Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x09 - "Hide and Seek"

[Scout101]

Best guess on the two Renee situation ? Kore will be the Renee stand in that dies. Gives that loose end a conclusion, get the tragedy of Soong killing his daughter, etc.

 

[G. Boney]

Picard saw this mother as an old woman!! I mean... That whole aspect of the season doesn't make sense or add up.

Picard addressed that in the episode. He says over the years he has imagined what she would look like if she'd lived to an old age.

 

[Serin117]

Actually thought that was quite a good ep with an exciting new spawn point for the Borgarti.
But the meme needed to be made

 

[El Maestro]

Picard addressed that in the episode. He says over the years he has imagined what she would look like if she'd lived to an old age.

Yeah I actually think this is really good and adds a whole new dimension to that scene all the way back in S1 TNG.

 

[Tosk]

Picard addressed that in the episode. He says over the years he has imagined what she would look like if she'd lived to an old age.

And somewhere along the way he forgot what accent she had.

 

[JRoss]

Actually thought that was quite a good ep with an exciting new spawn point for the Borgarti.
But the meme needed to be made

Yeah, I didn't care for the Caeliar. But dang, did Allison Pill and Annie Wersching kill it. Fantastic episode. Best season of Trek since DS9.

 

[fireproof78]

And somewhere along the way he forgot what accent she had.

I remember everything in French, even the English

 

[NCC-73515]

He married her in the AGT timeline.

Not for very long though XD

The problem with this retcon is that he was plenty ready to seal the deal with Vash and Lt.Cdr. Daren and at least willing to do so with Bev.

NELLA: A small part, maybe. But in the end, I was more afraid that you would blame yourself if I died. Would you have?
PICARD: I've lost people under my command. People who were very dear to me. But never someone I've been in love with. And when I believed that you were dead, I just began to shut down. I didn't want to think or feel. I was here in my quarters, and the only thing I could focus on was my music, and how it would never again give me any joy. Then I saw you standing on the transporter pad and I knew that I could never again put your life in jeopardy.

Fits quite well with this episode, I think.

That's probably the Wrath of Khan inconsistency that gets brought up the most though! But it's very easy to solve so there's not much to complain about there. Chekov didn't work on the bridge in season 1. Done.

It's no inconsistency because WoK never showed or stated in any way that they did not meet

In TOS's "The Cage" Spock said a line that suggests that someone could end up being beamed inside solid rock if the wrong destination was entered into the transporter.

By the 24/25th century they very likely corrected this problem, but any number of things can still happen to cause this, such as bypassing all saftey protocols like Seven did here.

The fusing of two objects into each other is plauseable because humans and other "solid" matter are really clouds with atoms spaced far apart. You can also hear the walls crumble a bit when the drones were beamed into them which suggest that there was some pushing and repulsion going on between atoms before everything settled.

But having them materialise as perfectly still statues, that's much harder to believe as there would be wriggling and moans of pain coming from some of them as they die a slow, much more painful than it looks death. If the transporter can stop all movements inside a living organism, why beam them into the wall for a young Picard, or the workers who will renovate the place to find?

LAFORGE: Now remember, this is a near warp transport, so the effects may be a little unusual.
TROI: What do you mean?
RIKER: You'll see, Counsellor. Energize.
TROI: Now wait a minute. I don't understand
[Living room]
DATA: You do now.
TROI: This might sound crazy, but for a moment I thought I was stuck in that wall.
WORF: For a moment, you were.

Also the poor woman who merged with the floor didn't move at all as well

If you look closely Jean-Luc's childhood PADD has TOS Movie-style graphics on it, which fits in perfectly with the ca. 2315 timeframe of the flashbacks.

I only see his dad's, which has 2360s TNG LCARS on it...

No offense but I saw in my own brother who's as Asian as I am that this "anti-woke" business that they use to boycott Trek (my brother refused to watch Discovery, he didn't say why but I know from his extreme religious fanaticism it was over Culber and Stamets and even Burnham--he booed a black attendee at 2015 Comic-Con who asked Stan Lee a question about increasing diversity in comics, with my brother claiming he was "fighting political correctness") is nowhere near limited to the white race. It attracts people of all races who like to think they are better than some other race (or orientation, etc.,)

And my brother isn't some uneducated hobo, he's a highly educated medical doctor. Frightening.

I took one of my similarly educated friends (neuroscience master) to watch What We Left Behind when it was shown that one day in theaters, and he screamed "communist bullshit!!!" when they addressed Gene's vision of equality and anti-racism and Sisko being a black captain and dad. And he's a fan who has watched everything multiple times, knows all the ships and aliens and lines, and loves the franchise! XD

 

[Saul]

Picard addressed that in the episode. He says over the years he has imagined what she would look like if she'd lived to an old age.

