According to the writer's guide quoted in The Making of Star Trek, Kirk's mother is alive as of the end of season 2.
Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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Not evident in any series or movie, so, nope.
Based on the limited references in TCOTK, isn't anybody curious (i.e. fan service) about which family member child Kirk was living with and probably murdered in front of him? Between his parents, only his mother is not given a backstory on screen, so, based on probabilities, mother is the leading candidate in my opinion. YMVV
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I usually agree with you on this...but I'm genuinely curious on Kirk's life changing backstory from TCOTK. I'm a confused mess grasping at scant straws.
A big sticking point for me is Kirk stating his age as 34 in “The Deadly Years.” At that point in time it strikes me as a bit too young.
In WNMHGB Kirk has been in command of the Enterprise for at least a few months to perhaps a year or so. Presumably after the events of WNMHGB the Enterprise is refit and relaunched upon the familiar 5-year mission, and about two or so years later we get the events of “The Deadly Years.” Put together this suggests Kirk was given command of the Enterprise at about 30 or 31 years of age. Maybe it’s me, but that strikes me as maybe being a tad too young for him to get command of one of Starfleet’s finest ships, and considering every other starship Captain we see is older by easily ten years or more.
But what if we can’t take Kirk’s statement in “The Deadly Years” at face value? During that event Kirk is suffering from an accelerated aging condition that is no doubt messing with his mind as well as his body. We even see the effects on his mind. What if Kirk isn’t stating his age at that actual moment, but he is recalling his age when he achieved his life’s ambition: command of a starship, an ambition he is in threat of losing because of his diminishing capacity?
If Kirk is about 33-35 in WNMHGB then he could have met Mitchell fifteen years earlier when he was 18-20.
Just a thought.
In WNMHGB Kirk has been in command of the Enterprise for at least a few months to perhaps a year or so. Presumably after the events of WNMHGB the Enterprise is refit and relaunched upon the familiar 5-year mission, and about two or so years later we get the events of “The Deadly Years.” Put together this suggests Kirk was given command of the Enterprise at about 30 or 31 years of age. Maybe it’s me, but that strikes me as maybe being a tad too young for him to get command of one of Starfleet’s finest ships, and considering every other starship Captain we see is older by easily ten years or more.
But what if we can’t take Kirk’s statement in “The Deadly Years” at face value? During that event Kirk is suffering from an accelerated aging condition that is no doubt messing with his mind as well as his body. We even see the effects on his mind. What if Kirk isn’t stating his age at that actual moment, but he is recalling his age when he achieved his life’s ambition: command of a starship, an ambition he is in threat of losing because of his diminishing capacity?
If Kirk is about 33-35 in WNMHGB then he could have met Mitchell fifteen years earlier when he was 18-20.
Just a thought.
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"Erwin, let the damn cat out!"
Based on the limited references in TCOTK, isn't anybody curious (i.e. fan service) about which family member child Kirk was living with and probably murdered in front of him? Between his parents, only his mother is not given a backstory on screen, so, based on probabilities, mother is the leading candidate in my opinion. YMVV
There is no proof that Kirk lost a single family member at Tarsus IV, or even that Kirk was with any family members at Tarsus IV.
It is possible that Kirk was going to or returning from spending his summer vacation with his father at a starbase or something, and for some reason Kirk lost his transportation and was stranded on Tarsus IV right before the disaster began.
Maybe Kirk, preparing to enter Starfleet academy, joined the outer space boy (who might also include girls) scouts or something and they went on a field trip to some of the safest colony planets in the Federation where nothing bad ever happens. But when their ship landed on Tarsus IV, a desparate mob immediately took it over and fled in it, leaving them stranded on Tarsus IV. Maybe Kirk was the only survivor of his group.
Or maybe Kirk was visiting his favorate aunt and uncle and his favorite cousins on Tarsus IV, and Kirk was the only survivor.
Or maybe Kirk visited with his father and mother, his brother Sam being in school and unable to come, when the famine broke out and one or both of Kirk's parents were killed. There are claims that both parents were alive decades later, but if someone doesn't accept those sources as canon they can speculate that Kirk's father, or mother, or both were killed by Kodos.
