Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Farscape One]

The Doctor is not a doctor? Are you sure you have actually seen VOYAGER? I'm not going to continue this ridiculous discussion about The Doctor in a timeline that no longer occured with you anymore.

McCoy would have to stand down if Boyce came back? That would only occur if McCoy received orders that say that.

As far as Chapel is concerned, I have no idea. I only know McCoy said she's an 'M.D. now', not necessarily CMO. Keep in mind the Enterprise has had at least two doctors aboard in the past... remember M'Benga? The refit Enterprise almost certainly would have two doctors at the minimum.

 

[Oddish]

*sigh*

When Tom and B'Elanna are arguing in "Lineage", regarding whether to genetically alter Miral, Janeway doesn't tell them that B'Elanna's in charge because it's her body. She doesn't declare that Tom's in charge because he's the "man of the house". She has them settle it themselves because she recognizes them as a partnership of equals.

Maybe that's how Kes and Van Gogh were, too.

 

[Guy Gardener]

*sigh*

When Tom and B'Elanna are arguing in "Lineage", regarding whether to genetically alter Miral, Janeway doesn't tell them that B'Elanna's in charge because it's her body. She doesn't declare that Tom's in charge because he's the "man of the house". She has them settle it themselves because she recognizes them as a partnership of equals.

Maybe that's how Kes and Van Gogh were, too.

Underhanded B'Elanna went behind Tom's back and tried to the to do the Genetic reassignment anyway.

By that rational, Kes would go into the Doctor and make back door, that he always agrees with her decisions.

By the way, B'elanna hasn't been Klingon since the beginning of season one.

She is fully human with a Klingon graft to keep her healthy.

Her kid should be human, and the only reason her kid isn't human is if the Doctor already genetically modified her into a hybrid, or gave her a graft, but regardless, either way, The Klingons from "prophecy" looking for the cure to their plague from the chosen one magic baby should have noticed that Miral was not Klingon.

Does a plane's autopilot have a pilot's license?

I was wondering yesterday if Kes got her medical degree before the Doctor was restablished on her own, or after he came back and the Doctor was her teacher?

No medical degree for Kes, when the Doctor comes back means that the Doctor is the CMO again immediately.

 

[at Quark's]

Who on board would have the knowledge and (medical) authority to determine Kes has the equivalent of a (Starfleet) medical degree at a certain point in time, if it's not the EMH? In the Before and After future, it doesn't look like they re-established contact with Starfleet.

 

[Oddish]

Does a plane's autopilot have a pilot's license?

No. But in this case, the autopilot is regarded as a person by the pilot and the crew. So because it's onsidered a person and it's capable of flying the plane, it doesn't need a license to be accepted as a pilot.

No medical degree for Kes, when the Doctor comes back means that the Doctor is the CMO again immediately.

No way to know when exactly Kes was certified as a physician in the B&A timeline. And I don't worry about it too much, first for reasons I just stated. Second because the end result was most relevant. And third because it never happened, because why would we get a dynamic future that took most of the characters in exciting new directions when we could have a painfully static one where they didn't even bother promoting an ensign to lieutenant?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Who on board would have the knowledge and (medical) authority to determine Kes has the equivalent of a (Starfleet) medical degree at a certain point in time, if it's not the EMH? In the Before and After future, it doesn't look like they re-established contact with Starfleet.

Danara Pel.

There's a restore point on file.

They wake her up, and then Danara has 6 days to teach Kes until her program falls apart.

Hit the restore point and then they have another 6 days.

Sotra like 50 first dates, or that Timeloop of Stargate where O'Niel has 20 minutes to learn Goul'd.

 

[at Quark's]

Danara Pel.

There's a restore point on file.

They wake her up, and then Danara has 6 days to teach Kes until her program falls apart.

Hit the restore point and then they have another 6 days.

Sotra like 50 first dates, or that Timeloop of Stargate where O'Niel has 20 minutes to learn Goul'd.

That's an interesting idea.

But, if the ship is so heavily damaged that they can't get the EMH online, which I would imagine to have much better safeguards, and restore points, and what-have-you than a random backup of a program they wouldn't expect to need anymore, odds are they can't access that either.

Unless those Krenim attacks perhaps were specifically aimed at the EMH. Or just pure bad luck.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That's an interesting idea.

