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Section 31: I hope it still happens.

I hope they take a more "mature" (my description) approach to S31 if they ever actually put it into production. So far in DIS S2, their approach was very "network" cool - like silver catsuits, or decon gel scenes, eyeball gouging, or having a top secret intel organization go around with black ships, black leather uniforms, and their own special combages to openly tell everyone who they are - things that "suits" think are cool or edgy, but come out as tired or silly given any perspective. I just don't know if they can get away from it.
I guess that will be the difference. I don't see it as cool or edgy. It works within the milieu of the overall story, and no different than the past Trek, other than it's on streaming so there is a bit more gore. Again, though, if gore is a disqualifier I'll happily toss out TWOK as "real Trek."
 
I guess that will be the difference. I don't see it as cool or edgy. It works within the milieu of the overall story, and no different than the past Trek, other than it's on streaming so there is a bit more gore. Again, though, if gore is a disqualifier I'll happily toss out TWOK as "real Trek."

I don't have a problem with the gore itself, but the context. Tyler's flashbacks to his "torture" were appropriate when portrayed as part of his PTSD. But when he is secretly Voq, and those scenes were actually just almost equally tortuous, voluntary medical procedures (still basically leading to PTSD), the message about PTSD, if there was one, gets lost in the larger "it's just Klingon spycraft" plot. The same way that Icheb's ice gouging, or Seven's being "forced" to mercy kill him, either of which would be strong story points to center an insightful Seven storyline around, gets lost in the larger action/revenge plot against campy Freecloud gangsters. Or the way Jurati's coerced murder of her mentor/lover Bruce Maddox got almost totally ignored - unless season 2 follows up with her mention of turning herself in.

It's just that each of these elements could be used to good effect to explore these characters in the right context. But the show has no time for them, and instead of thinking "do we really want to have our main character (Seven or Jurati) be responsible for the death of their loved one if we don't have any time to follow that up?" it just sweeps them under the rug with a single sentence or doesn't even bother to address them. Maybe they were hoping writers of later episodes could address them, and it just never happened. Given the unlimited runtimes streaming on Paramount+ can support, this would be the perfect time for some "Pillar filler": add a couple of character-heavy (and budget-efficient!) scenes where a couple main characters have insightful, meaningful conversations about what crazy crap they just had to deal with.

But these shows can't slow down long enough to deal with the actual events they include. If they had 20 or 26 episodes per season, they could devote a whole episode to Seven experiencing and then dealing with the trauma of killing Icheb (like the did when dealing with the trauma of her parents in "The Raven"). But they only have 10 episodes for all of these stories and characters, so instead of realizing they don't have the time to cover it, they still include the eye thing and the killing him with a phaser thing, and never really deal with it again. In the end, Seven is happily canoodling with Rafi and ready for her next Space Adventure (TM). I guess Picard season 2 still has the opportunity to address some of these, but I think the chances are about 10%. I think at best, we might get a line from Seven to Rafi about Icheb. Or a one-off line saying Jurati's case has been reviewed by Starfleet JAG, or whoever, and not prosecuted. But I am not holding out hope.
 
I don't have a problem with the gore itself, but the context. Tyler's flashbacks to his "torture" were appropriate when portrayed as part of his PTSD. But when he is secretly Voq, and those scenes were actually just almost equally tortuous, voluntary medical procedures (still basically leading to PTSD), the message about PTSD, if there was one, gets lost in the larger "it's just Klingon spycraft" plot. The same way that Icheb's ice gouging, or Seven's being "forced" to mercy kill him, either of which would be strong story points to center an insightful Seven storyline around, gets lost in the larger action/revenge plot against campy Freecloud gangsters. Or the way Jurati's coerced murder of her mentor/lover Bruce Maddox got almost totally ignored - unless season 2 follows up with her mention of turning herself in.

It's just that each of these elements could be used to good effect to explore these characters in the right context. But the show has no time for them, and instead of thinking "do we really want to have our main character (Seven or Jurati) be responsible for the death of their loved one if we don't have any time to follow that up?" it just sweeps them under the rug with a single sentence or doesn't even bother to address them. Maybe they were hoping writers of later episodes could address them, and it just never happened. Given the unlimited runtimes streaming on Paramount+ can support, this would be the perfect time for some "Pillar filler": add a couple of character-heavy (and budget-efficient!) scenes where a couple main characters have insightful, meaningful conversations about what crazy crap they just had to deal with.

