Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[Rahul]

Because to all the people she is living with on Earth for hundreds of years, she is a black woman. It doesn't matter that she is an alien, because she can't tell people that, and they can't recognize that just by looking at her. She has lived the life experiences of a black human woman multiple times over and has come to empathize and identify with them. She's walked the proverbial mile in another person's shoes, so to speak, and they share common cause now.

I liked the scene in "Django Unchained", where Chhristoph Waltz's character (Dr. Schultz) was "undercover" together with Django to buy Djangos wife from Mr. Candy. And they had to "play an act" undercover. And the reality of the situation hit him so hard that he started blasting, killing Mr. Candy, and blowing their cover.

That was a real good scene of someone being overwhelmed by the reality of the situation to start acting irrationally - in a way that was wrong and illogical for the situation, but very human and understandable to why he couldn't do anthing else.

I just don't think that kind of threshold was met by San Francisco in 2024. Especially for people that should know their history. It'd be way more difficult to witness, say, the Holocaust and doing nothing (see "killing Hitler in the past"). But homelessness, ICE, drug/poverty crisis just doesn't reach that level. All these characters have visited planets with WAY worse problems during their Starfleet time, active war zones even, and just witnessed the diaspora of the Romulan people.

 

[BillJ]

I woudl be WAY more concerned of fucking up the timeline, and doing something that has negative consequences in the future. Priorities.

This feels vaguely like, “fuck everyone else, I’ve got mine”.

 

[Tuskin38]

I liked the scene in "Django Unchained", where Chhristoph Waltz's character (Dr. Schultz) was "undercover" together with Django to buy Djangos wife from Mr. Candy. And they had to "play an act" undercover. And the reality of the situation hit him so hard that he started blasting, killing Mr. Candy, and blowing their cover.

That was a real good scene of someone being overwhelmed by the reality of the situation to start acting irrationally - in a way that was wrong and illogical for the situation, but very human and understandable to why he couldn't do anthing else.

I just don't think that kind of threshold was met by San Francisco in 2024. Especially for people that should know their history. It'd be way more difficult to witness, say, the Holocaust and doing nothing (see "killing Hitler in the past"). But homelessness, ICE, drug/poverty crisis just doesn't reach that level. All these characters have visited planets with WAY worse problems during their Starfleet time, active war zones even, and just witnessed the diaspora of the Romulan people.

It's a lot easier to say that sitting behind a monitor than actually being there.

 

[Rahul]

This feels vaguely like, “fuck everyone else, I’ve got mine”.

Well, mine, and all of present day humanity.

 

[fireproof78]

All these characters have visited planets with WAY worse problems during their Starfleet time, active war zones even, and just witnessed the diaspora of the Romulan people.

Control. They didn't have any.

And to be clear what I mean is in their time period there are factors they can control. They could make a difference for the Romulans. They feel the need to help now.

 

[Dukhat]

Because to all the people she is living with on Earth for hundreds of years, she is a black woman. It doesn't matter that she is an alien, because she can't tell people that, and they can't recognize that just by looking at her. She has lived the life experiences of a black human woman multiple times over and has come to empathize and identify with them. She's walked the proverbial mile in another person's shoes, so to speak, and they share common cause now.

Yes, all valid points. That doesn’t change the fact that while she can empathize and identify with them, and even look like them, she is actually not one of them.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

David Mack explains Picard's Temporal Mechanics.

https://davidmack.pro/blog/2022/03/26/star-trek-picards-temporal-mechanics/

I'm still confused. If this is a different 2024, how can they ever hope to restore the future they know?
(i.e. the Federation)

How can two different pasts lead to the same future?

 

[Rahul]

It's a lot easier to say that sitting behind a monitor than actually being there.

I mean, I'm not blaming the writers - they have good intentions. Those are REAL issues, that need to be adressed, and they're very real for the writers. That's why they - and thus the characters on the show - care so much.

As someone NOT living in the US though - this all feels rather hollow and superficial. Why do they care so much more for 21th century US problems than literally any other event/problem of Earth?

