Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x06 - "Kobayashi"

[DaveyNY]

The Kobayashi Maru was playable in the old 1990s Starfleet Academy game (and its console ports) and recently a browser based version was made available too. Specifically for the browser version which I don't have much experience with, are any of Dal's unorthodox tactics actually possible to attempt? :O

Probably not.
Beyond that, one would have to surmise that the Holodeck by the time of the Protostar is probably well capable of going beyond the limits of the original program.
As long as the basic tenet is kept intact, in this case, the Unwinnable Situation.

 

[Sakonna]

Re: The use of Odo according to the author of the episode, Aaron Waltke:

This wasn’t something that bothered me at all. ‪‪I had figured that sure, he wasn’t a member of Starfleet, but he ran security for a Starfleet operated facility for years, and served on the bridge of a Federation ship on significant missions during the Dominion War. Didn’t seem unrealistic to me to begin with, but it was kind of cool to see the writers had put the same kind of thought into it.

My only complaint about the use of Odo is that the initial appearance of the Bajoran militia symbol had me jumping out of my seat with excitement that I was about to see KIRA!

But they did a great job making Odo work. Interesting/sad that when they started producing this episode, Rene Auberjonois was still alive and they were planning for him to be recording new lines.

I honestly forgot Nichelle Nichols wasn't dead as well. Though she's had dementia for four years now and is essentially gone as far as we're concerned.

One of the outrages of Berman Trek for me is that they brought back every TOS character (all the way down to Janice Rand), EXCEPT for Uhura. Rick Berman even gave an obnoxious quote or two along the way about how Uhura would not be an interesting character to revisit.

So I particularly appreciated how Prodigy went right to her here, even though sadly the window has closed for Nichelle to shoot/record anything new for Uhura.

All that and Dal was so annoying. I want to like him, but I find myself not understanding what he contributes to the crew. He's the "captain" but seems to have few moments of genuine ability. It's a role undeserved, and as Pog reminded us, self-appointed. I think I like him best when he's humbled and showing empathy, but those require slogging through tiresome scenes of bravado and comeuppance. (insert obligatory 'not target audience' self-admonition) I find myself wanting to say SHUT UP to him constantly. The actor isn't all that great, and compared to Kate Mulgrew's textured voice and decades of experience, or the inquisitive and heartfelt Zero's voice or the depth of sadness and loneliness in Gwyn's deliveries, his performance comes off as flat, even in his best moments. I think Rok-Tak's voice work has been better, even though the actor's a literal child.

I just want to countersign this a thousand. I'm often thinking of Dal in comparison to Mariner on Lower Decks, another lead character with many potentially alienating qualities -- but brilliantly performed and so cleverly written, and as a result you just love her (or at least I do). Mariner also has some clear strengths to go with her weaknesses. Dal doesn't have that, the character is fairly generic, and the performance is flat and forced. I'm surprised they couldn't do better with the casting of this role, given how uniformly exceptional every other regular actor is.

 

[Yistaan]

How did Dal know to call holo-Odo jelly man? Was he reading about Odo in the Protostar's computer or did one of the Kobayashi Maru replays literally require Odo to change shape?

I just want to countersign this a thousand. I'm often thinking of Dal in comparison to Mariner on Lower Decks, another lead character with many potentially alienating qualities -- but brilliantly performed and so cleverly written, and as a result you just love her (or at least I do). Mariner also has some clear strengths to go with her weaknesses. Dal doesn't have that, the character is fairly generic, and the performance is flat and forced. I'm surprised they couldn't do better with the casting of this role, given how uniformly exceptional every other regular actor is.

Funny because I had the complete opposite reaction to the point Mariner and her antics made me quit Lower Decks. She already grated on me when she got that Klingon at the conference drunk and Boimler was portrayed as the villain for wanting to get the Klingon straight to the conference on time period. But come episode 5 and her taunting Boimler that his girlfriend can't be real, she must be imaginary, and as someone who's had that sort of sick sneering done at me in real life, I quit Lower Decks in disgust and never looked back.

Dal saved his crew from the murder planet (remember holo-Janeway was the one who even made them visit it, not Dal), went back for Gwyn despite her being, you know, a slaver, and has very good points that their good deal of relaxing carefree in a starship will be taken from them if they go to the Federation. What exactly do people want from him?

 

[DaveyNY]

Perhaps he had the computer at some point actually explain who those people were?

