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Unseen TOS....

There are three Jefferies markers that give some sense of how things evolved in his mind- the DY-100 was a pre-warp planetary ship, the XCV-330 was an early warp ship, and then NCC-1701 was a starship.

No Nacelles > Ring > Nacelles

It’s up to each person to speculate how it might evolve between those three benchmarks, but it seems to indicate to me that to be consistent with that seeming progression, an E-R War era ship is as likely to have a ring as nacelles. If not more so.
 
Are there any development sketches for the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" similar to the Enterprise and Klingon Battlecruiser development sketches you could use as inspiration for Romulan Earth/Romulan War vessels?

I don't have my "Star Trek Sketchbook" to hand, and can't remember if it had any.
 
I bought the game in '77. It's a table top game. I do play games. Sorry, no video games in '77, unless you count pong.

I remember there were games for sale that came on a cassette tape you loaded into a computer. I thought Ogre was one of those, but I didn't play it so, I'm probably wrong.
A version of Ogre was released as a video game in 1986. The mid 80s would be the tail end of the era of loading software off of cassette tapes, with floppies rising in prominence. Anecdotally, a friend was still loading The Bard's Tale off of a cassette tape in 1986.
 
The mid 80s would be the tail end of the era of loading software off of cassette tapes, with floppies rising in prominence. Anecdotally, a friend was still loading The Bard's Tale off of a cassette tape in 1986.
Ah, the nostalgia/sometimes frustration of cassette loading of computer games. Those were the days!;):lol:

My first version of the classic "Elite" for the BBC Microcomputer was on cassette!:eek:
 
Are there any development sketches for the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" similar to the Enterprise and Klingon Battlecruiser development sketches you could use as inspiration for Romulan Earth/Romulan War vessels?

I don't have my "Star Trek Sketchbook" to hand, and can't remember if it had any.
Never seen any sketches of spaceships from "Balance". There are plenty of concept sketches for the Klingon ship tho.
 
Are there any development sketches for the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" similar to the Enterprise and Klingon Battlecruiser development sketches you could use as inspiration for Romulan Earth/Romulan War vessels?
To the best of my knowledge over all these years I have never seen any sketches from Wah Chang regarding any of his designs. If any exist and if any have ever surfaced I have never seen them.
 
Since the original script for BOT had the lines about the Romulans having stolen Earth's ship designs (with respect to the saucer section and nacelles) it is pretty likely that that would have been Wah Chang's starting point
 
Since the original script for BOT had the lines about the Romulans having stolen Earth's ship designs (with respect to the saucer section and nacelles) it is pretty likely that that would have been Wah Chang's starting point
Following that line of thinking would suggest the Romulans started the war with ships wholly of their own design then started using Earth based designs after salvaging/capturing derelicts. Or the Romulans had ships that just happened to follow the same general design logic as Earth ships wherein some could assume the Romulans must have stolen the designs.

I am not automatically assuming Earth ships of the mid 22nd century were already sporting saucers although nacelles could already have evolved from rings.

The Romulan Bird of Prey really bears only a passing resemblance to the Enterprise in terms of a main hull that resembles a saucer when seen somewhat head on and with cylindrical nacelles sprouting from the side. Are we to assume the BoP is using the same basic design as they used a century earlier. ENT went with that logic and with a design that actually looked more advanced than the original from “Balance Of Terror.”

The only small clue we have is Styles asserting that the old Romulan ships were painted like giant birds of prey. So the question is did the older ships just sport that ornamentation on their hulls or did at least some of their designs actually somewhat mimic the form of a bird of prey in flight?
 
The only small clue we have is Styles asserting that the old Romulan ships were painted like giant birds of prey. So the question is did the older ships just sport that ornamentation on their hulls or did at least some of their designs actually somewhat mimic the form of a bird of prey in flight?
My interpretation of Styles' line is that back in the 22nd century the presence of the birdy paint job was the ONLY constant between numerous ship designs of the Romulans. That's quite apart from the fact that a century had passed between the two superpowers without any (known) contact
 
The only small clue we have is Styles asserting that the old Romulan ships were painted like giant birds of prey. So the question is did the older ships just sport that ornamentation on their hulls or did at least some of their designs actually somewhat mimic the form of a bird of prey in flight?
I would say you have the bird of prey design painted, otherwise, you might end up with FASA looking designs, created 20 years after TOS was filmed.

Don't envy you here, this might be a tough one! Best of luck!:techman::cool:
 
My interpretation of Styles' line is that back in the 22nd century the presence of the birdy paint job was the ONLY constant between numerous ship designs of the Romulans. That's quite apart from the fact that a century had passed between the two superpowers without any (known) contact
Ninja posted by @Mytran. But that's a VERY good point!:techman::techman::techman::techman:
 
My interpretation of Styles' line is that back in the 22nd century the presence of the birdy paint job was the ONLY constant between numerous ship designs of the Romulans. That's quite apart from the fact that a century had passed between the two superpowers without any (known) contact
That seems the most logical.

There is a limit to how much (somewhat) real world logic one can apply to this, but the question arises: just how far is Romulan space from Earth? Was Earth ever really in jeopardy during the war or was this war mostly on the frontier (as far as Earth is concerned)?

The Romulans are offshoots of the Vulcans. Were they transplanted, maybe by the Preservers, or did they migrate off Vulcan on their own? Post TOS books and later productions favour the latter, but when BOT was being made that was not established. Spock certainly didn’t elaborate on this point.

