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My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey

Great review.

I have to agree with a lot of what you said. The amount of plot holes defies logic. Definitely among Moore's worst episodes, which is very rare.

I do, however, find it believable that Nog fell into line because he was made an officer due to the war while still a cadet. He likely saw it possible Captain Ramirez did the same to Watters. Not only that, but because he is still a pretty new ensign, he may not have realized he could take command as soon as he got aboard.

That's the only thing I disagree with, really. Watters and the rest were really unlikeable, and got exactly what they deserved. A shame we lost a Defiant class ship. She deserved better.

I give this a 3, also, mostly because there is a much worse episode next.
 
Yes. Good review of a poor episode full of plot holes, especially Starfleet Command commissioned Ensign Nog should damn well have outranked every battlefield commissioned "officer" on the Defiant. No military organization would operate that way.

Even aside from Nog, it should have been obvious to Waters and the rest of Red Squad that in a war, Starfleet would have better uses for a first line warship like Valiant than running a nursery school. They should have reported to a Starbase for officers and a more appropriate assignment at their earliest chance.

The only thing that keeps this episode from being a waste of film is the interaction between Nog, Jake, and Collins.
 
Not surprisingly, Aron Eisenberg really liked this episode, saying "I think Nog grew tremendously on this show."

One thing I learned: if you live on the moon, the sun only rises once a month.
 
I've been back and forth on Valiant, but I have eventually come to conclude that it was an episode that had to happen in some form or other. Star Trek can be fast and loose with what leadership means, often confusing it with command. Indeed, there seems to be this notion that getting people under you to perform is by insisting on the prerogatives of command. Nothing in that means that people will be motivated to perform. Lorerunner really hit this home for me in his review: the types of things we tend to see Star Trek people in authority do, particularly with the hands-on approach, is actually poor leadership. Watters was a dumb-ass captain, as was his instructor (not seen), but he does the kinds of dumb-ass things that we see other captains do. I love Doomsday Machine, but Spock was right throughout the episode: the job of the Enterprise was to get out from radio interference in order to inform Starfleet. Kirk's actions were as stupid as Decker's, even if he had better means to realize it. Waiting around to transport Kirk wasted time. Like Kirk, Watters took it upon himself to destroy the Jem'hadar battleship. He didn't take into account the needs and abilities of his crew or his obligation of the organization to which he belonged. He tried for the panacea, which is what Kirk and Picard and Janeway and, often, Sisko would do. Jake is a too naive for the episode, and Nog's hero worship seems like a regression. The episode does not need them other then to tell the story of the Valiant. Ron Moore has carried over this theme more effectively in BSG and For All Mankind.

6. Problematic and difficult to watch, but a critique of the franchise that was a long time coming.
 
After the Nova Squadron incident from TNG, you would have thought Starfleert woud have gotten rid of "elite" squadrons so as to prevent a similar re-occurance such as what happened with Red Squad. We also can't overlook the mission was to obtain scans of this new Dominion ship and return that info to Starfleet not try and be heroes would the orginal CO have tried to take out the ship or followed his orders and return the info about a possible weakness?

The argument that somebody else would have to go back and try and destroy the ship is a weak argument, sure we can agree that somebody would have to go back, but Starfleet Engineering might have been able to design a weapon to better try and exploit that potentail weakness and of course there could be more than one ship of that class so it surely would be more advantageous for Starfleet to have the intel. I also find it odd that the Dominion would design a ship with such a flaw they don't really seem the type to design ships with major flaws, for all we know it could have been an illusion, after all we have seen DSN use Duranium shadows to try and fool an enemy into thinking they are better armed than they are.
 
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After the Nova Squadron incident from TNG, you would have thought Starfleert woud have gotten rid of "elite" squadrons so as to prevent a similar re-occurance such as what happened with Red Squad. We also can't overlook the mission was to obtain scans of this new Dominion ship and return that info to Starfleet not try and be heroes would the orginal CO have tried to take out the ship or followed his orders and return the info about a possible weakness?