 

[jackoverfull]

Not bad, not bad at all! All the several small plots work for me and I loved seeing the ent-d bridge. I appreciate what they tried to do with the voices but I must say it wasn’t there yet and the different lines sounded really disjointed. Also, McFadden’s lines with, I guess, we’re newly recorded, didn’t sound like crusher at all, I guess her voice changed over the years...

good seeing developments for Dal and Gwyn and discovering more on the ship.

8, it was fun

 

[Yistaan]

Also, McFadden’s lines with, I guess, we’re newly recorded, didn’t sound like crusher at all, I guess her voice changed over the years...

I'm just glad to have her back in Trek, want to see her in live action in Picard too now.

Also sounding like your younger self is very tough to pull off. If you have played the Star Trek 25th Anniversary and Judgment Rites games, you know the TOS cast sound very different. Even the late Sean Connery had trouble sounding like his 1960s self in the 2005 'From Russia with Love' game. To my knowledge, the most successful instance of an older actor voicing his younger self in recent times happened with Mark Hamill as Luke, and he's an extremely seasoned voice actor with a lot of practice.

Also the threat that was passingly mentioned of Gwyn's dad coming after them (and thus the need to go to the Federation for protection) seems very remote. The Protostar jumped 4,000 light years. Gwyn's dad doesn't have that kind of tech. It would be like Voyager in the Delta Quadrant worrying about the Tal Shiar.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It was fun, Murf continues to be the best thing to ever happen to Star Trek.

 

[Yistaan]

There may not have been enough time in universe for Nog to make a name for himself yet. Though we know it will happen eventually, per Discovery.

Kelvin Timeline Kirk has entered the chat.

 

[ToddCam]

Dal saved his crew from the murder planet (remember holo-Janeway was the one who even made them visit it, not Dal), went back for Gwyn despite her being, you know, a slaver, and has very good points that their good deal of relaxing carefree in a starship will be taken from them if they go to the Federation. What exactly do people want from him?

Doing a few successful feats or having an occasional observation doesn't make for a leadership role. If that were the case, even Neelix is just as capable of being captain as anyone else. Dal's actions haven't warranted the position imo. And the character's actor is not compelling enough to convey Dal as having the strength of personality to be a believable natural leader.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Really good episode and probably my favorite episode of the show so far.

 

[Yistaan]

Doing a few successful feats or having an occasional observation doesn't make for a leadership role. If that were the case, even Neelix is just as capable of being captain as anyone else. Dal's actions haven't warranted the position imo. And the character's actor is not compelling enough to convey Dal as having the strength of personality to be a believable natural leader.

Who should be the leader then? Because I haven't seen any better ideas (and seriously, no to the person who was a slaver all of yesterday). At best they should all cycle for a week or something.

These guys are not Starfleet officers. They're not even Federation citizens. They are not obligated to return the Protostar and as far as they know the Federation isn't even looking for it. Maybe it would be different if they received a subspace message asking for its whereabouts, but they haven't.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

My big question is 4,000 ly in what direction from where they last were?

The last position they were at, was escaping from the Hirogen Star System with the "Murder Planet" that had living plants trying to kill them & the Diviner's vessel chasing after them at Warp Speeds.

4,000 ly is a LONG way to travel from any Hirogen Territory.

They could be located in quite a few places given that the map I displayed above is the "Thin Disk" portion of the Milky Way and it has a diameter of 100,000 ly.

 

[Corran Horn]

How did Dal know to call holo-Odo jelly man? Was he reading about Odo in the Protostar's computer or did one of the Kobayashi Maru replays literally require Odo to change shape?

He had played the scenario dozens of times by that point, right?

 

[Yistaan]

He had played the scenario dozens of times by that point, right?

I believe so but I'm just really curious in what context holo-Odo would need to change shape in the Kobayashi Maru. Did Dal try to make Odo impersonate a Klingon?

 

[ToddCam]

Who should be the leader then? Because I haven't seen any better ideas (and seriously, no to the person who was a slaver all of yesterday). At best they should all cycle for a week or something.

These guys are not Starfleet officers. They're not even Federation citizens. They are not obligated to return the Protostar and as far as they know the Federation isn't even looking for it. Maybe it would be different if they received a subspace message asking for its whereabouts, but they haven't.

If they need a captain, the writers should give a reason why it should be Dal. I don't think I need to be able to come up with an alternative to say I don't really buy his leadership.

 

[Yistaan]

If they need a captain, the writers should give a reason why it should be Dal. I don't think I need to be able to come up with an alternative to say I don't really buy his leadership.

