Why the hate for Disco?

[The Wormhole]

Anyone remember how many times Kirk cried in Into Darkness?

When he lost his command
When he was reinstated as Pike's first officer
When Pike died
When he died

And all that in the space of 2 hours.

STID was Abrams Filth. We expect crying and emotions because that's what that filthy hedonist is all about.. Disco would be better off if it went back to the soulless void of emotions of the Berman era.

I leave it open to interpretation if this post is a joke or serious.

 

[GMDreia]

Ok, so... this is largely a generationally based complaint. It seems to be older people who agree with me and younger people who disagree.

Just to preface where I'm coming from, I'm an old queer (47), I was in LGBT culture in the Bay Area in the 90s, and I remember how big a deal the Jadzia Dax kiss was.

I'm really not happy with how Disco - which is supposedly the most LGBT-friendly Trek - handles LGBT issues. It's a common complaint though that I have with how a *lot* of media, in the last few years, has handled LGBT issues: the LGBT characters who hang out in a small clique together like it's the cool kids' lunch table, and don't interact with the rest of anyone else! This is actually weirdly alienating. I have had this problem with the way so much media seems to handle LGBT characters recently. Could we please at least have one of the LGBT characters leave the gayborhood and make some other friends, too? One of the reasons I love Trek is because I want to see what the world looks like when various bigotries and phobias have been SOLVED and humanity has gotten PAST that stuff. It's not the 1950s let alone the 1980s. LGBT people should be able to interact with the rest of the crew and to me, it's a really bad look to set them apart as their own thing and cluster them all together. Do they have to all (or mostly) hang out in/work in the same department? That's weird.

Also, the "instant family" thing with Culber, Stamets, and Adira - I realize this is very sweet and aspirational but, could they please have built that up for a while? Like, over the course of a season or something?

I feel like I want to be *shown* that the world Trek describes, is a different world in which we don't have the problems of today.

I get that a lot of people will disagree with me, but... as an LGBT person, what I want from a show is to watch it and feel more normal. Like I could get along just fine in that world and it wouldn't be a big deal! I don't feel "normal" when I watch LGBT identities framed the way Discovery frames them, I feel... bizarrely alienated.

Like... the LGBT characters are all great characters, but... could the writers have please mixed this up a bit and not made all the LGBT characters into one clique??

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Ok, so... this is largely a generationally based complaint. It seems to be older people who agree with me and younger people who disagree.

Just to preface where I'm coming from, I'm an old queer (47), I was in LGBT culture in the Bay Area in the 90s, and I remember how big a deal the Jadzia Dax kiss was.

I'm really not happy with how Disco - which is supposedly the most LGBT-friendly Trek - handles LGBT issues. It's a common complaint though that I have with how a *lot* of media, in the last few years, has handled LGBT issues: the LGBT characters who hang out in a small clique together like it's the cool kids' lunch table, and don't interact with the rest of anyone else! This is actually weirdly alienating. I have had this problem with the way so much media seems to handle LGBT characters recently. Could we please at least have one of the LGBT characters leave the gayborhood and make some other friends, too? One of the reasons I love Trek is because I want to see what the world looks like when various bigotries and phobias have been SOLVED and humanity has gotten PAST that stuff. It's not the 1950s let alone the 1980s. LGBT people should be able to interact with the rest of the crew and to me, it's a really bad look to set them apart as their own thing and cluster them all together. Do they have to all (or mostly) hang out in/work in the same department? That's weird.

Also, the "instant family" thing with Culber, Stamets, and Adira - I realize this is very sweet and aspirational but, could they please have built that up for a while? Like, over the course of a season or something?

I feel like I want to be *shown* that the world Trek describes, is a different world in which we don't have the problems of today.

I get that a lot of people will disagree with me, but... as an LGBT person, what I want from a show is to watch it and feel more normal. Like I could get along just fine in that world and it wouldn't be a big deal! I don't feel "normal" when I watch LGBT identities framed the way Discovery frames them, I feel... bizarrely alienated.

Like... the LGBT characters are all great characters, but... could the writers have please mixed this up a bit and not made all the LGBT characters into one clique??

