John Eaves just draws the same saucer every single time
Spoilers The NCC-82893 Thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
Everything at the Eaves concept stage looks like possibly a really cool ship covered tip to toe with Voyager super armor.
The Starg8zer
My apologies to @MrPicard in advance
And does that mean Picard is The Stargeezer. KIDDING!
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There doesn't seem to be any logic for when a ship gets a letter added to its registry. We've seen many ships over the years where the same name is used but the registry number differs entirely.
I assume the only reason this exists is because of the Enterprise-A in The Voyage Home. The ship's reveal would've been slightly less impactful if there was a different registry number shown. The camera specifically panned over the ship's registry to drive home the point that not only did the ship look exactly like its predecessor, but it shares the exact same registry number.
I'm coming into this conversation late based off the replies I'm reading on page six. So if we've already moved on from this, sorry. Ignore me.
BUT I WILL SAY - the new Stargazer is one of my favorite ships now. She's absolutely stunning.
I assume the only reason this exists is because of the Enterprise-A in The Voyage Home. The ship's reveal would've been slightly less impactful if there was a different registry number shown. The camera specifically panned over the ship's registry to drive home the point that not only did the ship look exactly like its predecessor, but it shares the exact same registry number.
I'm coming into this conversation late based off the replies I'm reading on page six. So if we've already moved on from this, sorry. Ignore me.
BUT I WILL SAY - the new Stargazer is one of my favorite ships now. She's absolutely stunning.
Yeah The Voyage Home gave the new Enterprise an -A as a clever way to explain that it was a new ship that just looked the same. Then TNG came out a year later with the -D, which served the purpose of telling Voyage Home fans that it was three ships in the future, and that firmly established that Enterprises get a suffix. The only non-Enterprises to get a suffix after that were the Yamato (fake) and the Dauntless (also fake), up until Discovery where the new people brought in to run Star... fleet either didn't know or didn't care that it was traditionally limited to Enterprises.
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John Eaves just draws the same saucer every single time
"First, start with the standard Eaves saucer! Second, figure out where the negative space goes this time!"
Are you positive?
Interesting that the Stargazer is the first of its kind (according to Seven) but is of the Sagan class.
So it would seem that the actual USS Sagan is some kind of prototype that never left spacedock. Or something like that.
So it would seem that the actual USS Sagan is some kind of prototype that never left spacedock. Or something like that.
First with any Borg tech???
Since we have a large number of new registries and the dialogue in the episode is hilariously ambiguous with a lot of room for plausible deniability, I have the following head canons:
Lettered ships other than the Enterprise (probably) exist and we just never see them in earlier centuries.
Same Registry# + Letter = Ship named after a specific USS X, to honor a specific mission/event/crew. All lettered Enterprises would be named after the original 1701.
New Registry# = Next ship to be named USS X. Continuing the line but not specifically honoring, same name but not named after. The NCC-82893 is not actually a special registry number other than it references the Constellation Class Stargazer without actually being named after it. Someone at command saw the name Stargazer and okay'd the request to give it that specific registry number because it fits and would be fun.
"Refit" = umbrella term that people use to mean several things (think 'pudding' or 'reboot').
1. Can be defined as an individual ship being refit (either extensively, basically a new build like the 1701, or as just standard maintenance/upgrades without cosmetic differences)
2. Can be an upgrade to the entire class that is adapted to future production models (Excelsior Refit, Constitution Refit, etc. Same class, new look) so it can be a brand new ship, but the design is the 'new' version of the legacy class (the Lakota, Enterprise-B, etc.)
3. Can be a brand new class based on an old class (this assumes that the new Stargazer is in fact a NEW Stargazer and not a direct refit of the 2893). I'm thinking the Sagan Class, Excelsior II, Ross class, etc. New classes, but based on old designs, so a 'refit' of an old class. This is stretching the traditional meaning of refit as far as previous Star Trek goes, but I try to redefine as Star Trek chooses to redefines itself. Picard seems to lean into this given the dialogue to me.
This allows for the Olympic Class to be loosely referred to as a Daedalus Refit, at least offhandedly.
Letter suffixes in earlier centuries of Starfleet are given to newly commissioned vessels, given that the name is only given once the previous ship is gone. Over time, this tradition changes.
