Spoilers Hawkeye -Discussion Thread

[theenglish]

Considering the military launched a nuke that would have wiped out the city, killing millions, I've never understood that "blame." Sokovia, yeah.

One thing that has surprised me is how the general public knows what happened in the various movies in fairly in depth detail. There may have been a cover story about the nuke in that it was launched with the intention Iron Man would take over its flight path. But other things, like what happened with Natasha--why would people know that level of detail?

 

[Christopher]

But other things, like what happened with Natasha--why would people know that level of detail?

Well, it was made pretty clear here that Yelena didn't know the specifics of how Natasha died, so I don't think those details were shared publicly.

 

[Reverend]

The story of how she finally got taken seriously. It's completely different in the one-shot vs the series.

Taken seriously by whom, precisely? All we saw in the short was that she was being marginalised by that one particular SSR field office (none of whom were cast members of her show), right before Stark recruits her to found SHIELD. There's no direct contradiction here.

 

[Mage]

Yeah, with a franchise that has two Hawkeyes, an army of Black Widows, and an infinite supply of Lokis, two Shield agents sharing the same number is hardly a concern.

The franchise isn't the problem. It's the legions of fans making it a problem. Which goes for every franchise out there. The huge growth of online platforms to air those problems has made it more apparent, but this has been a thing since for ever.

 

[Christopher]

The franchise isn't the problem. It's the legions of fans making it a problem. Which goes for every franchise out there. The huge growth of online platforms to air those problems has made it more apparent, but this has been a thing since for ever.

"Legions?" Usually it's just a few people making a disproportionate amount of noise. In this case, it's quite easy to see that there's no conflict between AoS's Bobbi Morse and Hawkeye's Laura Barton/Agent 19, given that neither one has explicitly been called Mockingbird at this point. And it's not unheard of for an adaptation to split different aspects of a single character between two different characters (cf. Trevor Slattery and Wenwu, or the Arrowverse's multiple variations on Black Canary). So I doubt that many people really have a problem with it.

 

[Mage]

"Legions?" Usually it's just a few people making a disproportionate amount of noise. In this case, it's quite easy to see that there's no conflict between AoS's Bobbi Morse and Hawkeye's Laura Barton/Agent 19, given that neither one has explicitly been called Mockingbird at this point. And it's not unheard of for an adaptation to split different aspects of a single character between two different characters (cf. Trevor Slattery and Wenwu, or the Arrowverse's multiple variations on Black Canary). So I doubt that many people really have a problem with it.

I kinda thought the hyperbole wouldn't get lost. Sarcasm sucks in the written word I guess. You're going to deep and serious into a comment.

 

[Anwar]

One thing that has surprised me is how the general public knows what happened in the various movies in fairly in depth detail. There may have been a cover story about the nuke in that it was launched with the intention Iron Man would take over its flight path. But other things, like what happened with Natasha--why would people know that level of detail?

I don't think anyone DOES know exactly what happened to Natasha. Just that she died somehow and Hawkeye was there.

The general public finding out about things like time travel being possible would just cause more trouble than its worth.

 

[Christopher]

I kinda thought the hyperbole wouldn't get lost. Sarcasm sucks in the written word I guess. You're going to deep and serious into a comment.

My point, which I guess I neglected to make, is that I don't think the people who actually make the shows consider it a "problem" if some people make noise on the Internet, because they know it's usually just a vocal minority. And because some people will get upset no matter what you do, so creators can't let themselves worry about that.

 

[dupersuper]

Except for the fact that they recently used footage from the Agent Carter One-Shot in Peggy's Marvel Studios Legends episode. So what exactly has been decanonized here?

As far as I can tell: nothing. Bradley Whitford's character took over after the blonde guy was shot in Agent Carter season 2, then we get the short. We even see an alternate version of Whitford's character in What If?.

 

[P Tom]

One hour of Christmas fireplace at Kate Bishop's apartment:

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[Tosk]

As far as I can tell: nothing. Bradley Whitford's character took over after the blonde guy was shot in Agent Carter season 2, then we get the short. We even see an alternate version of Whitford's character in What If?.

One thing that confuses it though is that the first episode of the series uses footage from the short in a montage of stuff she has already done. So if taken literally, the short can't come after the series.

Personally though, I'd just say take both the series and the short as "having happened" and just ignore the little contradictions. No big deal.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

You could argue Thor carries some responsibility for Loki being able to do what he did. Though most people probably wouldn't know anything about that.

Plus there's the part where SHIELD attracted Thanos in the first place, and since the Avengers are basically a shield project at first it's not going to be easy for everyone to separate them conceptually.

Neither of those examples hold any water. Thor isn't responsible for who Loki is or what Loki does, any more than you can control your family members. Same for the Avengers/Shield connection. The Avengers are at best a subsidiary which had no knowledge much less input into research into the Tesseract.

I could see an MCU version of Q-anon posting non-fact based conspiracy theories.

 

[Christopher]

One thing that confuses it though is that the first episode of the series uses footage from the short in a montage of stuff she has already done. So if taken literally, the short can't come after the series.

Stock footage can't always be taken literally, though, since it's often recycled for more than one thing. If it's in a montage, taken out of context, then it doesn't necessarily represent the same events and can just be taken as an approximation or suggestion.

 

[Anwar]

Neither of those examples hold any water. Thor isn't responsible for who Loki is or what Loki does, any more than you can control your family members. Same for the Avengers/Shield connection. The Avengers are at best a subsidiary which had no knowledge much less input into research into the Tesseract.

I could see an MCU version of Q-anon posting non-fact based conspiracy theories.

In AoS there WAS a group that were similar to Q-Anon types, the MCU adaptations of the Watchdogs who blamed Superhumans (including the Avengers) for escalating disasters on Earth and wanted them shut down and all Superbeings registered/locked up.

 

[Commander Troi]

Damn, that was *fun*! I hope we eventually find out why the TF/Fisk wanted the watch.

I would love to see Kate and Yelena have their own miniseries.

Florence killed it in Yelena's confrontation with Clint. Grief and survivor's guilt are potent blinders.

I *adored* putting labels on the arrows! And the LARPers!

More, please!

 

[theenglish]

The chemistry between Kate and Yelena was too great not to have them team up again. The two of them would be great together on an Avengers team carrying on the Black Widow/Hawkeye friendship.

 

[Jayson1]

My idea is for Kate,Yelena teaming up to protect The Swordsman who I also liked in the show from Kingpin. Maybe they go hide in Russia were we see The Red Guardian also come back. What would also be fun is seeing KIngpin out of New York and we find out he has reach beyond just that city. Maybe a cameo from Clint.

 

[cooleddie74]

I wouldn't be surprised if Yelena becomes the new Black Widow and takes her late sister's superhero name in her honor, letting Romanoffs continue the legacy.

 

[Reverend]

Well she already IS Black Window. That's the codename all of the Red Room's assassins are given. Just one more way to remind them how interchangeable and disposable they're supposed to be, I suppose.

But yes, clearly they're setting up Yelena and Kate as the new Black Widow & Hawkeye duo. They already have the same "friends that get into hand-to-hand fights without taking it personally" dynamic Nat & Clint had. (Which they did, a lot . . . a lot a lot.)

Random observation after just re-watching the Black Widow movie; right at the beginning during the prologue, as they're going inside for dinner little Yelena yells out "I want mac and cheese!"
I totally missed that the mac & cheese thing was a callback. Such a neat little detail.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Also, Yelena isn't a Romanoff.