To be fair, that's easier to justify once it has killed some of your family members.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x07 - "…But to Connect"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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To be fair, that's easier to justify once it has killed some of your family members.
Yup.
I was literally gonna add that at the end.
I'm really enjoying the tone of the season, and I never thought I'd see the day we'd have a midseason cliffhanger with zero weapons fire. Bravo DIS! 
The diplomatic meeting at the center of the episode gave me tingly feelings. As did the scenes where Saru and T'Rina talked about tea.
I think Zora is a wonderful addition to the crew. Stamet's impassioned defense of her towards the end was brilliant. I also loved the way his speech intercut Burnham's to the council.
The diplomatic meeting at the center of the episode gave me tingly feelings. As did the scenes where Saru and T'Rina talked about tea.
I think Zora is a wonderful addition to the crew. Stamet's impassioned defense of her towards the end was brilliant. I also loved the way his speech intercut Burnham's to the council.
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Grudge's pet carrier is disappointingly low tech. I expected a miniature holodeck she can stretch her legs in and explore. Much less stressful, I should imagine.
Not many advances in pet care in 900 years.
Not many advances in pet care in 900 years.
Didn't he mention Aurolio (Kenneth Mitchell's character from the last episode in season 3). That's why I thought he was talking about.
After thinking about this episode a little more, I didn't really like it as much as last week, but it was still continuing a run of good Discovery episodes we've had lately. I really enjoyed the Zora plotline a lot more than the DMA plotline and it actually reminded me a little of A Measure of a Man. I think what I liked about it the most was it felt like a natural progression of the story, where we first start with Zora willingly making a way to deactivate and then when we peel back the layers, it's a lot more complicated than that. One of the complaints I saw a lot was the Ship having feelings and how this show has been plagued by feelings, but I find this situation a little unique. The sphere data has been there since a few episodes into Season 2, and we have literally seen the evolution of this character leading to this point. It's been a slow progression, but I think it might be some of the best character development I've seen from this show. I also find Covich one of the best characters on the show, so to have him be a part of this storyline and be extremely fair about his evaluation was really well done. I also appreciated the amount of screen time Stamets has been getting lately. From the final few episodes in Season 3 to now, I didn't like the direction Stamets was going in. Now it seems like other than Adira, this has given him purpose, and being the chief engineer, it makes sense that it would be Stamets who needed convincing.
As for the federation debate storyline, I said after the episode that I think Book was right and I still feel that way. This is a guy who has gone through a traumatic experience, we've seen this anomaly destroy multiple planets, and to hear people say we must make first contact and peace with this thing seems like betrayal. Maybe this species is peaceful, but so far we haven't seen anything to believe that they are. Book can only go on what he knows at the moment, and I think right now he's at the Anger stage of grief. Can't say I blame him.
This one gets an 8 from me.
I tried to get my dad to watch some of this series and he complained that they spend too much time making speeches when they’re in danger. This episode is a perfect example of that problem. When something is capable of destroying entire worlds, it’s probably time to take it out, minimizing casualties to the extent possible but still removing the threat.
My favorite plot line in this episode was sentient Zora joining Star Fleet. I also like the budding romance between T’Rina and Saru. I am glad that they emphasize that there are multiple parallel universes. My preferred outcome for the various Star Trek shows has not appeared on screen.
My favorite plot line in this episode was sentient Zora joining Star Fleet. I also like the budding romance between T’Rina and Saru. I am glad that they emphasize that there are multiple parallel universes. My preferred outcome for the various Star Trek shows has not appeared on screen.
With cats' advanced smell and hearing, I wouldn't be surprised if Grudge could figure out holo-illusions are fake. Also Study: Cats know masters’ location through hearing, not sight | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis
This episode reminded me a lot of the Federation/Chain negotiation episode from last season which was one of Discovery's best.
- The debate between the 2 different plans was interesting
- I have been bitchin and moaning all season about the problem Zora poses so was delighted to see that dealt with and wrapped up. It was brilliant to finally have a member of the crew worried too rather than the usual soppy lovefest
- Always had a feeling that Adira and Grey was going this way and definitely don't think it's gonna be plain sailing
- Cool to hear that Rick Sanchez was an Emerald Chain prisoner
- Why did Burnham and about 3 NiVar all get a vote at the meeting. Bit rigged if you ask me
- Does anyone have a rundown of the various aliens at the summit ?
- I'm a bit disappointed that the DMA is not the force of nature that was originally alluded to
The multi floor assembly was interesting. Definitely different from the usual "floor of Congress" format. Kudos to Discovery for being creative. Although I am not exactly sure how practical it would be. I get that each floor had the holo screen to see the President's speech and presumably speakers and microphones to transmit the audio to each floor. We saw mostly the top floor with the President, Michael, Earth, N'Var delegations talking. I would think the other floors would feel kind of "disconnected" or "distant" since they could be several floors down and only viewing things on the holo screen..