A throwaway line. Much like Guinan's explanation about why she looks older. That's like Kirk going "For a time I called myself James Romanos Kirk because I had a falling out with my grandfather".

 

[fireproof78]

I took one of my similarly educated friends (neuroscience master) to watch What We Left Behind when it was shown that one day in theaters, and he screamed "communist bullshit!!!" when they addressed Gene's vision of equality and anti-racism and Sisko being a black captain and dad. And he's a fan who has watched everything multiple times, knows all the ships and aliens and lines, and loves the franchise! XD

Star Trek means different things to different people.

 

[Mr Awe]

I have no idea what purpose he'd serve. Just they'd bring everyone together.

I think that type of motivation to bring him back will just detract from the episode. I'm not saying that it won't happen. It might. But I don't think it will be a net positive for the finale if it does.

The only way it really works is if there is some unique reason for why it was his character specifically who had to do something. I'm not seeing that . . . but I guess we'll see.

 

[Andyliini]

I loved this episode. It had fun, excitement and also managed to be touching while going on. Some plot threads were solved, and we got a satisfying ending for Jurati and Borg queen. Speaking of them, I should have said this last wekk already, but how great of an actor is Alison Pill? Last week it looked like she was playing Annie Werching, who was playing a Borg queen, who was playing Agnes Jurati. Terrific performance.

I also liked how the flashback were used to advance the story and never took a long time. 50 minutes was a good lenght for this episode, and I was thoroughly enjoyed. If next weeks episode is a home run, this will be the best season of Trek ever made in my opinion.

 

[donners22]

Bashir even regards it as curable in 2024. Though I don't know how true his assertion is if he admits to not really studying the 21st century due to it being too depressing.

Actually intervening in a timely and effective fashion is another matter - as Bashir himself proved. There were red flags all over O'Brien in Hard Time, but he wasn't medicated by Bashir until after he was on the verge of suicide.

 

[Trekker4747]

A throwaway line. Much like Guinan's explanation about why she looks over. That's like Kirk going "For a time I called myself James Romanos Kirk because I had a falling out with my grandfather".

Yeah, I obviously missed the line. It's as you said a throwaway one so these writers can have their little story that doesn't make any sense in the context of future Earth and a 100 year old Picard.

 

[Brainsucker]

Best guess on the two Renee situation ? Kore will be the Renee stand in that dies. Gives that loose end a conclusion, get the tragedy of Soong killing his daughter, etc.

You know, I'm curious about the Soong family. They said that Soong family will go and through to 25th century. Even their youngest one was existed in Picard Season 1. But how the current Soong has only 1 daughter, and she's not even a fully human? So, are those Soong are actually artificial human?

 

[Deks]

Doesn't need to be solved. It's flatly ignored by fans because TWOK is the greatest.

Stay consistent Trek fans!

Apart from the Genesis Device (which signified a large advancement for UFP - and then conveniently forgotten), I hadn't found TWOK to be 'greatest'.
In fact, I found ST:IV to be better... heck, ST: TMP was even better if you ask me.

 

[Deks]

Plus as enlightening as the humans say they are in thee UFP or Starfleet 'say' they are in the 23rd century, fear can still rule their decision making e.g First Contact movie

Why, I guess expecting a nit picky Trek audience to remember things is a bit much, right?

Behavioral evolution wouldn't necessarily preclude people from shunning fear... although, I would have expected that UFP would have trained everyone so they achieved higher level of emotional control via meditation in schools... not to be on par with Vulcans of course, just a lot more rational than present day humans when it comes to decision making.

Janeway did mention once that Starfleet captains don't easily succumb to fear... and to be fair, you don't get to the captains seat without encounteraing a fair share of dangers along the way and possibly taking risks.

Fear would be there... as an informant of sorts so that if you know there's danger, you could re-assess... and for the most part kept in check.

Spoiler

The novel also points out its the stubborn action of humans, who accidentally go back in time, that causes these tragic chain of events

Well, not quite.
The chain of events which led to the humans and Caeliar being lost in time was caused by the Caeliar signal from the other side of the universe (a predestination paradox). In order for those Caeliar to exist and thrive, they had to cause that calamity in the Great Work which resulted in the creation of the Borg.