Letter suffixes in way future centuries of Starfleet can also be used for extensive refits and not necessarily a completely new build or new commission. This shift in culture probably happens around the time that building a completely new ship and completely refitting an old one cost about the same amount of resources thanks to future technology.
So in the case of Voyager-J, the Intrepid Class. I generally believe that it truly is an Intrepid class, but a refit of the design. The Intrepid Class continued to be upgraded and refit for 900 years, but the Voyager-J would be a new build. I wouldn't be surprised if there are Excelsior and Miranda class ships out there still, albeit quite different looking by now (then?).
Lettered ships other than the Enterprise (probably) exist and we just never see them in earlier centuries.
Same Registry# + Letter = Ship named after a specific USS X, to honor a specific mission/event/crew. All lettered Enterprises would be named after the original 1701.
New Registry# = Next ship to be named USS X. Continuing the line but not specifically honoring, same name but not named after. The NCC-82893 is not actually a special registry number other than it references the Constellation Class Stargazer without actually being named after it. Someone at command saw the name Stargazer and okay'd the request to give it that specific registry number because it fits and would be fun.
"Refit" = umbrella term that people use to mean several things (think 'pudding' or 'reboot').
1. Can be defined as an individual ship being refit (either extensively, basically a new build like the 1701, or as just standard maintenance/upgrades without cosmetic differences)
2. Can be an upgrade to the entire class that is adapted to future production models (Excelsior Refit, Constitution Refit, etc. Same class, new look) so it can be a brand new ship, but the design is the 'new' version of the legacy class (the Lakota, Enterprise-B, etc.)
3. Can be a brand new class based on an old class (this assumes that the new Stargazer is in fact a NEW Stargazer and not a direct refit of the 2893). I'm thinking the Sagan Class, Excelsior II, Ross class, etc. New classes, but based on old designs, so a 'refit' of an old class. This is stretching the traditional meaning of refit as far as previous Star Trek goes, but I try to redefine as Star Trek chooses to redefines itself. Picard seems to lean into this given the dialogue to me.
This allows for the Olympic Class to be loosely referred to as a Daedalus Refit, at least offhandedly.
Letter suffixes in earlier centuries of Starfleet are given to newly commissioned vessels, given that the name is only given once the previous ship is gone. Over time, this tradition changes.
Letter suffixes in way future centuries of Starfleet can also be used for extensive refits and not necessarily a completely new build or new commission. This shift in culture probably happens around the time that building a completely new ship and completely refitting an old one cost about the same amount of resources thanks to future technology.
So in the case of Voyager-J, the Intrepid Class. I generally believe that it truly is an Intrepid class, but a refit of the design. The Intrepid Class continued to be upgraded and refit for 900 years, but the Voyager-J would be a new build. I wouldn't be surprised if there are Excelsior and Miranda class ships out there still, albeit quite different looking by now (then?).
Seven: "The Stargazer is the first of a new class of ship"
If they knew it was gonna be a Sagan class, they should have adjusted that line somewhat.
Yeah, that's pretty hard to navigate, aside from some head canon weirdness.
Oh well.
It's in the future, they are allowed to add new traditions. Besides, it's a convent way to shorten registry numbers. I did a little quick math, they would probably be in the 300,000s by that point? More if they increase the number of ships per year over time.
The dialogue is so hilariously frustrating when it comes to figuring out what means what. I choose to take this as, 'a new class of Borg-i-fied ships' and not specifically a new named class of ship design.
Kind of like how the Defiant was a new class of ship (the Defiant class) and also a new class (umbrella term) of Starfleet vessels intended for kicking ass.
To me, the NCC-82893 Stargazer has been refit with Borg tech, to be first of a 'new class' of Starfleet ship that has Borg tech, and not the first of the Sagan class. The Sagan class itself is a design based on the Constellation class, and can offhandedly be thought of as a refit of the previous class. Some hoops, but this has allowed me to reconcile the contradictory descriptions in the show.
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Perhaps. But you could look at it like a type or a series.'
Then the class name is meaningless.
I can’t remember, have we ever in onscreen canon seen a ship with the same name as the class? I honestly can’t think of one but am aware I may be wrong.
Wasn't that the case with the Excelsior and the Defiant?
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