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the Q aren’t eternal

One does wonder, though... the universe will go dark in 10 trillion years or so. Will the Q still be around then, watching black holes evaporate? Yes, that's a thing. Takes a REALLY long time, though.

If they are immortal (but highly technologically advanced energy based beings) and have control of space, matter and time, they could potentially leave that universe and go to exist in a different one indefinitely (albeit still susceptible to being destroyed or weakened by sufficiently advanced technology or astronomical phenomena)... assuming they usually RESIDE in the Trek universe (they might not).
If Starfleet can access other universes, either by accident, or intent, the Q could at will... so, they could simply move from one universe to the next when its time to go.

As for the premise that the Q had a beginning... well, if we take into account the fact that technology and science evolve exponentially, UFP should have evolved to become technologically assisted proto-Q as someone else suggested by 32nd century (or more realistically, by the late 24th or early 25th century).

The Q could have accelerated their evolution via technology and probably have/use technology of their own.

The UFP in contrast could also do the same thing in a very short span of time... probably shorter than the Q because UFP is an organization comprised of hundreds of species... and if the Q were evolving on their own back in time when they may have been the only species in existence, then they could have taken 150 to 300x longer than what UFP would need.
 
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If you’re referring to the Five Ages, that timeline has been made somewhat out of date by further developments in physics. And although stars like our own will disappear in 100 trillion years, white dwarf stars and neutron stars will persist for another ten dodecillion years or so.

Awww, no more evaporating black holes? That's disappointing.
 
Never thought the Q were eternal.

Its possible they evolved to the point where they could be.
The definition of eternal is as follows: having infinite duration (everlasting), continued without intermission (perpetual)/seemingly endless, valid or existing at all times (timeless).

Biological immortality (which is imminent to occur in real life by 2030 thanks to exponential developments and returns) would allow us to in effect be 'everlasting' (with occasional maintenance - which can realistically be taken cared of by stem cells and nanobots), but we would still be susceptible to dying from other (non-ageing) related causes (although as time goes on, we will improve upon the quality of life and continue to minimize the likelihood of death from non-ageing events.

I suspect the process would be similar for the Q, albeit on a different playing field.

The Q are susceptible to being injured, killed/destroyed, but this takes pretty extraordinary circumstances, and if something doesn't cause those circumstances, then essentially, they can continue to exist in perpetuity.

Just because they had a beginning, it doesn't mean they will necessarily have an end.

Short of a cataclysmic event which could destroy the entire Q continuum (and the Q themselves), I don't see them going away... or at least, 'relocating' elsewhere.
 
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I think it was Bradbury, but I could be wrong, who said he was sitting in some panel of scientists and SF writers when one someone mentioned that the earth would be enveloped by the sun in 4 billion years. A clearly disturbed audience member interrupted "excuse me? did you say 4 million years?!"

The scientist said no, billion, and the audience member was relieved.
 
well, if we take into account the fact that technology and science evolve exponentially, UFP should have evolved to become technologically assisted proto-Q as someone else suggested by 32nd century (or more realistically, by the late 24th or early 25th century).

There's a short story in one of the Strange New Worlds books set in the year 5,000-something in which it's mentioned they've become/joied the Q, so some time in the 3,000+ years between Discovery season 3 and then we do apparently make the grade.
 
There's a short story in one of the Strange New Worlds books set in the year 5,000-something in which it's mentioned they've become/joied the Q, so some time in the 3,000+ years between Discovery season 3 and then we do apparently make the grade.
Could "Traveler" beings like Wesley Crusher, be an example of humanity being on the path to a Q like being?
 
Title and question are different. Eternal is everlasting, always existed means around since the start of the multiverse.
When the Q can manipulate space-time and cosmological constants, I don't think entropy is an issue.
 
You're coming in awfully hot for a new member.

Why don't you take some to review the board rules (pinned at the top of the forum), and just get to know the place and how it works.



