Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
No she shouldn't have memories of "Time's Arrow" since the future in which that story took place no longer exists. The current past is the original timeline that "Time's Arrow" altered since that event never happen.
i.e. The alteration that changed the future had a tack-on effect of resetting the past to an earlier pre-"Time's Arrow" version.
It's a fork in the time line.
Both futures are potential futures in 2024 before the divergence.
A potential future is a future, and time travellers can return to the past from there.
The anti-timeline where Tasha lived, young anti-time Guinin met prime Picard, yet decided not to look for a job on Picard's Enterprise, or because of the Klingon war, they were not handing out jobs on the flagship to non Starfleet types or dirty foreigners.
You know what's really depressing? Even if Picard saves the timeline (which we know he will), World War 3 in Star Trek starts in 2026. So that tipping point that Picard was telling 2024 Guinan about? It doesn't happen. In two years, World War 3 will start over the issue of genetic engineering and human genome enhancement and everyone on earth (the ones still living, at least) will be miserable until the war ends in 2053 and things don't get better until first contact with the Vulcans in 2063.
Yeah but I think Picard mentions that change often takes longer than we want. So I think it was implied that things would still be terrible for awhile but that they do eventually get better and Guinan should "hang in there" and not give up hope.
Genetic Engineering is 1990s bullshit that's been outlawed and no longer a problem by 2024.
WWIII lasts longer than 20 years.
It's more likely to have finished with a nuclear exchange rather than to have started with a nuclear exchange.
The Bell Riots make America better, just before atomic winter sets in, and Colonel Green starts culling all the mutants.
Zephram "stole" everything he needed to make the phoenix because the central government collapsed, and couldn't stop him, or notice him, raiding abandoned nuclear silos to make an antimatter bomb.
Without the collapse of America there would have been no warp flight in 2063.
Of course one could argue that if the advancement of all ideas and tech ceased up in 2026 when all the universities closed down, then someone could have built a warp engine in 2027, if world war 3 had not started.
I'm not impressed with the Watchers so far, but happy that Orla Brady gets more to do than just moon over Picard.
I also wish they'd freed Rios in this episode and moved on. But I suspect they'll still be in 2024 after episode 5, what with the Europa mission, and Q having lost his powers...
I also wish they'd freed Rios in this episode and moved on. But I suspect they'll still be in 2024 after episode 5, what with the Europa mission, and Q having lost his powers...
Hopefully Picard pleading with Guinan to stay on Earth doesn't lead to her dying during WWIII.
She goes home, notices the assimilation cubes, runs, and then gets caught in the Nexus, on her way back to Earth in 2293.
There were a lot of good things here.
Picard’s English explained.
First Contact musical cues all over the place and used effectively.
Dixon Hill reference.
Badass Guinan.
And strong guest casting.
Picard’s English explained.
First Contact musical cues all over the place and used effectively.
Dixon Hill reference.
Badass Guinan.
And strong guest casting.
For the most part, I liked this episode. I like the supervisor reference and seeming connection between Gary Seven and Laris. And Q losing his power? Huh. The stuff between the Queen and Jurati continues to be fascinating and I like what they’re doing with Seven and Raffi. I like Rios but this arc isn’t working for me. My biggest problem is Guinan. It’s just… weird seeing someone other than Whoopi playing her. I can ignore the Time’s Arrow thing. There’s always a workaround. But this just doesn’t seem like the Guinan we know. Perhaps she’ll be back and grow into her. We’ll see.
8/10
“I still hate all of you!”
8/10
“I still hate all of you!”
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Ouch, this is going to enrage many.
I still enjoyed the episode, I'm giving it a 7, but it would be much higher if it weren't for the elephant in the room: Guinan.
I can't believe they are totally ignoring Time's Arrow. And, recast or not, she was written as so unguinany…
I like that they explained picard's accent and both the immigration and borg queen plots were well done. The watcher being Laris didn't came as a surprise, but I got spoilered on that…I wonder why Guinan didn't say anything until she heard the Picard name and why it impressed her…Well, we know why it should, but apparently neither of them has any memory of the 1800s…
I'm confused by the ending: is Q powerless now?
They even got the Jackson roykirk reference but forgot time's arrow…go figure.
The old punk on the bus was fun.
I still enjoyed the episode, I'm giving it a 7, but it would be much higher if it weren't for the elephant in the room: Guinan.
I can't believe they are totally ignoring Time's Arrow. And, recast or not, she was written as so unguinany…
I like that they explained picard's accent and both the immigration and borg queen plots were well done. The watcher being Laris didn't came as a surprise, but I got spoilered on that…I wonder why Guinan didn't say anything until she heard the Picard name and why it impressed her…Well, we know why it should, but apparently neither of them has any memory of the 1800s…
I'm confused by the ending: is Q powerless now?
They even got the Jackson roykirk reference but forgot time's arrow…go figure.
The old punk on the bus was fun.
I don’t mind the Rios arc because it means more screentime for Sol RodriguezFor the most part, I liked this episode. I like the supervisor reference and seeming connection between Gary Seven and Laris. And Q losing his power? Huh. The stuff between the Queen and Jurati continues to be fascinating and I like what they’re doing with Seven and Jurati. I like Rios but this arc isn’t working for me. My biggest problem is Guinan. It’s just… weird seeing someone other than Whoopi playing her. I can ignore the Time’s Arrow thing. There’s always a workaround. But this just doesn’t seem like the Guinan we know. Perhaps she’ll be back and grow into her. We’ll see.
8/10
“I still hate all of you!”
I'm wondering if that was the young punk on the bus in Star Trek IV The Voyage Home, but IMDB is not being helpful as yet.
Apparently it’s Kirk Thatcher. So yes, old punk is young punk.
Then I guess you don’t.
I don't mind ignoring Time's Arrow. As some have argued above the future that created it hasn't happened since the team came from a future where there was no Federation. So I suppose, this Guinan is a result of slow disillusionment with humanity because she never met a Picard from the future where things worked out. That said, the actor's performance doesn't have any hint of Whoopi's Guinan like any attempt at vocal inflections or body language which there should be some of those personal ticks in spite of any disillusionment.
Q, I got nothing there. Maybe, changing Picard's timeline changed his own or maybe the Continuum decided to zap his powers again. I wonder if Guinan will put another fork in him?
On the other hand, if Guinan's Time's Arrow stuff didn't happen then the Punk Rocker's getting neck pinched by Spock shouldn't have happened since Kirk's time oughtn't have happened. Which if it didn't happen, why didn't that whale probe come and whack the Earth?
Q said Earth had the same development up to when the shit goes down, whatever it is so Nomad's still good to go. Roykirk's life was never affected by time travelers so far as we know so nothing's changed for him unlike Guinan. She's Time Sick because her timeline was altered if I followed that bar chat aright.
On another hand, the writer's probably just wanted to do this story and hang continuity if they even worried at all about Time's Arrow or any other time travel plot in Trek.
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