Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x01 - "Kobayashi Maru"

[Sci]

I don’t know specifically what is messing with me so hard either but one example is when Burnham says she is glad Vance’s family is aboard, for no reason at all it sounded to me like she was making a threat.

Objectively she wasn’t, yet I still heard it that way. I think the opener put me in a bad mood given how horrible she is as a diplomat,

She was fine as a diplomat. She made a generous offer to share resources and made it clear it came without any conditions. The Butterfly People were not negotiating in good faith and chose to ignore her clear explanations of what Grudge was in order to find an excuse to assault her.

 

[Lord Garth]

During the first three seasons whenever someone compared DSC to the Kelvin Films, it made me recoil. It pressed my buttons. I got into a pretty heated fight with someone over it on the Zoom Chats here, which is why I stopped hosting them and gave it to someone else, then left shortly thereafter. So we're clear, as much as I'm a fan of DSC, I'm very "in the middle" about the Kelvin Films and I don't really like NuKirk that much, to be honest.

But I have to call a spade a spade. The opening sequence of "Kobayashi Maru" really did remind me of the beginnings of Into Darkness and Beyond. It was fun watching it, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

What they did with the Kelvin Films was model the beginnings after the beginnings of the Bond Films where they have a little pre-credit mini-adventure before they get into what the film is really about. So "Kobayashi Maru" started with a similar sequence showing Burnham doing her normal thing that she's been doing the last five months, before this anomaly appears and Everything Changes.

In TOS you had several action sequences pre-credits. Two immediate example are:

1) "Friday's Child" when a landing party beams down to Campella, which is made up of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and a Redshirt, they seem the Campellans, then they see the Klingons, the Redshirt exclaims, "It's the Klingons!" and then he dies.

2) "A Private Little War" where, once again, the landing party beams down, then Spock is shot, and has to be beamed up and taken to Sickbay. Cue opening credits.

And there are more examples. But those aren't teasers that tell a complete story. Those teasers led into the meat of what the episode was going to be, and isn't something that could exist independently of the main story. Whereas the openings of "Kobayashi Maru", Into Darkness, Beyond, and the Bond Films could all exist independently as short stories in and of themselves.

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Also, the reason I say Burnham's story is more akin to paralleling NuKirk than Kirk in TWOK is because NuKirk was an inexperienced Captain who gains experience. TWOK's Kirk is about someone who's turned 50 (forget what the Star Trek Chronology says, it's obvious from the story that Kirk's turning 50, from the way he's acting and the way it's written) and is pining for the old days of when he was a Captain. He's careless because he's out of practice and has to get back into the swing of things. NuKirk and Burnham, on the other hand, are or will be careless because they're inexperienced and have to gain that experience.

Burnham is obviously a very different character from NuKirk, and I like Burnham a lot more, but the arc and where they're at in their career stages is similar. Although, unlike NuKirk, Burnham actually spent 10 years in the lower ranks. So maybe a case can also be made that Burnham is like Kirk either at the start of TOS or just before the start of TOS, but she's not at a point in her life where she'd be like Kirk in TWOK.

 

[jackoverfull]

but one example is when Burnham says she is glad Vance’s family is aboard, for no reason at all it sounded to me like she was making a threat.

I think Vance might have mentioned his family at some point last season. But if so it was really a passing statement and in this episode it came quite out of the blue and felt very weird to me.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The transporters didnt work because of damage to Discovery? I thought the entire point was that they were miniaturised individual transporters, a la Star Trek Nemesis??

Oh Discovery, you took 1 season to go back on your magical future tech. If that stuff needs a ship and the badges are just remote controls, how were Book and Michael beaming all over a planet in the first episode of season 3??

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Oh Discovery, you took 1 season to go back on your magical future tech. If that stuff needs a ship and the badges are just remote controls, how were Book and Michael beaming all over a planet in the first episode of season 3??

‪‪I also thought they were totally individualized transporters, and I agree that was a bit of a weak excuse, *but* that being said, Book’s ship was on that planet.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I think Vance might have mentioned his family at some point last season. But if so it was really a passing statement and in this episode it came quite out of the blue and felt very weird to me.