The argument that somebody else would have to go back and try and destroy the ship is a weak argument, sure we can agree that somebody would have to go back, but Starfleet Engineering might have been able to design a weapon to better try and exploit that potentail weakness and of course there could be more than one ship of that class so it surely would be more advantageous for Starfleet to have the intel. I also find it odd that the Dominion would design a ship with such a flaw they don't really seem the type to design ships with major flaws, for all we know it could have been an illusion, after all we have seen DSN use Duranium shadows to try and fool an enemy into thinking they are better armed than they are.

I think it's likely that "wet pasta" made a mistake due to hasty conclusions and that had they brought the info to Starfleet a team there would have discovered that the torpedo wouldn't work because of some neutralizing gizmo that was also present.
 
Just imagine these idiots creeping at warp 3 in enemy territory for months, instead of saying to themselves, hey we can't repair this ship, let's return to Starfleet where they can do something about it and make good use of this ship. Months of a top-class ship wasted on a bunch of bungling cadets and their conceited "leader".
 
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After the Nova Squadron incident from TNG, you would have thought Starfleert woud have gotten rid of "elite" squadrons so as to prevent a similar re-occurance such as what happened with Red Squad. We also can't overlook the mission was to obtain scans of this new Dominion ship and return that info to Starfleet not try and be heroes would the orginal CO have tried to take out the ship or followed his orders and return the info about a possible weakness?

Red Squad was also involved in the "Homefront/Paradise Lost" incident, so you'd really think Starfleet Academy would have learned something about elitism among the cadets by now. Not to mention that while it's not eugenics, it's not entirely dissimilar...pick the "best" people and give them special treatment, and let's see how that turns out...

It is a little bothersome that nobody else from Valiant survives, and the initial situation is a little contrived, but I can buy into it in this case to get to the story. I'm not at all surprised that this bunch of kids went down the road they did, but I was really hoping there'd be some realization among...any of them...that Watters wasn't necessarily stupid but had gone off his rocker.

You almost wonder whether there were other cadets who opposed what developed aboard that ship, and what might have befallen them, because I could totally see Nechayev Jr. (I really wonder whether the resemblance was intentional) arranging for accidents to befall them.
 
Someone mentioned it, I think, in another thread, but this is sort of DS9's version of Lord Of The Flies. I can see the resemblance.
 
“PROFIT AND LACE”

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Oh dear, Moogie just read the script for this episode.”

Thank goodness that’s over. I’m just glad to get this atrocious episode out the way. I did endeavour to rewatch it with an open mind, in the hope it won’t be QUITE as bad as I recall. But, no. I don’t think it’s even a matter of not ageing well and seeming more offensive in today’s more socially aware and sensitive culture; this episode was abysmal back when it aired and it’s abysmal now.

To be fair, things start off reasonably well. The story advances a loose arc that has spanned much of the series; namely the stirrings of a revolution on Ferenginar with regard to feeeemale rights. It seems only right that since Zek and Ishka became an item that Moogie’s progressive streak would soon work its way into Ferengi policy and legislature. That’s nice to see, and if this episode has anything going for it, it’s the wonderful chemistry between the actors in this wacky extended family. There’s also one genuinely funny moment, set in Ops, where Quark and Rom fret over a communications blackout with Ferenginar. What if the Dominion has invaded Ferenginar, they wonder? “Think of the terrible repercussions to the Alpha Quadrant,” cries Rom. “I cannot think of ANY,” chips in a deadpan Worf. The delivery and the fact Worf is in the background of the scene make it all the more hilarious. Unfortunately, they should have called it a day at that point, because it’s probably the only joke that works in the entire episode.

I really don’t know what was up with the writers at this point, because, in spite of a couple of bona fide classics that easily rank in the show’s top five best episodes, the overall quality of writing has, by this point, become patchy at best, to downright abysmal here. I genuinely loved a lot of the show’s previous Ferengi outings, and gave the previous one, “The Magnificent Ferengi” full marks. This, however, is rotten to the core, and I think it all pretty much comes down to a terrible, terrible script. It doesn’t help that the tone is odd and uneven, apparently because while Ira Behr intended to play it for laughs, director Alexander Siddig and some of the cast wanted to play it straight. Alas, this episode was never going to win either way, because it’s an outright failure both as a drama and a comedy.

