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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x01 - "The Star Gazer"

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This very episode had 15 minutes at the beginning where literally nothing happened - just empty, dumb dialog. That stuff can be done in 3 minutes. Everyone has different opinions, but none of the best star trek episodes have 15 minutes of pure dialog - and if they do then it's provocative or interesting not Picard talking about his past - or whatever the hell that was about...I've already forgotten. :lol:
15 minutes of scene-setting action and dialogue are not the same as 15 minutes of silence, which is what you first claimed - the hyperbole undermines rather than supporting your argument. Also, I just checked, the vineyard scenes do not last 15 minutes, more like 11-12 (the opening sequence of the episode is action-packed drama aboard the Stargazer), and there is something happening in every one of those scenes, which are used to establish how Picard's life (and Laris's) has moved forward since we last saw him. Setting the scene, grounding us in where Picard is now, so that the rest of the season can move him forward from that point.

The sainted TNG could be glacial at times. I think a lot of people forget that, looking back through the rosy spectacles of nostalgia.
 
This very episode had 15 minutes at the beginning where literally nothing happened - just empty, dumb dialog
Dialog is stuff happening. Sorry, this isn't video game where you can skip dialog.
but none of the best star trek episodes have 15 minutes of pure dialog
Yes, they have. But, that's highly subjective.
The sainted TNG could be glacial at times. I think a lot of people forget that, looking back through the rosy spectacles of nostalgia.
Oh, they definitely do. On my attempt to get back in to TNG the first episode was all about legal discussions.
 
If any scene was narratively unneeded, it was meeting Guinan, as she didn't say anything that he didn't already hear from Laris or Raffi.
True, however a scene setting up guinan was necessary for those not that familiar with tng and also to establish where she is now (on earth, tending a new bar), as the character will show up again later in the series.
Family from TNG, is nothing but characters talking, the vast majority of which is set on a vineyard. It's one of my top ten episodes of the show.
Agreed, a fantastic conclusion to the borg trilogy and a very daring one for the times.
"Shuttlepod One(ENT)" is literally just 43 minutes or so of two men stuck in a shuttlepod and believing they're going to die with a couple of cutaways to Enterprise and Archer and others talking. And it is excellent Trek.
ugh, can’t say that’s a favourite of mine. On the other hand the drumhead…or court martial…or conspiracy…thinking of it, a LOT of Star Trek has a lot of prolonged dialogue in it!

Dialog is stuff happening. Sorry, this isn't video game where you can skip dialog.
Well, truth be told a fast forward feature is available on any streaming service these days, if he really wanted to see Star Trek just for the “action”!
 
15 minutes of scene-setting action and dialogue are not the same as 15 minutes of silence, which is what you first claimed - the hyperbole undermines rather than supporting your argument.

Sort of like the hyperbole of Rios being interesting and vibrant - instead of the reality which is that his character is boring (as well as most of the other new ones). :D Anyway it wasn't that it was 15 min. or in a vinyard, etc., it's that it was all 4 at once (boring setting, stupid dialog, non-significant, etc.) Remove one or two of those and you'd have something watchable. All I remember is looking at the time, seeing 15 minutes and thinking "what the HELL is this - nothing at all of significance is happening".
 
"Shuttlepod One(ENT)" is literally just 43 minutes or so of two men stuck in a shuttlepod and believing they're going to die with a couple of cutaways to Enterprise and Archer and others talking. And it is excellent Trek.

"The Voyager Conspiracy " (VOY):

1st Half: Seven goes crazy after trying to download Voyager's database into her head.
2nd Half: Janeway trying to talk Seven into coming back to the ship.
 
How the hell am I two weeks late for this? I have no excuse. This was glorious. Chef's kiss, and so on.

If there's one thing I could mourn about it, it would be Seven's inexcusable, horrible, awful, no-good decision to merge all of the Rios holograms into Inigo Montoya Emmett. Someone should tell the Doctor so that he could yell at her about how he thought she was better than that.

Oh wait, two things. Cause I don't like the new theme song. It starts interesting, but falls apart for me in the second half.

Drunk Jurati is a mood, I took an instant liking to her last year and she didn't disappoint, even if she's Tilly-esque to the point where it triggers my longing for my absent favorite on that other show. Even beneath the fact that she's still obviously not over being mind-raped into murdering Maddox, she manages to come off as a grown-up Tilly who just learned to embrace her awkwardness and sometimes even weaponize it to get under people's skin.

Picard's indecision regarding the Borg Queen attacking was quite interesting. I'm not sure if it was warranted caution because of how different the Borg were acting or it was actually stupid... as I was watching, I felt like Seven was the only sane person on board trying to point out the obvious to deaf ears. I was so consumed by wondering about this that I didn't even stop to consider what should be a major clue, namely that they were referring to Picard by name instead of Locutus. They might be the Borg from the alternative universe, trying to pull the Federation fleet over there to fight the evil Federation. Or maybe it's something we'll only get the context of in the season finale, and it's actually Soji or Seven herself under the mask, recently returned from the past, and trying to purge something from the fleet's systems that only they know is there (*cough*Control*cough I jest of course. But we need the once-a-season unreasonable fear that our friendly omnicidal AI will be involved somehow and I wanted to keep up the tradition).

I'm also glad that the "didn't LA sink into the ocean" debate has already ended by the time I got here. I'm getting tired by some people and Memory Alpha taking every single spoken line in the franchise at face value and treat it as factual and 100% correct. If Picard says something happened "fifty years ago" in 2368, you bet you'll find hundreds of comments and articles on the internet treating 2318 as the canon date.