I'm slightly annoyed that despite cast members repeatedly leaving, (Tilly, Nhan), the bridge crew cast (Patrick Kwok-Choon, Sara Mitich, etc.) aren't given the chance to use their characters to fill the gap, and instead guest stars are brought in (the latest being Tarka) for acting drama that could still be done by the bridge crew (the most bizarre example being the random prisoner a few episodes ago who got all this drama despite the episode start leading us to believe Rhys would get more screentime).
Tarka is a completely uninteresting character so far and his "reveal" fell flat to me. Imagine if it had been Nilsson, now regretting her choice to follow Burnham to the future, who ran off with Book after surreptitiously shadowing Stamets and duplicating the spore drive without him noticing, with Book using spore tech to blow up the DMA and Nilsson using the resulting power surge to circumvent the time travel ban and go home. Burnham would not just have the guilt of Book running off, but now the guilt of a crewmember regretting a choice to follow her to the future.
I understand his anger and I think the Federation should have chosen diplomacy but also oked the building of the bomb as a back up and also the assembly of a "just in case" fleet. Diplomacy is the right course though when you take in the fact that we have no clue about these aliens. They could be God level Q type aliens who can wipe everyone out with a finger snap
The first time this season my grade is lower than most others' here. 6.
It was just too...drawn out. Too much talking and stalling even for a Trek episode. Zora's breakthrough combined with the reveal about the origin of the Risan scientist and Gray and Adira getting things to do helped elevate the episode but it just felt like 47 minutes of mostly...nothing much.
It wasn't bad but it wasn't exciting, either. The first episode this season that's dipped below an 8 for me.
It was just too...drawn out. Too much talking and stalling even for a Trek episode. Zora's breakthrough combined with the reveal about the origin of the Risan scientist and Gray and Adira getting things to do helped elevate the episode but it just felt like 47 minutes of mostly...nothing much.
It wasn't bad but it wasn't exciting, either. The first episode this season that's dipped below an 8 for me.
After the one line in the trailer, where Kovich says:
…I’ve started to wonder if Species 10-C won’t end up having some connection with the hibernating species that was just introduced in S04E03 Choose to Live. It’s a longshot for sure, but it feels plausible. With the species Jivini, Burnham, Tilly and Gabrielle Burnham aided being unknown to the Federation/not in their records, and having traveled in cryosleep for potentially centuries, and with warp capability, the implication is that they travelled *very* far, and they could potentially be from outside the Galaxy themselves, and perhaps have prior knowledge of Species 10-C.
Kovich said:
…I’ve started to wonder if Species 10-C won’t end up having some connection with the hibernating species that was just introduced in S04E03 Choose to Live. It’s a longshot for sure, but it feels plausible. With the species Jivini, Burnham, Tilly and Gabrielle Burnham aided being unknown to the Federation/not in their records, and having traveled in cryosleep for potentially centuries, and with warp capability, the implication is that they travelled *very* far, and they could potentially be from outside the Galaxy themselves, and perhaps have prior knowledge of Species 10-C.
I've been lukewarm on this episode but after watching that other star franchise spend yet another entire episode on a boring desert planet (If there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet it's farthest from), suddenly Discovery doesn't seem so bad right now. Whatever you feel about how these characters approach the DMA, you clearly understand why Book is doing what he's doing and why Burnham is doing what she's doing. Meanwhile over at that other star franchise (minor spoilers for 1st episode of Book of Boba Fett)
Boba Fett is trying to be a crime lord without doing, you know, violently criminal things that crime lords do to stay in power (like torturing people and killing rivals when he has the chance). One wonders why he even wants to become a crime lord at all. Even Jar-Jar Binks would facepalm at this.
Book was the best thing about this week's episode, hands down.
A 9.
And 3 STD episodes in a row that I very much enjoyed. This for me was another good one, and I liked the way they somewhat interconnected the A and B stories (a Trek storytelling structure I usually loathe, but it worked fine here.)
I REALLY like that they've gone back to the original Star Trek characterizations that involve real humans with honest and valid differing viewpoints who in the end, can discuss and express those views openly, but in the end come to an agreement and move forward still working together (yes, there are two 'rebels' now, but even their motivations make sense and are true to their characters); and further that they've gotten away from the: "This viewpoint is the absolute and most obvious 'correct one'..." - which is how the TNG era mostly handled these type of stories - and yes, there were exceptions to this very occasionally in TNG (especially with DS9); but overall they were in often in 'group think' mode <--- So, yeah, I'm very happy STD is NOT going back to that type of storytelling paradigm, which I was afraid they would ease back into with the 'more enlightened' 32nd century Federation.
As for the Zora storyline, again, I liked that concerns were expressed and discussed, and neither side's views were obviously right or wrong; and I also like how they dealt with A.I. developing into a true sentient 'lifeform' due to an unknown which they don't know came into being. That was always my issue with Data being classified as a 'life form' as he was, in the end, he still was sum of Soong's programming (including the emotion chip Soong created for him), and even though said programming was amazing, he still in the end was just a A.I. mimicking Soong himself in a sense. here we essentially have an organic type 'soul' integrated into an A.I. - and even said A.I. doesn't know when/how it happened or what the source of this is - meaning yes, it's no longer just an incredibly well programmed 'human mimicking' A.I. - but a new entity, and that's both interesting and a bit scary.