I still find it astonishing that an episode which is about women’s emancipation could be so deeply, despicably misogynistic. The opening scene features Quark sexually exploiting a Dabo girl named Allura; something that’s been hinted at before back in the first season, but a trait I’d assumed the character had outgrown. It’s bad enough that this abuse is played for laughs; but then the closing scene reveals that Allura actually seems to be INTO it, implying that if you harass a woman enough she’ll happily give in because they’re all basically gagging for it. I was reminded of the moment in TOS’s “The Enemy Within”, when Spock smirks that Janice Rand secretly enjoyed being sexually assaulted by Kirk’s double. That was bad enough in the 1960’s, but was sadly reflective of the backward views of the time. This episode, however, was made over thirty years later and even in the late 1990’s, that was wholly unacceptable.

I think that’s part of the problem. The crude, retrograde humour feels like a relic of the 1970’s rather than the 90’s; back when the mere thought of a man dressing as a woman was automatically deemed “hilarious” because the very idea was considered demeaning and comical. While drag has been around for considerable time, it’s worth noting that a drag artist is never the brunt of the joke; but rather they command the narrative and wield the jokes like weapons. That never happens here. We just get continual digs about how women are overly emotional, hormonal and generally inept as anything other than sex objects. I know that’s Ferengi culture for you, but it doesn’t even work as a parody of Ferengi women, because the two Ferengi female we’ve met on the show, Ishka and Pel, happened to be perhaps the two most competent and shrewd Ferengi businesspeople ever seen on the show.

Transgender Quark was obviously meant to be a laughter riot, but all I could do was grimace throughout. The writing was woefully unfunny, unsubtle and downright offensive to anyone with half a braincell. Armin Shimmerman does his best and plays it in earnest, but you can see he doesn’t believe in the material, and I also feel sorry for Alexander Siddig, whose career as a director most probably died here. It was telling he never got another shot at directing the show, and the producers went on record levelling some of the blame for this episode on him. It’s admittedly not a great directorial effort overall—the scene where the camera hangs on a curtain for several painfully long seconds and all we hear are the sound effects of Nilva chasing Lumba around off camera is utterly excruciating.

Most of the fault, however, has to be pinned on the scripting. The episode fails as a comedy because it’s woefully unfunny. When you add offensive to the mix, you have a truly loathsome combination. Let’s be clear, the comedic climax is essentially a rape gag. Then, when Brunt shows up, Quark/Lumba only gets out of the predicament by disrobing and revealing his/her genitalia. By that point, I was totally embarrassed to be watching. I also had to wonder why Bashir was so ready to gender-reassign Quark for what was clearly a scam. Although this is the doctor who was readily willing to remove Bareil’s brain and organs, not to mention Kurn’s entire memory and personality. Why the heck was it necessary to change Quark’s entire physiology in the first place rather than just giving him the temporary appearance of female lobes and breasts? Ugh, I can’t believe I’m even giving this shit a modicum of serious thought.

“Profit and Lace” is just utter dreck; unquestionably the lowest low of seven seasons of DS9, and one of the absolute worst episodes of Star Trek ever filmed. It’s horribly written, cringe-worthy, offensive and blatantly unfunny. I remember hating it back when the show first aired and I hate it just as much, if not more, now. It gets one point for advancing the Ferengi arc and Worf’s one-liner, otherwise it would have been into minus figures. Rating: 1
 
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Great review.

Full agreement that this is the worst episode of DS9. And except for the ENTERPRISE finale, I'm hard pressed to find a worst one in the franchise. (Yes, I feel "THRESHOLD" and "SPOCK'S BRAIN" are actually better than this... the former at least has some great character beats for Tom, a nice horror vibe, and a cool scifi premise, while the latter has a cool scifi premise and a great group problem solving scene on the bridge.)

This is going to sound like I'm making this up, but my wife actually doesn't mind the episode and thinks it's a bit better than I feel and the general consensus says. When she told me this, I was shocked. She goes on to say that yes, it's not a great episode by any means but when viewed completely as a comedy, it works better. Believe me, I have tried... many times and rewatches over the years. I still have the same view now as I did when it first aired... it's the worst episode of the series. I think her view is colored a bit because Quark is her favorite character, and more power to her for liking it far more than me. It's not the first time we disagreed on the quality of an episode, and it certainly isn't the last.