Some of the people at the hearing were trying to show that Kirk was no longer fit for command. So if Kirk said that he was younger than his actual age they would have mentoned it.
There sems to be to me only a small doubt about Kirk's age.
Since Star Trek is a science fiction show, it is possible for characters to have all sorts of strange science fiction experiences. So it is possible that Kirk has several different ages recorded in his personnnel file, each one calculated a different way. So possibly 34 was only one of Kirk's ages on file in "The Deadly Years", and it was not considerd an error but a rhetorical choice for Kirk to mention his youngest official age out of two or more.
You are also making an assumption about the relative order of various TOS episodes. The most common orders to put TOS episodes in are production order, stardate order, and broadcast order. There is no proof that TOS episodes happen in any of those orders; they are jsut commmon assumptions that the episodes happen in those orders..
The "Short Treks episode "Ephraim and Dot" seems to have glimpses of scenes from TOS episodes. And the order of those scenes is different from the produciton order, and from the stardate order, and from the broadcast order of thsoe episodes. So if "Ephraim and Dot" is canonical with TOS, arbitrarily putting episodes in production order, stardate order, or broadcast order, is impossible, because there a clear examples of episodes not in any of those orders.
That would mean that the only clue to the relative order of two TOS epiodes would be if one episode was a sequel to the other episode. And there are probably only a dozen or so such sets of episodes in all of TOS.
With any other set of 2 TOS episodes that happened during the five year mission (thus possibly but not certainly excluding "Where No Man Has Gone before") Episode A could be up to almost 6 years before or after epiosode B, and episode B could be up to almost 6 years before or after episode A.
So if Kirk is aged 34.000 to 34.999 during "The Deadly Years", he must be at least 28.001 but under 40.998, in any other episodes of the five year mission. And of course his total age range during the five year mission must be less than or equal to 5.999 years, otherwise it would be called the six year mission.
It is uncertain whether "Where No Man Has Gone before" isbeforeor during the five year mission. So at the present there is no proof that Kirk would be any less than 28.001 during "Where No Man Has Gone before", though of course that is possible.
And it is perfectly possible for "Where No Man Has Gone before" to happen only 0.1 years before or after "The Deadly Years", for example. That would make Kirk aged somewhere between 33.900 and 35,099 during "Where No Man Has Gone before".
There is no absolute proof of the time interval between "Where No Man Has Gone before" and "The Deadly Years" and so no proof of what age Kirk would have to have in "Where No Man Has Gone before" if he was 34 in "The Deadly Years".
It wouldn’t be unusual for a group of people who care greatly for an individual suffering from a serious illness to choose not to argue with him. A diminished Kirk claiming he was 34 would be a pointless thing to contest while his deteriorating state was on full display. Why humiliate him further?
Kirk seemed to do A LOT as a cadet/ensign:
- Witnessed the Tarsus IV incident (and later canon (STIV:TVH has him growing up in Iowa, so what was he doing on Tarsus IV in his youth to be a part of that incident?)
- Served aboard the U.S.S. Repubic (TOS S2 - "Court Martial")
- Was a part of the "Vulcanian Expedition" (TOS S2 - "Court Martial")
- Served aboard the U.S.S. Farragut (TOS S2 - "Obsession")
- As was still on of Gary Mitchell's instructors at the Academy (TOS S1 - "Where No Man Has Gone Before")
- Worked up an impressive list of Star Fleet medals and citations for a myriad on events in his career (Some possibly that we didn't see while he was ion command of the Enterprise) - (TOS S2 - "Court Martial")
But yeah, given his career; I would have no issue seeing him as a full Captain and in command of a Starship by age 30 or so. If Captain Kirk is modeled on the also fictional Horatio Hornblower, that character also rose through the ranks quickly.
Though he was a lieutenant by then.
I believe Hornblower reached post-captain (which would now be commander) around age 29, then three more years to full captain level, which was quick but not unheard of (Lord Nelson was captain at 21!). But, he would only have to be promoted three times, versus six promotions for Kirk. Also in those days there was no school for officers so midshipmen were serving in the active fleet in their teens, which may have had a bearing on the early "Conscience of the King" idea mentioned by Maurice.
