The titles are one of my favourite bits of Kurtztrek. They always remind me of the likes of BSG's "Kobal's Last Gleaming" which is such a beautiful title
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x06 - "Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
The whole, Pike is lame because Kirk would have destroyed the machine argument does not make much sense to me.
In Kirk's encounter, the machine is the thing killing everyone. Destroy the machine, and you are (hopefully) saving lives. At least in the long run.
In Pike's, the machine is SAVING lives. Destroy it, and the whole planet goes.
Of course, the idea that they don't have backup First Servants, just in case, is kind of ridiculous, yes?
In Kirk's encounter, the machine is the thing killing everyone. Destroy the machine, and you are (hopefully) saving lives. At least in the long run.
In Pike's, the machine is SAVING lives. Destroy it, and the whole planet goes.
Of course, the idea that they don't have backup First Servants, just in case, is kind of ridiculous, yes?
I gave it a 8. SNW has hit this odd plateau in terms of episode quality, having established so many good episodes that this one doesn't stand out in terms of quality.
like many I'm left unsettled by the conclusion, though I think its interesting also. Compare this with TOS "A taste of Armageddon", which is also a civilization that subsists on the sacrifice of innocents (And also not a federation member). Kirk has been criticized for interfering in a culture's affairs out of morality, upending an entire civilization because it upset him personally. Pike has the similar chance, but rather than destroy the apparatus perpetuating the abuse, he leaves the culture as it is with head hung low. So were presented with Pike making the "right decision" here, but were all left unsettled with the result. So whats proper, interfering with other cultures on the basis of morality, or leave them to perpetuate their practices even if we find them distasteful?
I'm late to the party but did anyone else notice the chair that takes the first servant is modeled after the torture chair from Dagger of the mind? the ceiling mount is even behind the boy's head.
Reminds me of other long TOS titles which were occasionally quotes.
like many I'm left unsettled by the conclusion, though I think its interesting also. Compare this with TOS "A taste of Armageddon", which is also a civilization that subsists on the sacrifice of innocents (And also not a federation member). Kirk has been criticized for interfering in a culture's affairs out of morality, upending an entire civilization because it upset him personally. Pike has the similar chance, but rather than destroy the apparatus perpetuating the abuse, he leaves the culture as it is with head hung low. So were presented with Pike making the "right decision" here, but were all left unsettled with the result. So whats proper, interfering with other cultures on the basis of morality, or leave them to perpetuate their practices even if we find them distasteful?
I'm late to the party but did anyone else notice the chair that takes the first servant is modeled after the torture chair from Dagger of the mind? the ceiling mount is even behind the boy's head.
Reminds me of other long TOS titles which were occasionally quotes.
"The City on the Edge of Forever" and “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” are two lovely titles.
They are using what could have been a problem with Pikes future really well so far.
Same for me. It's a big no-no and remains so. Besides, I prefer the clarity of unsplit infinitives. My writing is set in the late 17th century, so there's a certain formality to the language used. It's not strictly adhered to, but we eschew modern colloquialisms and pop culture references. Split infinitives? Nope.
Pike would have interfered, even tried to, but he was overpowered and prevented by the guards. By the time the child was integrated into the chair it was too late to do anything about it.
I'm not saying that all Star Trek episodes need happy endings. Indeed, some of the best episodes are ones that don't, Yesterday's Enterprise comes to mind as well.
Kirk didn't always intervene, but he often intervened in situations where societies became dependent on technology to an absurd degree, which is what is definitely happening here. Think Landru, Vaal, the Eymorg, or Yonada. Same thing here. These people are dependent on this machine to keep living on their world, and are seemingly unable and/or unwilling to develop an alternative despite being more advanced than the "primitive" Federation. Pike's lady friend tried to find an alternative but couldn't, so now she's all in for the ascension. So much for perseverance. Also, we're operating from the assumption that what she's saying about the machine being so crucial is true. She lied before about the colony, so why would we assume she being truthful about this device's purpose. These people have deified this technology, I wouldn't be surprised if they started believing myths that this machine was built to be operated this exact way and that it is the only solution to thier problem. If they bowed down and prayed to it at this point, it would just be a formality. This kind of worship of technology always seem to be a bugbear to Kirk, so yes I would say he would have intervened. Would he have been successful, who's to say, but he had a pretty good track record in dealing with this on The Original Series.
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Unlikely. Based on the episode and all.I’m sure the kid is okay.
Yeah tell that to the charred corpse of his predecessor.I’m sure the kid is okay.
I choose to believe a novel will be written in 20 years where the planet is threatened by the kids in the machine.
I'm pretty sure that in those examples of Kirk interfering the ship and the entire crew were in danger. That was his first responsibility and his primary motive. A lot of the moral justifications came later. In this episode the Enterprise was in no danger. AT ALL. None of the crew were in danger (not even him) - and yet he still tried to save the kid, intended to go immediately and save the kid after he regains consciousness. But there is no point now. The child will die either way.
Landru and Vaal were direct threats, but the Controller and Oracle were not. To be fair, in the case of the Oracle, the Yonada was on a collision course with a populated planet. However, it never proved to be much of a threat to Enterprise, even when it fired missiles at the ship.
Landru - Kirk's primary motivation was to save the ship. Landru brought down the USS Archon and had heat beams being directed at it from the surface, and it was taking all the ship's power to deflect. If they tried to leave orbit, they would be destroyed.
Baal - Same situation as Landru above. Kirk destroyed Baal to save the ship from destruction. That was his primary reason (They tried to beam back to the ship after the first Redshirt death but couldn't.)
the Eymorg - Kirk only did what he did because it was the only way to get Spock's Brain returned.
Yonanda - Kirk was at first only interfering because the asteroid ship's course was going to cause it to collide with an inhabitants Federation world (Darrin V). In fact Star Fleet ordered him to leave and said he was relieved of all responsibility for the Worldship, AND HE WAS ABOUT TO, when McCoy called with more information and a possible way to get the Worldship back on course. (And if The Oracle had allowed them access after Kirk told it the situation, he would not have disabled it.) But here, Kirk's motivation was saving Darrin V from a collision.
So. yeah, none of your prime examples contradict what I stated WRT the main reason why Kirk usually intervenes.
I cut it off at the end. I’m sure Pike rescued him
Sure.
My wonder is would pike have destroyed the machine and doomed the Majalan high civilization to destruction. Even though the child was lost, no more children would be fed to the machine.
I think Kirk would have gone to that degree, based on examples like Armageddon and Archons. He can't abide a civilization that subsists on the suffering of its people, as prosperous as that civilization might be. But this ep holds up the argument that noninterference is the proper decision, otherwise there would be hints that the kid could be saved.
Yeah I just acknowledged that Landru and Vaal were direct threats, and that Yonada was more a threat to a populated world than to the Enterprise. And we all know the story of Spock's Brain. Nevertheless, Kirk's interventions didn't usually end only with the safety of the ship and its crew ensured. They usually left a dramatic and permanent change on the societies presented in the episode, now that their "computer god" had been destroyed.