The scene in Ops is very funny, as you said, and the chemistry with all the actors is fantastic, as usual. They are really the only reasons I also give it a 1 rank, too.
 
Pretty fair review overall, assuming my memories are correct, but I do...question...one part...

"The opening scene features Quark sexually exploiting a Dabo girl named Allura; something that’s been hinted at before back in the first season, but a trait I’d assumed the character had outgrown. It’s bad enough that this abuse is played for laughs; but then the closing scene reveals that Allura actually seems to be INTO it, implying that if you harass a woman enough she’ll happily give in because they’re all basically gagging for it."

If memory serves, Allura doesn't come off as a "damsel in distress" whom Quark is abusing at the beginning, but rather a willing partner in the scenario...or as you note, at least by the end of the episode.

I just reviewed the transcript to try to refresh my memory, but without the emotional context I could see it going either way.

I know there's disagreement on whether women exploiting their sexuality for profit is a form of female degradation or a form of female empowerment, and I'm not anxious to wade into those waters myself, but if Allura's portrayed as essentially going along with Quark...and I'm not saying she is...then to call this an 'abuse' scene seems, to me, to be overstating the facts of the matter.

Also, I'm not sure we were ever given any reason to believe Quark had outgrown this kind of behavior?
 
Great review, abysmal episode. I wonder if there is even one viewer who did not loathe this episode? That seems inconceivable.
 
Profit and Lace vs. Spock's Brain. Tough choice. Hard to get motivated enough to rewatch both of them, though.
 
Ananta, you wrote on the previous page that TOS was your favorite series, just wondered if you have any similar threads on that forum. These reviews are so engaging! I'd be interested to see what you thought of the early episodes.

aww thank you. I don’t, and don’t have any plans to review anything else beyond DS9. It takes more energy and time than I really have to spare. But who knows, maybe at some point. I do intend to rewatch TOS soon. I find it therapeutic.

If memory serves, Allura doesn't come off as a "damsel in distress" whom Quark is abusing at the beginning, but rather a willing partner in the scenario...or as you note, at least by the end of the episode.

I just reviewed the transcript to try to refresh my memory, but without the emotional context I could see it going either way.

I know there's disagreement on whether women exploiting their sexuality for profit is a form of female degradation or a form of female empowerment, and I'm not anxious to wade into those waters myself, but if Allura's portrayed as essentially going along with Quark...and I'm not saying she is...then to call this an 'abuse' scene seems, to me, to be overstating the facts of the matter.

The problem is, even if she genuinely was turned on by Oo-mox, the context is still Quark abusing the power and authority he has over her, with the fairly implicit suggestion that if she doesn’t grant sexual favours she’s liable to lose her job. Whatever way you spin it, it’s highly unsavoury. Maybe I just falsely assumed because he was gradually internalising Federation values he’d stopped exploiting the Dabo girls. Maybe I was being overly generous.

Great review, abysmal episode. I wonder if there is even one viewer who did not loathe this episode? That seems inconceivable.
inconceivable_princess_bride.gif

I wonder if Zek ever used that word.

I'd rather watch Auberjonois in drag on Frasier
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I loved that episode.

Are you sure you want to write this?

Um, yeah, now you point it out, it’s probably not worded in the best way...
 
“Think of the terrible repercussions to the Alpha Quadrant,” cries Rom. “I cannot think of ANY,” chips in a deadpan Worf. The delivery and the fact Worf is in the background of the scene make it all the more hilarious. Unfortunately, they should have called it a day at that point, because it’s probably the only joke that works in the entire episode.
Best part of the episode. That that for what it is worth.
The problem is, even if she genuinely was turned on by Oo-mox, the context is still Quark abusing the power and authority he has over her, with the fairly implicit suggestion that if she doesn’t grant sexual favours she’s liable to lose her job. Whatever way you spin it, it’s highly unsavoury. Maybe I just falsely assumed because he was gradually internalising Federation values he’d stopped exploiting the Dabo girls. Maybe I was being overly generous.
Indeed. I don't watch this episode for a number of reasons but the way Quark treats his employee is beyond reprehensible. And worse is how she responds at the end, that Oo-Mox sounded fun. Just, no.

This episode doesn't even get a rating from me besides "Unwatchable."
 
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