Overall, these last 3 episodes have taken me from being somewhat ambivalent regarding STD and the show's jump to the32nd century - to being interested in this new 32nd century setting and many of transplanted 23c and 32c characters. I hope the trend here can continue.
But yeah, the trend here is giving me hope that maybe the writing room of STD finally can 'stick the landing' on this season arc; but time will tell.
And 3 STD episodes in a row that I very much enjoyed. This for me was another good one, and I liked the way they somewhat interconnected the A and B stories (a Trek storytelling structure I usually loathe, but it worked fine here.)
I REALLY like that they've gone back to the original Star Trek characterizations that involve real humans with honest and valid differing viewpoints who in the end, can discuss and express those views openly, but in the end come to an agreement and move forward still working together (yes, there are two 'rebels' now, but even their motivations make sense and are true to their characters); and further that they've gotten away from the: "This viewpoint is the absolute and most obvious 'correct one'..." - which is how the TNG era mostly handled these type of stories - and yes, there were exceptions to this very occasionally in TNG (especially with DS9); but overall they were in often in 'group think' mode <--- So, yeah, I'm very happy STD is NOT going back to that type of storytelling paradigm, which I was afraid they would ease back into with the 'more enlightened' 32nd century Federation.
As for the Zora storyline, again, I liked that concerns were expressed and discussed, and neither side's views were obviously right or wrong; and I also like how they dealt with A.I. developing into a true sentient 'lifeform' due to an unknown which they don't know came into being. That was always my issue with Data being classified as a 'life form' as he was, in the end, he still was sum of Soong's programming (including the emotion chip Soong created for him), and even though said programming was amazing, he still in the end was just a A.I. mimicking Soong himself in a sense. here we essentially have an organic type 'soul' integrated into an A.I. - and even said A.I. doesn't know when/how it happened or what the source of this is - meaning yes, it's no longer just an incredibly well programmed 'human mimicking' A.I. - but a new entity, and that's both interesting and a bit scary.
Overall, these last 3 episodes have taken me from being somewhat ambivalent regarding STD and the show's jump to the32nd century - to being interested in this new 32nd century setting and many of transplanted 23c and 32c characters. I hope the trend here can continue.
But yeah, the trend here is giving me hope that maybe the writing room of STD finally can 'stick the landing' on this season arc; but time will tell.
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This was a great episode the best Discovery has put out since S2's "If Memory Serves". I gave it a 10. Some highlights:
- The diplomatic scene was well done. Both sides had legitimate points (evidenced by posters on this forum taking each side) and Book and Burnham being on opposite sides was a nice continuation of their relationship arc. I liked the throwback to the butterfly people scene, nice touch. I also think Burnham is getting better at her motivational speeches.
- Exploring Zora's sentience and what she was exactly was interesting. Stamets also performed well in the "devils advocate" role and Kovich was good as always. The nature of what Zora was and how to handle it was thought provoking for me and to be entirely honest, I totally get where Stamets was coming from. I also enjoyed the resolution, the ultimate message of accepting different life forms was core Trek. And Kovich's revelation that Stamets was being evaluated just as much as Zora was a great way to put things into the right perspective. I enjoyed this so much more than last weeks "I'm scared", "You can do this", "OK, and I will also sing a song".
- It felt like Adira and Gray were forced into the Zora scene by the writers to give them something to do. I won't deduct for this because it didn't detract from anything, but still seemed unnecessary.
- What I liked most about this episode is that it advanced the season arc of the DMA without relying on the mystery of the mystery box to keep viewers engaged. Instead, the focus will be on stopping Book and Tarka which I assume will be a cat and mouse hunt situation.
- I hope the writers thought through the implications of giving Book's ship a spore drive. I'm hoping this is temporary and the drive is removed or destroyed by the end of the arc.
- The diplomatic scene was well done. Both sides had legitimate points (evidenced by posters on this forum taking each side) and Book and Burnham being on opposite sides was a nice continuation of their relationship arc. I liked the throwback to the butterfly people scene, nice touch. I also think Burnham is getting better at her motivational speeches.
- Exploring Zora's sentience and what she was exactly was interesting. Stamets also performed well in the "devils advocate" role and Kovich was good as always. The nature of what Zora was and how to handle it was thought provoking for me and to be entirely honest, I totally get where Stamets was coming from. I also enjoyed the resolution, the ultimate message of accepting different life forms was core Trek. And Kovich's revelation that Stamets was being evaluated just as much as Zora was a great way to put things into the right perspective. I enjoyed this so much more than last weeks "I'm scared", "You can do this", "OK, and I will also sing a song".
- It felt like Adira and Gray were forced into the Zora scene by the writers to give them something to do. I won't deduct for this because it didn't detract from anything, but still seemed unnecessary.
- What I liked most about this episode is that it advanced the season arc of the DMA without relying on the mystery of the mystery box to keep viewers engaged. Instead, the focus will be on stopping Book and Tarka which I assume will be a cat and mouse hunt situation.
- I hope the writers thought through the implications of giving Book's ship a spore drive. I'm hoping this is temporary and the drive is removed or destroyed by the end of the arc.
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