But, if the ship is so heavily damaged that they can't get the EMH online, which I would imagine to have much better safeguards, and restore points, and what-have-you than a random backup of a program they wouldn't expect to need anymore, odds are they can't access that either.

Unless those Krenim attacks perhaps were specifically aimed at the EMH. Or just pure bad luck.

The holodeck and the Sick bay are separate systems, and the holodecks or each holodeck has a separate power source that is incompatiable with the rest of the ship, also the Doctor requires integrated hardware to work which happens to be half of the tech stuffed into the walls of Sickbay.

By episode 5 he's on an away mission to a holodeck but when the crew almost abandons ship in episode 7, the Doctor can't follow, because he is the ship... Or at least he is several wheelbarrows of technology, that the crew are too lazy to take to Romulan Space. The mobile emitter changed that. After the emitter he can exist as pure code.

Danara is pure code, and unless she is the Doctor's 6 day lover, she was probably not stored in the Sickbay servers. There are two holodecks, and each probably has their own server. So she has a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the damage that removed the Doctor from play for nine months.

Oh, one thought is that the reason there are no Borg in the before and After Timeline is that the Krenim Imperium took them out. they killed Seven of Nine, and Captain Chuckles has to go to sleep every night clasping a luke warm hot water bottle.

 

[at Quark's]

Well yes, they have a separate power source, but there's no indication the problem is with the power sources. In Before and After, at the time the Doctor is offline they also say the main computer has been offline for weeks and they therefore also have no way to access the sensor logs. So I'd rather think the problem was with the computer system than with the separate energy systems. And if it's with the computer system, I see no reason to assume why one (Sickbay) would be affected, but not the other (Holodeck). Unless they have completely separate and redundant computer systems for different parts of the ship as well.

It's also interesting to note that they should have had the mobile emitter at that point (Future's End took place before Before and After) but that still didn't help them. Perhaps the damage was so sudden and unexpected they didn't even have time to transfer the EMH to the mobile emitter?

 

[Guy Gardener]

CHAKOTAY: What about the ship?
KIM: Starboard shield generators and warp drive are offline, and power is down on decks four through twelve.

Futures End only happened because Braxton found hull debris From Voyager in the wake of Starling blowing up the 29th century, and regular timeline Voyager only survived that because the Doctor had a mobile emitter and helped Janeway manually load a torpedo.

No mobile emitter means that Janeway didn't launch the torpedo and Starling didn't blow up the 30th century so Braxton never went back to get them. Paradox.

 

[at Quark's]

Blame the Federation dink who included said vivisectionist's sick research in the EMH"s program.

I'd say, the dink that included said vivisectionist's sick research in the Federation data banks, period. The reason they are creating the Moset hologram in the first place is that the EMH doesn't have said research within his program. Of course, the EMH could have far more efficiently issued a command to upload said information into his own database (and perhaps temporarily dump some other information he won't be needing in short order to make room for it), and no Bajoran crewmen probably would ever have found out and protested against it, but oh well.

 

[jackoverfull]

Who on board would have the knowledge and (medical) authority to determine Kes has the equivalent of a (Starfleet) medical degree at a certain point in time, if it's not the EMH? In the Before and After future, it doesn't look like they re-established contact with Starfleet.

I think they did, as the provisional ranks are no longer provisional. Only a guess, though.
But yes, Guy is posting nonsense even more than his quite high nonsense standards in this topic.

Danara Pel.

There's a restore point on file.

They wake her up, and then Danara has 6 days to teach Kes until her program falls apart.

Hit the restore point and then they have another 6 days.

Sotra like 50 first dates, or that Timeloop of Stargate where O'Niel has 20 minutes to learn Goul'd.

As far as I remember Danara was not a hologram, the holographic image was linked to her brain at all times. Anyway, still irrelevant.

Oh, one thought is that the reason there are no Borg in the before and After Timeline is that the Krenim Imperium took them out. they killed Seven of Nine, and Captain Chuckles has to go to sleep every night clasping a luke warm hot water bottle.

There is no mention of the borg in that episode, as they were irrelevant to the situation. It could have gone in plenty of ways.

