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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

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So, why a manned mission to Europa? You can't really land on it and survive in habitats like Mars (at least not easily) so what's gotten from sending people to Europa other than to say we did/can?

JANEWAY: All right, here's one for you. What can you tell me about the Millennium Gate?
NEELIX: The Millennium Gate. Constructed in the 21st century in the United States of America. It was another one of the objects that could be seen from orbit. Er, three point two kilometres at the base, one kilometre in height, surface covered with highly reflective solar panels. A self-contained ecosystem.
JANEWAY: It became a model for the first colony on Mars. Did you know that one of my ancestors built it?

Christopher's Landing was a domed settlement on Titan, the largest moon orbiting Saturn. In 2065, Zefram Cochrane was given honors at Christopher's Landing after returning to the Solar system after his first use of the warp ship Bonaventure. (ST novel: Federation)

They can take bio domes to mars by 2020.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Confederated_Martian_Colonies

So Earth had intra solar colonies before and during WWIII, and they sat back and let earth burn for 10 years?

Pricks.
 
In both of his appearances as the bus punk, didn't Kirk Thatcher also write and perform the song he's listening to?

On a completely unrelated matter...while I liked this episode, Guinan's attitude really turned me off. In the TV & Media forum here, there's a thread about TV & movie tropes that you hate...well, this is one of mine. The jaded, arrogant jerk with a bad attitude who's given up on everything. I mean, it's a wonder Guinan doesn't get a nosebleed from having her fucking nose in the air.

Stick a fork in it, it's DONE. :rolleyes:

I admit I'm very interested in the Watcher thing. Seems a clear reference to the Aegis from "Assignment: Earth". Can't wait to see where they're going with this!

Another question: When Raffi and Seven are transported out of the police car, what is the building they're in front of? Looks kind of familiar...

Also, in the final scene with Q...he doesn't actually cause Renee Picard to laugh, does he? He's obviously confused that his powers don't work, so it's probaly just a coincidence. And we also don't know exactly who Q is talking about...could be himself!
 
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I missed a lot of the easter eggs (our two dogs never let us watch TV together without acting up so I was distracted every ten seconds), but did catch the “21st Street Mission” in one of the Guinan/Picard scenes.
 
On a completely unrelated matter...while I liked this episode, Guinan's attitude really turned me off. In the TV & Media forum here, there's a thread about TV & movie tropes that you hate...well, this is one of mine. The jaded, arrogant jerk with a bad attitude who's given up on everything. I mean, it's a wonder Guinan doesn't get a nosebleed from having her fucking nose in the air.

I agree. Her angst was completely out of character. I realize some people liked her, but I felt that the writers were just making her a symbol for oppressed minorities with their heavy-handed social commentary this season. Which is quite silly when Guinan is supposed to be an alien who to my knowledge was never oppressed because of the color of her skin. Now, that's not to say that she couldn't be in a situation where she was judged based on that, but I would think someone like Guinan would just shrug that off and move on to some other planet, and not act all pissed off about it.
 
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I agree. Her angst was completely out of character. I realize some people liked her, but I felt that the writers were just making her a symbol for oppressed minorities with their heavy-handed social commentary this season. Which is quite silly when Guinan is supposed to be an alien who to my knowledge was never oppressed because of the color of her skin.

Guinan is an alien who has lived on earth from at least the 19th Century until 2024. Seemingly mostly in North America. Although she is an alien she looks exactly like a black woman.

I don’t understand how anyone would think it was possible that she’s never been oppressed because of the colour of her skin.

If anything it may affect her more. She’s seeing humans oppress other humans because of the colour of their skin. She is not only experiencing that but she actually is another race.
 
On a completely unrelated matter...while I liked this episode, Guinan's attitude really turned me off. In the TV & Media forum here, there's a thread about TV & movie tropes that you hate...well, this is one of mine. The jaded, arrogant jerk with a bad attitude who's given up on everything. I mean, it's a wonder Guinan doesn't get a nosebleed from having her fucking nose in the air.