In real life you do need an alternative (like if my boss is missing then we have an acting boss at work). And long term, people cycle through who gets to be acting boss and takes turns.

I'm not saying Dal is perfect. Far from it. Maybe I'm just grating at the hate fest thrown at him and then seeing the preference for Mariner of all people--yeah that threw out any validity of the criticism to me out the window.

I think to address Dal's shortcomings the captainship should be rotated on a regular basis. That way, they all get command experience training, with holo Janeway chaperoning.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If they need a captain, the writers should give a reason why it should be Dal. I don't think I need to be able to come up with an alternative to say I don't really buy his leadership.

I don't buy ANY of the children being fit as "Crew Members", much less Captain or leadership material.

They're children, lost, getting by & trying to find a place to safety / refuge.

Hopefully the UFP can set them up with a nice orphanage that will raise them up properly.

I'm not saying Dal is perfect. Far from it. Maybe I'm just grating at the hate fest thrown at him and then seeing the preference for Mariner of all people--yeah that threw out any validity of the criticism to me out the window.

At least Mariner is a trained & seasoned Ensign that shows little signs of leadership material.

And she's an Adult.

These are all children & Murf.

 

[Yistaan]

I don't buy ANY of the children being fit as "Crew Members", much less Captain or leadership material.

They're children, lost, getting by & trying to find a place to safety / refuge.

Hopefully the UFP can set them up with a nice orphanage that will raise them up properly.


At least Mariner is a trained & seasoned Ensign that shows little signs of leadership material.

And she's an Adult.

These are all children & Murf.

I think a greater problem with Trek is that literally the UFP is considered the only "good" society that can take them in. Everyone else (Romulans, Klingons, Dominion, Orions) are Evil (TM).

Realistically, the kids should have a bunch of choices on where to settle down and decide what is best for them.

There's way too many stories of drunk/reckless adults endangering, if not outright abusing, kids in the real world, just look in the news. The Protostar crew literally just escaped from one. And given Mariner's antics--yeah...

We all know the UFP is supposedly a nice place not like Gwyn's dad. But the Protostar crew don't know that. For all they know, all they read about the Fed on the ship is propaganda.

As far as the crew is concerned, it's on the Fed to prove themselves that they will look after the kids safely, not the other way around. And the crew have a right to be suspicious after all they've been through, up to and including outright slavery and abuse at the hands of "adults"

 

[Sakonna]

I'm not saying Dal is perfect. Far from it. Maybe I'm just grating at the hate fest thrown at him and then seeing the preference for Mariner of all people--yeah that threw out any validity of the criticism to me out the window.

Funny, I look at Dal and think "oooooooohhhh, this is that complaint people make about Mariner -- only actually accurate in this case"

Sooooo much of that is the acting, BTW. Tawny Newsome has line reading after line reading that she delivers with some brilliant sideways spin that is completely unexpected yet also makes total perfect sense, and is funny but also truthful. She's like a Parker Posey. I can't help but get excited by a performance that is that nimble and deft and real. I literally find it exciting just to hear what her instincts came up with whenever that character opens her mouth.

Meanwhile, Brett Gray is saying the words. There's just not nearly as much there. (Which is maybe appropriate for a kids show? But he does strike me as notably flat compared to his 8 Prodigy co-stars as well)

I agree that there is no obvious candidate for captain (though Gwyn seems like a more obvious captain-in-waiting, once she's properly completed her Trek Redemption Arc), which is fine, at this point it doesn't seem there has to be. There is an interesting story in them figuring out how to function as a crew without an initial obvious leader. I also think Dal could function fine as one character among an ensemble of equals, or as a supporting character to some other lead.

It's when the show is centering him as THE lead that the trouble starts. I just haven't seen any justification for that yet in the actual writing or performance.

Maybe next week, though! I live in hope.

 

[Yistaan]

It's when the show is centering him as THE lead that the trouble starts. I just haven't seen any justification for that yet in the actual writing or performance.

This is actually a problem with New Trek in general. I like Burnham in Discovery but all of her screentime is at the expense of a lot of other characters like Nilsson, Rhys, Detmer, etc. Previous Trek was not like this. DS9 was not all Sisko all the time, we had Quark episodes, Odo episodes, Bashir and O'Brien, etc.

Plus Burnham was the lead on Discovery even when she had (minor spoilers for 1st season of Discovery if for some reason you still haven't seen it)

Spoiler

committed mutiny and treason against the Federation, was a criminal for life, etc. which is far, far worse than anything Dal is shown to have done on the show.