 

[Guy Gardener]

KES: What are we doing exactly?
EMH: Transferring the patient's synaptic patterns into the holo-buffer before they degrade completely.
KES: Is there enough storage capacity in the holo-matrix for such complex data patterns?
EMH: There's enough capacity for my programme, isn't there? And my programme contains over fifty million gigaquads of data, which I don't have to tell you is considerably more than most highly developed humanoid brains.
KES: What good is preserving her synaptic patterns if there's no body?

Transferring and preserving her brain on the holobuffer as the body/mind degrades.

I think they did, as the provisional ranks are no longer provisional. Only a guess, though.
But yes, Guy is posting nonsense even more than his quite high nonsense standards in this topic.

As far as I remember Danara was not a hologram, the holographic image was linked to her brain at all times. Anyway, still irrelevant.

There is no mention of the borg in that episode, as they were irrelevant to the situation. It could have gone in plenty of ways.

It was (conceptually) season 4.

Where the $$ck was Seven?

 

[at Quark's]

Here's a scary thought.

Suppose the EMH 'lost' his CMO position to Kes during his offline period, didn't get it back afterwards, and he's still filled with resentment because of that.

Of course in the eyes of the crew he would be expected to try everything to prolong Kes' life, and his programming also would require that of him. But upon her death, the CMO title might revert to him.

Is that why he keeps emphasizing that this procedure is 'extremely experimental', to prepare everyone for the possibility he might, erm, "fail" in prolonging her life, without raising any suspicion?

 

[Oddish]

It was (conceptually) season 4.

Where the $$ck was Seven?

Voyager's writers couldn't even count off 38 torpedoes or three years (the time required for an ensign to earn a promorion). You think they would bother extrapolating the events of an alternative timeline within the parameters of existing canon?

That's like expecting brain surgery out of someone who couldn't even bandage a stubbed toe.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Voyager's writers couldn't even count off 38 torpedoes or three years (the time required for an ensign to earn a promorion). You think they would bother extrapolating the events of an alternative timeline within the parameters of existing canon?

That's like expecting brain surgery out of someone who couldn't even bandage a stubbed toe.

Kes and Seven both read off exactly the same temporal resonance on the unexploded Krenim torpedoes caught between decks on Voyager. Once upon a time I thought that was a herculean effort at respecting continuity, but then I saw Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5.

 

[Farscape One]

It was (conceptually) season 4.

Where the $$ck was Seven?

They hadn't hired Jeri Ryan at this point. There were still 5 more episodes left in season 3. They weren't even clear on who would be gone at the beginning of season 4.

Just look at the torpedo scene in "YEAR OF HELL". It's lifted right from Kes doing the exact same thing in "BEFORE AND AFTER".

 

[at Quark's]

You know how it is. Keep the tiny details the same so that the broad strokes can be different.

Same as with the Mirror Universe, really. Massively different universe, but still with exactly the same people in it from generation on generation, that also happen to know each other from the same type of relations (e.g. subordinate vs superior, or husband and wife, etc).

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know how it is. Keep the tiny details the same so that the broad strokes can be different.

Same as with the Mirror Universe, really. Massively different universe, but still with exactly the same people in it from generation on generation, that also happen to know each other from the same type of relations (e.g. subordinate vs superior, or husband and wife, etc).

Which is an argument that storks deliver babies, rather than 90 million sperm race towards one egg. Although by storks, I might mean a genetic council who make perfect babies, and keep making the same perfect babies over and over, rather than relying on luck and mother nature.

Maybe 2 percent of babies are delivered by storks, and they are exceptional people who will change the universe, and all the shlum babies made the natural way are nobodies who amount to nothing.

 

[Oddish]

They hadn't hired Jeri Ryan at this point. There were still 5 more episodes left in season 3. They weren't even clear on who would be gone at the beginning of season 4.

I think they'd settled on Lien at this point. "Before and After" was a condensation of what they had planned to do over the next four years, what with having Kes live her life and ultimately get old. Since it was concentrated into one episode, they took it to a further extreme than they otherwise would; I think the Harry/Linnis pairing would have been a problem with audiences if he'd been seen feeding her a bottle a couple years earlier, no matter how old she looked now.

Maybe 2 percent of babies are delivered by storks, and they are exceptional people who will change the universe, and all the shlum babies made the natural way are nobodies who amount to nothing.

As good a way as any to explain the peculiar properties of the Mirror Universe.

EDIT: 1000 replies to this topic, and still going strong.