That's not helpful.



I agree and I apologize. It's just that, well... I think you understand.


Ron
 
There's a short story in one of the Strange New Worlds books set in the year 5,000-something in which it's mentioned they've become/joied the Q, so some time in the 3,000+ years between Discovery season 3 and then we do apparently make the grade.

Year 5000 minus 3188 (the year which Disco S3 is in) would mean 1812 years after Discovery Season 3 (possibly 2000 years) - unless I'm miscalculating?

UFP should have still been a Type II civilization (all major species of UFP having Dyson Swarms around their native stars) ever since it was created (since it was possible for us to start construction of a Dyson Swarm in real life since 1990), on its way to becoming Type III (making more Dyson Swarms around new member species planets over time)... and fully realized Type III civilization on its way to becoming type IV by the 32nd century (aka, Milky Way stars would have been fully harvested, along with Andromeda, and all the adjoining dwarf galaxies - the overall radius of stars that UFP have harvested using Dyson Swarms or Dyson Spheres would probably have to extend some distance beyond Andromeda when you take into account full scale automation and that Slipstream v2 allows for 10 000 Ly's per minute in late 24th century already).

TW beaming would make this ridiculously easy... just use 2 previous Dyson Swarms to materialize 1 new Swarm around a distant star immediately using the star's power (which would be absolutely massive).

Given how Trek writers seem utterly oblivious to Type II, III and IV civilization designations and their capabilities (especially when merged with the technology UFP has), having UFP reach Q level status by the year 5000 seems... ok I guess... but technically if they did go with exponential advancements route and full scale automation, then UFP would achieve Q level status in less than 5000 years.

Which book was that in again?
 
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Yes, the Q were once mortal. The other Q aka Quinn in 'Death Wish' says so:
Quinn said:
As the Q have evolved, we've sacrificed many things along the way. Not just manners, but mortality, and a sense of purpose, and a desire for change, and a capacity to grow.
(As transcribed at chakotey.net)

Kor
 
Year 5000 minus 3188 (the year which Disco S3 is in) would mean 1812 years after Discovery Season 3 (possibly 2000 years) - unless I'm miscalculating?

UFP should have still been a Type II civilization (all major species of UFP having Dyson Swarms around their native stars) ever since it was created (since it was possible for us to start construction of a Dyson Swarm in real life since 1990), on its way to becoming Type III (making more Dyson Swarms around new member species planets over time)... and fully realized Type III civilization on its way to becoming type IV by the 32nd century (aka, Milky Way stars would have been fully harvested, along with Andromeda, and all the adjoining dwarf galaxies - the overall radius of stars that UFP have harvested using Dyson Swarms or Dyson Spheres would probably have to extend some distance beyond Andromeda when you take into account full scale automation and that Slipstream v2 allows for 10 000 Ly's per minute in late 24th century already).

TW beaming would make this ridiculously easy... just use 2 previous Dyson Swarms to materialize 1 new Swarm around a distant star immediately using the star's power (which would be absolutely massive).

Given how Trek writers seem utterly oblivious to Type II, III and IV civilization designations and their capabilities (especially when merged with the technology UFP has), having UFP reach Q level status by the year 5000 seems... ok I guess.

Which book was that in again?

I realize you're a big proponent of Kardashev stuff, but I am of the belief that there are forces (Q or perhaps less than Q) that are actively keeping down the technology level of the Galactic Culture(s) at large. It could just be pseudo-natural, a result of resistance to AI, as AI tends to become evil fairly often (as seen multiple times in TOS and very, very recently in Discovery), with groups opposed to technological advancement in certain fields kneecapping advancement in others.