What are you talking about? Firstly, Stamets and Culber have been in a long term relationship that predates being assigned to Discovery. Secondly, Stamets, Adira and Culber interact with other members of the crew all the time. They have dinner with other members of the crew, talk about work with other members of the crew, hell Stamets spends more time with Tilly than he does with Culber. Culber spent more time in season 3 interacting with Burnham, Georgiou, Detmer and Dr. Pollard than he did with either Stamets or Adira.

As an Gay man myself, I have zero issue with how the LGBT characters are being portrayed. I feel the exact opposite of you. We're seeing LGBT characters as scientists, leaders and problem solvers who play an integral role in society for once. I can't count the amount of times I have seen in media LGBT characters, Gay men in particular, portrayed as self-destructive and pitiful or treated as accessories for heterosexual women. Discovery is finally doing what 90's trek didn't have the guts to do. Hell it's doing what a lot of media both gay and straight haven't had the guts to do.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm not talking about the end of Project Daedalus, I'm talking about the end of Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2. Nhan ends up lying on the floor unresponsive after falling in combat with Leland. The season ends with it being entirely unclear if she survived the encounter.

Oh my bad I think they left that open ended in case the cast knocked down were to come back or not and renew their contracts.

 

[F. King Daniel]

At no point watching Disco have I seen any disconnect between the LGBT and cis characters. But then it's not something I've looked for? In early episodes nobody got along, but now they're all a weird extended family.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I have never felt that the Berman era had a "soulless void of emotions". There were stories filled with emotions, for example, "The Visitor" from DS9 or "The Inner Light" from TNG.

I am re-watching "Year of Hell, Part II" from VOY. The characters treat the starship ''Voyager'' as a member of the family and speak about how she has been there for the crew. This is something else I feel missing from modern Trek - the ships are not treated as characters. I don't feel the same level of kinship between crew and ship.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I have never felt that the Berman era had a "soulless void of emotions". There were stories filled with emotions, for example, "The Visitor" from DS9 or "The Inner Light" from TNG.

I am re-watching "Year of Hell, Part II" from VOY. The characters treat the starship ''Voyager'' as a member of the family and speak about how she has been there for the crew. This is something else I feel missing from modern Trek - the ships are not treated as characters. I don't feel the same level of kinship between crew and ship.

Janeway says that and Tuvok objects to it. Janeway is an obsessive personality, which has often resulted in her making questionable decisions.

 

[Antant123]

Why the hate for Disco? Rose tinted spectacles and an arrogant belief that only people who have been watching it for X amount of years have a legitimate opinion on what constitutes Star Trek.

Self appointed gate keepers who conveniently forget that Star Trek has been and always will be riddled with inconsistencies and variable aesthetics, as befits changing times, changing tastes and changing technologies.

The people who hated the new Klingons and thus declared Discovery `Not real` are the heirs in spirit to the people who hated the redesigned Klingons when they made their appearance in the TOS movies.

Look for them now. This is trek, like it or not. Its as valid as everything else.

And at the end of the day, its a TV show. No one is forcing you to watch-all art is subjective. Your opinion can differ and you are free not to like it, but you are not free to therefore tell others they cannot like it, or to declare it to have no validity or relationship with previous shows., when it self evidently does.

Besides, CBS is obviously getting the viewers it needs or it wouldnt be pumping money into the new generation of Trek, and that actually might be what annoys the self appointed gatekeepers most, that no one is doing what they want and letting the new generation of shows wither on the vine..

 

[fireproof78]

Why the hate for Disco? Rose tinted spectacles and an arrogant belief that only people who have been watching it for X amount of years have a legitimate opinion on what constitutes Star Trek.

Self appointed gate keepers who conveniently forget that Star Trek has been and always will be riddled with inconsistencies an variable aesthetics, as befits changing times, changing tastes and changing technologies.

The people who hated the new Klingons and thus declared Discovery `Not real` are the heirs in spirit to the people who hated the redesigned Klingons when they made their appearance in the TOS movies.

Look for them now. This is trek, like it or not. Its as valid as everything else.