Subsequently, the Caeliar also imprisoned the Columbia crew who then tried to escape (although by this time in the Trek timeline, these humans would have been more evolved, and the methods they used to escape were nothing short of barbaric and un-evolved - I can understand they had less regulations than UFP SF crews did, but still).
Its understandable that humans would want to escape imprisonment.

At any rate, the problem of the Borg is the responsibility of both Humans and Caeliar... however, if the humans hadn't waited until the last second to attempt the merging, they may have had better chances in avoiding the creation of the Borg... after all, it was mentioned that an unstable Caeliar mind filled with hunger for energy would result in nothing less than a failed merger... and because they waited so long, this was the outcome.

 

[jackoverfull]

And somewhere along the way he forgot what accent she had.

makes sense: Picard, especially in early TNG, seemed quite fixated on France, so he probably imagined his parents having a french accent.

 

[thribs]

I hate to say it because I Iove the man, but he just seems old, slow, and tired in every scene. He's really showing his age.

Should have made the show about Kirk. Shatner is older but he seems more energetic.
Plus I think he has a better grasp on the character than Stewart has on Picard.

Behavioral evolution wouldn't necessarily preclude people from shunning fear... although, I would have expected that UFP would have trained everyone so they achieved higher level of emotional control via meditation in schools... not to be on par with Vulcans of course, just a lot more rational than present day humans when it comes to decision making.

Janeway did mention once that Starfleet captains don't easily succumb to fear... and to be fair, you don't get to the captains seat without encounteraing a fair share of dangers along the way and possibly taking risks.

Fear would be there... as an informant of sorts so that if you know there's danger, you could re-assess... and for the most part kept in check.



Well, not quite.
The chain of events which led to the humans and Caeliar being lost in time was caused by the Caeliar signal from the other side of the universe (a predestination paradox). In order for those Caeliar to exist and thrive, they had to cause that calamity in the Great Work which resulted in the creation of the Borg.

Subsequently, the Caeliar also imprisoned the Columbia crew who then tried to escape (although by this time in the Trek timeline, these humans would have been more evolved, and the methods they used to escape were nothing short of barbaric and un-evolved - I can understand they had less regulations than UFP SF crews did, but still).
Its understandable that humans would want to escape imprisonment.

At any rate, the problem of the Borg is the responsibility of both Humans and Caeliar... however, if the humans hadn't waited until the last second to attempt the merging, they may have had better chances in avoiding the creation of the Borg... after all, it was mentioned that an unstable Caeliar mind filled with hunger for energy would result in nothing less than a failed merger... and because they waited so long, this was the outcome.

the Caelinar is something unique in the novelVerse. Coda explained that the Borg origins are different in each timeline.

 

[ananta]

I’m always late to the party. I thought it was the strongest episode since the start of the season, even though most of it was shot so dark it was a struggle to even see what was happening. Picard’s flashbacks were handled must more powerfully and effectively here (rendering the trip into his head by Tallinn redundant and largely unnecessary).

There’s a lot to unpack, but I have to say I have mixed feelings about what it does with the Borg. First of all, the proto-Borg weren’t terribly exciting, and we didn’t really get to see many of them up close. I expected something a little scarier somehow. While the Jurati/Borg Queen conflict was well done, I’m not sure I entirely bought it. Of all the people that have ever been assimilated (in this case by the Queen, no less, who presumably is far more powerful than the average drone), why is Jurati the only one who successfully manages to challenge and transform the Borg’s entire reason for being? It’s not like Agnes even seemed to have a particularly strong personality—in the first season she was shown as intelligent, yes, but more than a little neurotic and weak minded (and fairly easily pushed to commit murder).

The idea that the Borg always lose in all universes just doesn’t work for me. Sure, we’ve seen them lose a lot in Star Trek (and especially Voyager) but that’s simply because of the conventions of television and because the heroes always have to win (not helped by the fact Voyager overused the Borg terribly). The Borg were arguably the most terrifying villain Trek ever created because they were this unstoppable, unreasonable force of nature. That’s what made them scary—they couldn’t be reasoned with.

This episode retcons them as simply being lonely and looking for love. Alison Pill sells the hell out of it, but I still can’t believe on the basis of one little speech, the Borg have now agreed to become the good Samaritans of the universe and ask politely before they assimilate. It’s a very Star Trekky take, I know. I even kind of…kind of…like the audacity of it, but ultimately I am not convinced. I’ll see how it’s addressed in the finale, but I don’t buy it right now. To me, it would be kind of like if the writers expected us to believe the Klingons would trade their batleths for flowers and follow in the footsteps of Tongo Rad’s Space Hippies, doing away with violence in order to perform acts of kindness across the galaxy.