If we accept that Vulcan is not that far from Earth (accepting 40 Eridani as Vulcan’s home star) then in extent Romulan space mightn’t be too much farther from Earth either. If Romulans left Vulcan at some point in the past (in “primitive” ships) just how long could they have been in flight and how far did they get into space (and in which direction)? One of the older Pocket Books dealt with this subject decently and suggests Romulans were in flight for a few centuries and thus managed to get some distance from Vulcan. If this all happened within, say, the past thousand years then neither Vulcan nor Romulan really developed much in terms of spaceflight—they had interstellar spaceflight centuries before Earth and yet they were no more advanced than Earth when they came into conflict in the mid 22nd century or when they crossed the Neutral Zone in TOS.

So this gets us to the next question: considering distance and level of technology: what was more likely—a war of about 4 years duration as put forth in the Official Chronology or a conflict of 20-25 years as put forth in the James Blish adaptation of the original episode?

A short duration conflict still allows the Federation to be founded in the latter mid 22nd century whereas a protracted conflict pushes the founding into the late 22nd or maybe even early 23rd century. And note that in TOS there seems to ba subtext suggesting the Federation isn’t all that old, maybe only a few decades by the time of TOS.

Yeah, yeah, TNG and the rest “officially” establish the bare bones backstory, but in 1966 none of that existed yet, so it’s still largely a blank canvas.

So what have we got?
- WNMHGB establishes FTL ships exist in the mid to late 21st century. Early ships are essentially cylindrical in configuration with a space warp ring or rings to create a warp field (as already conjectured upthread).
- Earth/Romulan war set about 100 years before TOS. (Does this mean it started 100 years prior, ended 100 years prior or the mid point is 100 years prior?)
- “Primitive” ships with atomic weapons. (I think we can also assume energy weapons also existed.)
- Subspace radio, but no visual communication. (This doesn’t preclude any in-person face-to-face contact if any presumably destroyed ships were actually taken and the crews executed or taken hostage. Knowing your enemies physiology could be valuable intel. Suffice to say neither side appears willing to own up to this possibility.)
- Jose Tyler’s remark in “The Menagerie” that “the time barrier has been broken” might simply mean TOS era ships are significantly faster than what came before (possibly due to Daystrom’s more advanced duotronic computer systems that can handle the complex computations of navigation and propulsion systems management at significantly higher warp speeds).
 
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I hate the thought of Romulus being anything but near Vulcan, because of the hoops you need to go through imagining Vulcans undertaking interstellar movement of a significant part of their population thousands of years before the TOS present. But having it be close to Vulcan makes no sense either.

The only way I can make a distant Romulus make sense is if Vulcan was quite advanced, with near-warp technology, in the distant past, and underwent a much more destructive civil war than has been described. It was then thrown into a dark ages that lasted a very, very long time.

As for the Earth-Romulan War, I see it as a race from the ring-based drives Jefferies shows us as a “middle developmental stage” to the paired nacelle warp drive that will allow the side that gets it first to run circles around its enemy.

Earth gets it first. So Romulan and Earth ships start the war with similar, ring-based ships, but Earth ends it with something more akin to Daedalus.
 
I loosely envisioned ringed ships evolving to quad and tri nacelle arrangements then eventually dual and even singular nacelle (as posited in FJ’s tech manual) configurations. Masao’s Avenger-class is very cool so I can easily some Starfleet, Federation and alien ships having this configuration.

In years past I worked out a Deadalus like design that actually had three nacelles and I still think it works and can fit into the starship evolutionary line.

Here is something related to it: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-constellation.276295/
 
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- Subspace radio, but no visual communication.
I think it's fair to assume from our own advances in communications technology that the 'no visuals' was a deliberate choice by the Romulans to keep secrets from their enemies, and to maintain a sense of discord when dealing with them.
 
As for the war’s duration, I like the idea of putting both a shorter war and long build up together. The Romulan system is discovered and explored by one or two missions over the course of ten to fifteen years that result in the ships being lost. That fits with the Carrizal discovering it and the Balboa following up on that discovery, which is how Diane Duane describes it iirc. That leads to more confrontations and eventually, war. So the conflict is 2135-2160 or so with the last few years a hot war.
 
"All Our Yesterdays" puts the barbaric period of Vulcan to 5,000 years prior to TOS so that would give the Vulcan offshoots (Romulans) plenty of years to move far away from Vulcan and Vulcan's colonies to be effectively forgotten. If warp drive was available during the Earth-Romulan War then I doubt it would've ended with the draw that we see in TOS as whoever had it would have a huge advantage. It would be interesting if it was fought almost exclusively with impulse engines, fusion warheads and lasers... IMHO.
 
It would be interesting if it was fought almost exclusively with impulse engines, fusion warheads and lasers... IMHO.

How would opposing sides even meet to fight? They would take decades to reach each other. They’d forget what they were fighting over before they even started.
 
In TOS we saw ships in combat at warp speeds. A century earlier that likely might not have been possible. You warp to your destination then combat is at sublight speeds, somewhat like ships in Babylon 5 jumping interstellar distance then maneuvers are at sublight.

What is defined as war might also be a matter of perspective. Earth ships disappearing over years raises suspicions of hostility. To the Romulans a simple encroachment into their space is akin to an act of war. To Earth the war starts when the Romulans come out of their system en masse.
 
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