And at the end of the day, its a TV show. No one is forcing you to watch-all art is subjective. Your opinion can differ and you are free not to like it, but you are not free to therefore tell others they cannot like it, or to declare it to have no validity or relationship with previous shows., when it self evidently does.

Besides, CBS is obviously getting the viewers it needs or it wouldnt be pumping money into the new generation of Trek, and that actually might be what annoys the self appointed gatekeepers most, that no one is doing what they want and letting the new generation of shows wither on the vine..

I'm continually amazed at the desire to stop CBS from producing a product people are getting enjoyment out of.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I'm continually amazed at the desire to stop CBS from producing a product people are getting enjoyment out of.

Very few people actually want the show to stop even among the complainers.

 

[Lord Garth]

Very few people actually want the show to stop even among the complainers.

Doesn't make sense. When I didn't like Star Trek's output, I wanted it to stop and come back under different hands. And I actually had stopped watching it in 1999. So there were six years' worth of new episodes (the last two seasons of VOY and all four seasons of ENT), that I just didn't watch (until much, much, much later). I could do something these people can't.

Best I can figure is they like to complain and don't want the source of their complaining to go away, or they won't know what to do with themselves. "Focus on something they actually like?" No. Come on. Let's be real here.

EDITED TO ADD: For the first five seasons of VOY, I waffled back-and-forth. I was always on the fence (except for the fourth season, which I liked a lot). But once I decided I'd seen enough, that was it. But these people who don't like DSC at all and are still watching, I think they're (wrongly, IMO) in for the ride until the bitter end. It's just something I don't get and never will.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Doesn't make sense. When I didn't like Star Trek's output, I wanted it to stop and come back under different hands. And I actually had stopped watching it in 1999. So there were six years' worth of new episodes (the last two seasons of VOY and all four seasons of ENT), that I just didn't watch (until much, much, much later). I could do something these people can't.

Best I can figure is they like to complain and don't want the source of their complaining to go away, or they won't know what to do with themselves. "Focus on something they actually like?" No. Come on. Let's be real here.

EDITED TO ADD: For the first five seasons of VOY, I waffled back-and-forth. I was always on the fence (except for the fourth season, which I liked a lot). But once I decided I'd seen enough, that was it. But these people who don't like DSC at all and are still watching, I think they're (wrongly, IMO) in for the ride until the bitter end. It's just something I don't get and never will.

well, there are things we love to hate.

 

[fireproof78]

Very few people actually want the show to stop even among the complainers.

The complainers don't want it to stop because it would leave nothing to complain about and no more attention.

well, there are things we love to hate.

Sounds like a waste of energy.

 

[Antant123]

Very few people actually want the show to stop even among the complainers.

Obviously. They would have nothing to complain about then. They would have to latch onto and spoil a different show people like instead.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Are Swedish Borg like Swiss Cheese with the holes?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Are Swedish Borg like Swiss Cheese with the holes?

No they make really good meatballs and are experts in flat packed furniture

 

[gazomg]

Are Swedish Borg like Swiss Cheese with the holes?

https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME8HF3

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

No they make really good meatballs and are experts in flat packed furniture

Oh cool I like flat pack furniture

 

[Kahloke]

Pacing. There are no quiet moments, no moments to build the characters beyond caricatures, no moments to just be. The only quiet moments we get are when Michael is struggling, wrestling with something profound. At one point, and I can’t recall where, someone on the production team referred to the show’s pacing as being like “a bullet”. That’s a structural issue, not a character issue. Slow the show down. Give the characters space to breathe, to be human. To have hobbies. To (ha) Discover themselves, and each other.

I think the high concepts of Discovery, namely ‘discovery of self’, working through layers of ‘imposed identity’ vs ‘self-forged-identity’, examining the different choices we would’ve made because of differences in nurture (mirror universe, cough), had and HAVE so much fantastic potential. Sonequa Martin-Green is a fantastic actor, and the character of Michael Burnham was a good idea.

But we never got to savour those ideas. They passed us by in a barrage of phaser fire.

 

[fireproof78]

I think pacing is the biggest struggles with modern day productions. There is a lot of movements that I would love to breathe a bit more. I would love for the show to slow down. But, I fundamentally love the characters and so can manage with the pacing.