I mean, she's s black woman living in 21st century Earth, so she's going to a bit cynical. You have the privilege of being a white man.

I mean, it felt out of character for *Guinan* to behave that way considering how wise her race is supposed to be, her longevity, and then fact that she lived there during 19th Century America where things where a lot worse for people who looked like her, but the overall theme the scene was going for works and makes sense.

So, sorry, that people who're still being treated like 2nd snd 3rd class citizens are a bit cynical.
 
In both of his appearances as the bus punk, didn't Kirk Thatcher also write and perform the song he's listening to?

On a completely unrelated matter...while I liked this episode, Guinan's attitude really turned me off. In the TV & Media forum here, there's a thread about TV & movie tropes that you hate...well, this is one of mine. The jaded, arrogant jerk with a bad attitude who's given up on everything. I mean, it's a wonder Guinan doesn't get a nosebleed from having her fucking nose in the air.

Stick a fork in it, it's DONE. :rolleyes:

I admit I'm very interested in the Watcher thing. Seems a clear reference to the Aegis from "Assignment: Earth". Can't wait to see where they're going with this!

Another question: When Raffi and Seven are transported out of the police car, what is the building they're in front of? Looks kind of familiar...

Also, in the final scene with Q...he doesn't actually cause Renee Picard to laugh, does he? He's obviously confused that his powers don't work, so it's probaly just a coincidence. And we also don't know exactly who Q is talking about...could be himself!

I can buy someone being cynical about our times because I am cynical but Guinan doesn't make sense because she saw humans at even worst points in time and also future Guinan lost her whole planet to the Borg but she always had a nice peaceful personality to her.

Also they gave her lines that scream modern day human more than Guinan. Maybe if you had Whoopi making these lines it would fit more natural but they didn't even have that going for them. Just compare her to how different Seven feels now to how she was on Voyager. Well it helps making that change when you still got Jeri Ryan playing the character.
 
I agree. Her angst was completely out of character. I realize some people liked her, but I felt that the writers were just making her a symbol for oppressed minorities with their heavy-handed social commentary this season. Which is quite silly when Guinan is supposed to be an alien who to my knowledge was never oppressed because of the color of her skin. Now, that's not to say that she couldn't be in a situation where she was judged based on that, but I would think someone like Guinan would just shrug that off and move on to some other planet, and not act all pissed off about it.

She doesn't just listen.

Guinan is a Little telepathic.

She "feels" everyone elses oppression.
 
I mean, she's s black woman living in 21st century Earth, so she's going to a bit cynical. You have the privilege of being a white man.

It has nothing to do with white privilege. It has to do with writers making a fictional character act out of character in order to promote an agenda. Just like Patrick Stewart is doing with Picard's character. The JLP in this show is far more like Stewart in real life than his fiction character.
 
News flash: Trek has always used characters to "promote an agenda."

Now this was a little clumsier because its was Guinan and she wasn't herself but maybe a lot about her changed in the least 130 years and stuff about her will change in the next 300.

We don't know what 21st century Guinan was like.

They could've been a little less blunt or said something about a recent incident pushing Guinan over the edge, but using characters to promote an "agenda" is very Trek.
 
I mean, she's s black woman living in 21st century Earth, so she's going to a bit cynical. You have the privilege of being a white man.

I mean, it felt out of character for *Guinan* to behave that way considering how wise her race is supposed to be, her longevity, and then fact that she lived there during 19th Century America where things where a lot worse for people who looked like her, but the overall theme the scene was going for works and makes sense.

So, sorry, that people who're still being treated like 2nd snd 3rd class citizens are a bit cynical.

In the 19th century she was gentry.

Money talks.

She never made a physical connection with the type of people who didn't know who she was, and might treat her like a nobody.

Where has all her money gone?

Supposedly Guinan has a replicator somewhere?

She can make gold or cash.
 
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