 

[cooleddie74]

Let's not forget that Sisko and Bashir were perfectly content with staying out of harm's way and trying to find a way home without becoming directly involved with the Bell Riots and didn't plunge right into the middle until the actual Gabriel Bell was killed trying to defend them from B.C. and his gang, then Sisko decided he had to get involved to make sure history unfolded as recorded.

 

[fireproof78]

Why do they care so much more for 21th century US problems than literally any other event/part of Earth?

I think they care because they are in the moment, as well as emotional.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm still confused. If this is a different 2024, how can they ever hope to restore the future they know? The Federation future?

How can two different pasts lead to the same future?

Because it isn't one event but a cumulation of events.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Because it isn't one event but a cumulation of events.

I'm not following.

Let's say that the crew does succeed in preventing the divergence and (assuming such a thing is possible) restoring the Federation timeline. Let's also say that Guinan is with them when they do this. Will Guinan all of a sudden remember meeting Picard in the 1800's like she was supposed to?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not following.

Basically, it's a progression of events that cumulate towards a larger divergence.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Star Trek: Die Hard was an episode of the series though. (Starship Mine)

Yep, that episode and the TNG films were my inspiration for the moniker.

By all means, please explain why it is a totally ridiculous thing to say.

Because no matter were she goes people are gonna think "black woman".

It's not beyond the pale that Guinan actually knew the designers of the Enterprise-D and asked them to put a bar in the forward section of deck 10 is it?

Or hell, maybe Picard modified it for Guinan once she came on the ship.

Picard: Oh, and there's a space for your bar on the ship. It's located on forward part of deck 10.
Guinan (smiles): 10 Forward. I like that,.

David Mack explains Picard's Temporal Mechanics.

https://davidmack.pro/blog/2022/03/26/star-trek-picards-temporal-mechanics/

These guys?

I woudl be WAY more concerned of fucking up the timeline, and doing something that has negative consequences in the future. Priorities.

Multitasking.

 

[Rahul]

Let's not forget that Sisko and Bashir were perfectly content with staying out of harm's way and trying to find a way home without becoming directly involved with the Bell Riots and didn't plunge right into the middle until the actual Gabriel Bell was killed trying to defend them from B.C. and his gang, then Sisko decided he had to get involved to make sure history unfolded as recorded.

Yeah, that was overall a very great episode in that regard - the character motivation seemed very real for those characters in the moment. And I absolutely like how Sisko explains Bashir the situation & historical implications - while walking right through them!

That just had the perfect balance of personal concern and compassion for the situation & still Starfleet professionalism.

 

[Dukhat]

Because no matter were she goes people are gonna think "black woman".

Where she goes on Earth. Unlike every other black woman, she can leave Earth at any time and go to another planet where that thinking doesn’t exist.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yes, all valid points. That doesn’t change the fact that while she can empathize and identify with them, and even look like them, she is actually not one of them.

Congratulations for taking several pages to make the most irrelevant, oblivious, tedious, pedantic, vapid comment possible. Really, an achievement in pointlessness. Slow clap.

ETA: @Dukhat , while I still feel your point is irrelevant to the discussion and attempts to sidestep the central racial issue instead of addressing it head-on, I could have made my objection in a more constructive manner. I apologize.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's not beyond the pale that Guinan actually knew the designers of the Enterprise-D and asked them to put a bar in the forward section of deck 10 is it?

Or hell, maybe Picard modified it for Guinan once she came on the ship.

I point out, again, Ten Forward is said to have been there in S1 in "All Good Things," though Guinan wasn't there until S2 (or at least until after Tasha died.) The address of the bar Guinan ran in the 21st century being the name of the bar (or the address/location of it) is just a stupid coincidence that, really, they shouldn't have put in there just for the wink-wink at the audience.

 

[Rahul]

Where she goes on Earth. Unlike every other black woman, she can leave Earth at any time and go to another planet where that thinking doesn’t exist.

Or another part of Earth.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As someone NOT living in the US though - this all feels rather hollow and superficial. Why do they care so much more for 21th century US problems than literally any other event/problem of Earth?

Because at the moment they are in the 21st Century US