There's also the fact that humans, per Lower Decks but implied in other shows, have the ability already to ascend to a higher plane of existence by pure mental discipline I guess. Admittedly, I presume the individual in Lower Decks was actually preyed upon by a being on these higher planes, but the concept still seems readily available, especially if we take TNG's Transfigurations (and a similar-level culture with ascending beings) into account. This implies that the Human-Zalkonian-Galactic culture of the late 24th century is almost near its end, perhaps a few centuries shy of achieving some sort of "evolution" beyond physical existence (but done via some sort of mental clarity and not further technological progress).

We don't see many more, super-advanced cultures than Humanity, who are pretty much the infants of the Galaxy, but this is par for the course. Once they fully enter the Galactic Stage (and I'm talking the Alpha-Beta Quadrant corridor where 9 out of 10 series takes place) all technology is evenly exchanged and about equal. Like the "stone age" Native Americans who quickly adapted to guns and horses when the time came (the ones who survived. Oy). The ones we see, primarily in TOS mind you, are remnants. Survivors of long lost civilizations following some sort of catastrophe or event. I've hypothesized in the Picard forum that this was AI taking down most of these civ's that were too large for their liking, but this could be the non-corporeal beings at large, or just one all-powerful one, or maybe there's no difference. Perhaps the Q are an ancient Q(uery) system written by some bored programmer in the long, long ago that moved on from there. At what point does "artificial" intelligence and "natural" intelligence become meaningless distinctions? Does the Q(uery system) and the Organi(c processing simul)ans laugh at the civil right bickering of these funny little microbrains?

But to circle back to the ascendancy of humanity in Lower Decks and Transfigurations... what is going on here? Is there some way to interact with the realms of the non-corporeals inherent in humanoid biology? Or are the non-corporeals/AIs helping them achieve this, perhaps underhandedly? Did that Koala eat that guy? (Yes) We don't have all the answers, but that's kinda the point.

Humanity (or, rather, Galactic Society) not advancing much from the 2160s to the 3180s seems about right on the assumption that technology and culture has hit an artificial plateau, probably centuries or millennia beforehand, and these incremental advancements occasionally seen in other episodes are not as accurate or galactic rearranging as they should be. Once someone, somewhere in the galaxy or a nearby one (or anywhere, really), discovers, creates, or advances just one teensy bit beyond a specific threshold, things are due to cascade in the Federation (or whoever)'s favor and Q-dom will be a short distance away. Year 5000, sure. 4000, no worries there. 3200... maybe?

I haven't addressed the other Elephant in the room: Time travel. Humanity, er... uh..., Galactic Society has mastered the art of temporal manipulation, and the Star Trek franchise seems to show us this progression firsthand. The Vulcans didn't think such a thing could be done in the 2150s, but they surely can't say that in the 2380s, where it was suddenly becoming a very common occurrence on even run-of-the-mill starships. The escalation of time travel might be that Singularity push that cascades everyone into Q form, but this is likely stopped and controlled by the upstreamers... the beings (for good or worse) controlling and manipulating events from the TCW (2700 to 3100, at least), which we see actively being done in Enterprise, and similar events in "Captain's Holiday" and "A Matter of Time". The events of Discovery are now beyond that (supposedly), beyond the point where we can say that the Galactic Society may have been kneecapping itself purely to kneecap its enemies. What will happen now? Will Q come and accept them with open arms in their heavenly kingdom? Or will the Koalas get there first?
 
Perhaps when your species has existed for billions you might consider yourselves to have always have been.
 
True. Especially when humans (homo sapien, AKA Cro-magnon man) have only really existed for about 50,000.
 
One does wonder, though... the universe will go dark in 10 trillion years or so. Will the Q still be around then, watching black holes evaporate? Yes, that's a thing. Takes a REALLY long time, though.

If the Q don't age like we do, then perhaps the Continuum existed prior to the Big Bang where energy and time flowed differently.
 
Maybe the Q aren't even from our universe and they only discovered it 9 billion years after the big bang. That would explain the Q being eternal and only existing in our universe for that long.
This is just a wild theory and I'm probably missing some points here :D
 
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