Family from TNG, is nothing but characters talking, the vast majority of which is set on a vineyard. It's one of my top ten episodes of the show.
I can't help but love how meta that episode is to how certain fans seem to treat each and every single "non-sci-fi" or character moment in this franchise... Michael Piller had to beg Berman and Roddenberry to allow it to be produced because they would've just had everything back to normal the very next episode after BoBW, and even after he managed to convince them, Berman still insisted on a sci-fi B-plot that was only scrapped because they couldn't fit it into the script. Roddenberry, for his part, kept complaining about how boring it was, there wasn't any action and jeopardy, and it also didn't fit his vision because families were all completely harmonic and loving to each other in the 24th century and adults resenting their parents or siblings was completely unthinkable.

Curious. What determines significance?
Something something plot something. I guess it comes from that Berman-era concept I've been seeing from quite a few people all over the internet that the most important part of the episode is the sci-fi concept driving the plot, with the characters being mere facilitators of it, where backstory is only given if it's relevant to the episode's dilemma/conflict/villain or if it's a few minutes of unrelated Piller filler in the teaser to lighten the mood before the actual plot starts.
 
If there's one thing I could mourn about it, it would be Seven's inexcusable, horrible, awful, no-good decision to merge all of the Rios holograms into Inigo Montoya Emmett. Someone should tell the Doctor so that he could yell at her about how he thought she was better than that.
The way Discovery is treating its starship AI by comparison makes me think that La Sirena's holograms are a long long way from being living, thinking beings like Data and Soji. No one actually got Tuvix'd here fortunately.
 
Roddenberry, for his part, kept complaining about how boring it was, there wasn't any action and jeopardy, and it also didn't fit his vision because families were all completely harmonic and loving to each other in the 24th century and adults resenting their parents or siblings was completely unthinkable.
I am honestly surprised Gene let it happen given that attitude. But, given the expectations of future humans the attitude has stuck around regardless of what was shown in Family, or in DS9, or Voyager. I guess they all can't be evolved.
Something something plot something. I guess it comes from that Berman-era concept I've been seeing from quite a few people all over the internet that the most important part of the episode is the sci-fi concept driving the plot, with the characters being mere facilitators of it, where backstory is only given if it's relevant to the episode's dilemma/conflict/villain or if it's a few minutes of unrelated Piller filler in the teaser to lighten the mood before the actual plot starts.
Again, it strikes me as incredibly funny because people want characters driving the plot forward, but not in a talky way. Just move on with the action. Heh, similar to Gene's attitude about "action and jeopardy" above.
 
The way Discovery is treating its starship AI by comparison makes me think that La Sirena's holograms are a long long way from being living, thinking beings like Data and Soji. No one actually got Tuvix'd here fortunately.
It was mostly tongue-in-cheek because I liked all the holograms and I'm sad to see them go. Cabrera did a great job in bringing them to life, but I can understand how it might be taxing for a performer.

That being said, I don't think Discovery's treatment of AI played any significant role in how Picard would use them; they generally make the effort to let each other do their own thing... I interpreted the Rioses as variations on the classic ExH pattern, and they seemed quite sentient and self-aware to me, especially in comparison to the directory/curator hologram in Picard's vault when he went to look for Data's painting that was seemingly little more than a humanoid avatar for the vault's library computer access.
 
I remember someone asking about how Picard could initiate the Star Gazers Destruct Sequence by himself.
Having just watched this episode again, it's obvious he didn't.

While Picard is verbally giving the computer his destruct command code, there's a quick cut to Rios in the captain's chair madly typing at the arm controls.
Even though Rios didn't say anything, I'm pretty sure he was putting in his authorization code at the same time.
He probably didn't say it out loud because in all the commotion and noise the computer may not have processed both verbalized codes in the few seconds that were remaining.
 
I remember someone asking about how Picard could initiate the Star Gazers Destruct Sequence by himself.
Having just watched the episode again, it's obvious he didn't.

While Picard is verbally giving the computer his destruct command code, there's a quick cut to Rios in the captains chair madly typing at the arm controls.
Even though Rios didn't say anything, I'm pretty sure he was putting in his authorization code at the same time.

I see they've done away with TNG's Swiss cheese security.
 
I am honestly surprised Gene let it happen given that attitude.
He wasn’t that involved with the show by season four.
I remember someone asking about how Picard could initiate the Star Gazers Destruct Sequence by himself.
Having just watched this episode again, it's obvious he didn't.

While Picard is verbally giving the computer his destruct command code, there's a quick cut to Rios in the captain's chair madly typing at the arm controls.
Even though Rios didn't say anything, I'm pretty sure he was putting in his authorization code at the same time.
He probably didn't say it out loud because in all the commotion and noise the computer may not have processed both verbalized codes in the few seconds that were remaining.
thanks for mentioning this, totally missed it.
 
"Shuttlepod One(ENT)" is literally just 43 minutes or so of two men stuck in a shuttlepod and believing they're going to die with a couple of cutaways to Enterprise and Archer and others talking. And it is excellent Trek.
The Balance of Terror: Let's hang around in the captain's cabin and discuss life choices in the midst of phaser drills and hunting an alien warships that's fragged several of our outposts and the galaxy teeters on the edge of an interstellar conflict on a scale not seen in the last century.
 
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