Why? We actually see him with his family briefly in this episode.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

They should have destroyed a core federation planet, or another named planet from a previous series.

I wanted to learn more about Books people over the next few years, but that's all gone to dust.

As soon as they started all that tired "tree of life" stuff I was praying for a Deathstar, or a Titan or someone to start dropping rocks

 

[thribs]

I’m still confused how frozen fart gas was doing so much damage to the Discovery. This is supposed to be the 32nd century

 

[Timo]

‪‪I also thought they were totally individualized transporters, and I agree that was a bit of a weak excuse, *but* that being said, Book’s ship was on that planet.

It certainly can't be a centralized resource, or else the folks from the Mercantile would simply have accessed the center (it would have been theirs to play with, on that planet) and zoomed in on Book that way.

But it might well be that a centralized resource has to be added in difficult conditions - "starship sensors going down inside Bassen Rift resulting in shuttlecraft transporters becoming useless" is a simple way to explain ST:NEM, say. In a stormy downpour, you don't just drive your Jeep like usual, you need a solid road under the wheels, and preferably some streetlights or a GPS/compass reliant on external cues.

Could be a range thing, too, all the Hima action having been highly localized originally (they ended up at Book's ship which presumably was where he first met Burnham and thus within a walking distance of the Mercantile where they left) but the ranges involved did not appear exceptional here...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DaveyNY]

You can have 50 elevators all operating independantly in the same building, but if something interrupts the main power they all stop working.

 

[seigezunt]

It was a lot of fun, but I have to admit my crankiness about the whole overseas Netflix deal hindered my enjoyment. So much that I watched it the day after it dropped, something I never do.

 

[cooleddie74]

All the turbolifts in the 1701-D ceased working in "Disaster(TNG)" when the power crashed, with Picard and three children trapped inside. Even in the 24th century when the central generator goes down you lose everything that can't be routed to a backup generator.

 

[Noname Given]

The transporters didnt work because of damage to Discovery? I thought the entire point was that they were miniaturised individual transporters, a la Star Trek Nemesis??

Oh Discovery, you took 1 season to go back on your magical future tech. If that stuff needs a ship and the badges are just remote controls, how were Book and Michael beaming all over a planet in the first episode of season 3??

Per dialog, they still require a working Transporter Array (which would make sense - IE how can a single pinned on device dematerialize - 'move' - rematerialize? That's more magic than actual technology); and they stated both the ship and the stations transporter arrays were down/offline - although you'd think that the 32nd century shuttles would have their own since they did 900 years earlier. .

 

[jackoverfull]

Per dialog, they still require a working Transporter Array (which would make sense - IE how can a single pinned on device dematerialize - 'move' - rematerialize? That's more magic than actual technology); and they stated both the ship and the stations transporter arrays were down/offline - although you'd think that the 32nd century shuttles would have their own since they did 900 years earlier. .

yet in nemesis the portable transporter worked fine while the enterprise’s one was down.

 

[Go-Captain]

I think Vance might have mentioned his family at some point last season. But if so it was really a passing statement and in this episode it came quite out of the blue and felt very weird to me.

We see him with his family in the academy scene. It was nice but I complete forgot he mentioned them in the previous season.

Per dialog, they still require a working Transporter Array (which would make sense - IE how can a single pinned on device dematerialize - 'move' - rematerialize? That's more magic than actual technology); and they stated both the ship and the stations transporter arrays were down/offline - although you'd think that the 32nd century shuttles would have their own since they did 900 years earlier. .

They had independent mini transporters since VOY, and Data’s death in Nemesis revolves around him having a one way coin size transporter which works while the ship’s transporters are all dead. Tom Paris used a fist sized transporter maybe in the episode where Kim is in an alternate timeline. So this is old tech, and memory alpha contributors also thought the tricomm badges were self beaming.

DIS has a terrible track record remembering it’s own context, but it’s still surprising every time it contradicts itself.

This is absolutely bizarre. SMG didn't deliver the line in a threatening way and Vance didn't interpret it that way. How you managed to is really beyond me. You should probably stop watching at this point.

