was apparently conceived before his mother decided she was not compatible with Sarek.