But these shows can't slow down long enough to deal with the actual events they include. If they had 20 or 26 episodes per season, they could devote a whole episode to Seven experiencing and then dealing with the trauma of killing Icheb (like the did when dealing with the trauma of her parents in "The Raven"). But they only have 10 episodes for all of these stories and characters, so instead of realizing they don't have the time to cover it, they still include the eye thing and the killing him with a phaser thing, and never really deal with it again. In the end, Seven is happily canoodling with Rafi and ready for her next Space Adventure (TM). I guess Picard season 2 still has the opportunity to address some of these, but I think the chances are about 10%. I think at best, we might get a line from Seven to Rafi about Icheb. Or a one-off line saying Jurati's case has been reviewed by Starfleet JAG, or whoever, and not prosecuted. But I am not holding out hope.
Juranti will be the one follow up I'll be annoyed about if there is no follow up. Seven is fine, Rafi was interesting, Voq was muddled but interesting too, especially as it regards the nature of the mind.

But, mileage will vary. I rarely like gore but I didn't find those aspects to be worse than past Trek.

As always, it's up to the viewer.
 
Juranti will be the one follow up I'll be annoyed about if there is no follow up. Seven is fine, Rafi was interesting, Voq was muddled but interesting too, especially as it regards the nature of the mind.

But, mileage will vary. I rarely like gore but I didn't find those aspects to be worse than past Trek.

As always, it's up to the viewer.

yeah, I can't say they are worse than past Trek. But it does seem "different" that they will add these elements that, to me, see qualitatively different than what was included in past Trek without justifying their inclusion via the story. I think it is the definition of "cool for cool's sake". The cursing seems similar - Tilly's "f***ing cool!" was appropriate, some of the other uses, not so much.
 
yeah, I can't say they are worse than past Trek. But it does seem "different" that they will add these elements that, to me, see qualitatively different than what was included in past Trek without justifying their inclusion via the story. I think it is the definition of "cool for cool's sake". The cursing seems similar - Tilly's "f***ing cool!" was appropriate, some of the other uses, not so much.
I never understood the "cool" moniker so I'll just take your word for it, and say it worked for me. Honestly, it worked better than a lot of past Treks, in some far that they actively pushed me away from ever wanting to watch them again. You may be in a similar boat, so I can't fault you so much as I don't feel it is qualitatively different than what has been done in other Treks. Perhaps a bit more graphic, though what isn't nowadays.
 
A Bester (Babylon 5)-eye view from a villain…House of Cards/Caves of Androzani style depiction of various sins…that’s my direction. Post TUC after Section 31 was reeling.

“We thought the loss of Kirk’s son would harden him…but no. We tried to give him a ship and send him as far away as we could. Kruge couldn’t even kill him…a sore spot for Chang and us. Maybe Harriman will play ball.”

“The technology from Kirk’s travels at least works. The Tantalus field was perfect for Praxis.”
 
Looks like with Kurtzman's contract renewal extension, SECTION-31 is still on track to be made.
 
A ViacomCBS press release for the 25 Stories "production entity" today casually mentioned the series:
Kurtzman is responsible for spearheading the production of the entire “Star Trek” canon for CBS Studios, including the award-winning STAR TREK: DISCOVERY; the critically acclaimed STAR TREK: PICARD, featuring Sir Patrick Stewart reprising his iconic role as Jean-Luc Picard; STAR TREK: LOWER DECKS; the upcoming animated STAR TREK: PRODIGY, in partnership with Nickelodeon, that will expand the franchise to young kids; and for 2022, STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS, featuring beloved characters Pike, Spock and Number One. In addition, Secret Hideout is in development on a “Star Trek” project based on “Section 31,” with Michelle Yeoh attached to star and to be run by Craig Sweeney.
https://www.viacomcbspressexpress.com/cbs-studios/releases/view?id=58528
 
Just occurred to me: Is this the first time Sweeny has been referred to as the showrunner? I know he was mentioned as working with Lippoldt and Kim once before. Feel like this is the first time he's been at least hinted as the sole showrunner at least.
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Could be that Carl sent her to the time of the post atomic horror after First Contact. Perhaps around 2079 (the time of Q's tribunal mentioned in "Encounter at Farpoint").

She would very well fit in during these years and because of her redemption arc, it's possible that she's even the founder of what later becomes Section 31, which may have started as a force for good :whistle:;)
 
I thought the point of Carl's intervention was to send her back to a time closer to when she left the Mirrorverse.

She could stay in Prime so long as it was about the same time occurring over in MU, correct?
Sounds about right. You could possibly stretch it up to the point where the Mirror Universe and the Prime Universe could no longer contact each other, maybe. Which would've been 500 years before DSC's new time-frame. So any time during the 27th Century or earlier... but much more likely around the same time she left in the 23rd Century.
 
I hope the Section 31 show never sees the light of day. It's such a stupid concept. And contrary to what most people think, I don't believe that Michelle Yeoh is such a rip-roaringly awesome actor that she'd be able to carry a show that just seems to be an inherently bad idea to produce.
 
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