I’m seriously considering not watching it any more. I’ve watched all of it up to now and never once had felt dissonance between the objective qualities of the scene and what I was feeling in response.

As for Burnham's diplomacy skills, Captains with more experience have made mistakes during similar situations. Let's not forget that Janeway managed to screw up a first contact with the Tak Tak by putting her hands on her hips and negotiations had to be saved by Neelix of all people.

The difference is Janeway goes in ignorant, such as with Archer doing something similar in ENT, I think it was something with Porthos.

In contrast. Burnham goes in with the implication she has information, since she brings up the strained relationship pre-Burn. It is also obvious the butterfly people are misinterpreting everything she says, and instead of slowing down she and Book keep talking faster and causal like they’re all friends.

Burnham could have bugged out at any time and left the dilithium behind, because that’s what they do anyway. It’s not like the locals realized she fixed their satellites before she leaves, they were firing until the last moment. Running to the ship also served no purpose because beaming exists.

 

[fireproof78]

such as with Archer doing something similar in ENT, I think it was something with Porthos.

Archer was not ignorant. He had experience with the race before, and knew they were easily offended, and still brought an animal along with them.

Seriously! Stop bringing animals to negotiations! No dogs, not cats, no nothing!

DIS has a terrible track record remembering it’s own context, but it’s still surprising every time it contradicts itself.

I've become a little bit more accustom to this largely because I have been attempting to watch more Trek, like TOS. When you watch things back to back the contradictions stand out more. For me, it's just part for the course.

 

[Go-Captain]

Archer was not ignorant. He had experience with the race before, and new they were easily offended, and still brought an animal along with them.

Seriously! Stop bringing animals to negotiations! No dogs, not cats, no nothing!


I've become a little bit more accustom to this largely because I have been attempting to watch more Trek, like TOS. When you watch things back to back the contradictions stand out more. For me, it's just part for the course.

I think it’s easier to brush over negatives as long as other parts are strong enough. For instance Prodigy has a set of things which bother me but it nails the characterization, the plot is good, and it’s presentation of Trek philosophy surpasses all the other shows. They could say warp engines are powered by mud and I might give it a pass because I think the rest is so good.

Same with Lower Decks, the level of silliness got to me in the season 2 opener, but I loved everything else. Besides which it ends just as strongly as season 1 and doesn’t make the kind of technical mistakes which usually bother me.

S4 Ep1 of DIS though is flipped in comparison to the other two. There is only a handful of things I like which are quickly overshadowed by new and annoyingly old problems. I actually gave the first two seasons a pass in regard to canon, because it obviously wasn’t trying and because it managed to at least be entertaining. Season 3 though it was a lot harder not to think of canon because the whole point seemed to be to avoid canon conflicts yet it was full of them.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Was watching "Peak Performance" earlier today and it made me think of Rillak's criticism of Burnham risking the many for the few. That's exactly what Picard does in that episode with the Away Team on the Hathaway (The Hath-Away Team?). And Kolrami says nearly the same thing to Picard as Rillak. Of course, Picard tells Kolrami to shove it.

That's the job of doing business. Risk is part of it, as a previous captain of the Enterprise said once.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it’s easier to brush over negatives as long as other parts are strong enough. For instance Prodigy has a set of things which bother me but it nails the characterization, the plot is good, and it’s presentation of Trek philosophy surpasses all the other shows. They could say warp engines are powered by mud and I might give it a pass because I think the rest is so good.

Same with Lower Decks, the level of silliness got to me in the season 2 opener, but I loved everything else. Besides which it ends just as strongly as season 1 and doesn’t make the kind of technical mistakes which usually bother me.

S4 Ep1 of DIS though is flipped in comparison to the other two. There is only a handful of things I like which are quickly overshadowed by new and annoyingly old problems.

Agreed, which is why DSC will always be good to me. The characters sell it every single time.

So, it might not be for you.

 

[Go-Captain]

Agreed, which is why DSC will always be good to me. The characters sell it every single time.

So, it might not be for you.

If DIS were the Saru, Stamets/Culver, Tilly show I would be right with you. Tig too, she doesn’t get anywhere near enough time.