I did say modelled - not just wholesale copied.
I meant only to expand on your remarks, not to contradict.
I just ignore that as an example of the space tardigrade's time/space warping travel method.
I'm just going to pop this in here, even if it's out of order. Hubby and I watched the first episode of Star Trek: The Animated Series this week, "Beyond the Farthest Star". I don't think I've seen this (or any TAS) since I was a little kid, but I *instantly* recognized the TAS "danger music", which was a nice surprise! I was 5 years old when this first aired - I can't find any information on if they re-ran these or not, but I think they did, so I may have been a little older when I saw them. Or not.
Ah, Filmation. I don't think I was ever thrilled with the animation style. The stock shots (to save money) have always been pretty easy to spot. BUT, animation allowed them to do that *amazing* alien ship! I love the design. Written by the same person who wrote "Where No Man Has Gone Before", this is a super-cool story.
I was a little confused about the "negative star mass" - I thought that created a black hole, which this obviously is not - but was soon caught up in the story enough to forget about it. A 300 million year old ship with a design based on hexagons for an insectoid species and made from some kind of techno-organic metal? Love it! Also, the energy absorption and storage seems like a brilliant engineering idea.
I know the life support belts were introduced for practical animation reasons, but they seem insanely sensible to me. Also, why didn't Kirk ask for a transporter lock *all the time*! Again, it just seems like a sensible thing to do when going into a possibly-dangerous location.
The control center scene, with the log entry and the "something's trying to break in", is well done and builds suspense nicely. The magnetic organism itself, and the ability to take over the Enterprise in a symbiotic manner, are fascinating concepts. Kirk is both smart *and* clever here, which was nice. It was also good to see the familiar slingshot maneuver again.
Oh, that ending! Haunting. Even though it acted pretty horribly, it's still heart-wrenching to hear those final pleas:
"Don't leave me alone! Please! Please! So lonely...!"
Doohan did a terrific job with that (and all the other voices he did).
All in all, a nice, tight half-hour show with some cool ideas and visuals. Watching the rest of these should be fun.
Ah, Filmation. I don't think I was ever thrilled with the animation style. The stock shots (to save money) have always been pretty easy to spot. BUT, animation allowed them to do that *amazing* alien ship! I love the design. Written by the same person who wrote "Where No Man Has Gone Before", this is a super-cool story.
I was a little confused about the "negative star mass" - I thought that created a black hole, which this obviously is not - but was soon caught up in the story enough to forget about it. A 300 million year old ship with a design based on hexagons for an insectoid species and made from some kind of techno-organic metal? Love it! Also, the energy absorption and storage seems like a brilliant engineering idea.
I know the life support belts were introduced for practical animation reasons, but they seem insanely sensible to me. Also, why didn't Kirk ask for a transporter lock *all the time*! Again, it just seems like a sensible thing to do when going into a possibly-dangerous location.
The control center scene, with the log entry and the "something's trying to break in", is well done and builds suspense nicely. The magnetic organism itself, and the ability to take over the Enterprise in a symbiotic manner, are fascinating concepts. Kirk is both smart *and* clever here, which was nice. It was also good to see the familiar slingshot maneuver again.
Oh, that ending! Haunting. Even though it acted pretty horribly, it's still heart-wrenching to hear those final pleas:
"Don't leave me alone! Please! Please! So lonely...!"
Doohan did a terrific job with that (and all the other voices he did).
All in all, a nice, tight half-hour show with some cool ideas and visuals. Watching the rest of these should be fun.
I'm just going to pop this in here, even if it's out of order. Hubby and I watched the first episode of Star Trek: The Animated Series this week, "Beyond the Farthest Star". I don't think I've seen this (or any TAS) since I was a little kid, but I *instantly* recognized the TAS "danger music", which was a nice surprise! I was 5 years old when this first aired - I can't find any information on if they re-ran these or not, but I think they did, so I may have been a little older when I saw them. Or not.
It wasn't seen often after the original run, but Nickelodeon ran the series in the 80's in the afternoons. Maybe that's when you caught them.
I love this episode, it's easily one of my favorites.
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