You're welcome to that interpretation but it is not accurate. Picard being the original is consistent with past Trek.
But, no doubt it is easier to make peace with him being a copy that actually enduring on. Some how. Fan logic is weird.
Spoilers Star Trek Picard Season 2 Hopes and Predictions
- Thread starter Lorcan Kelly
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But, no doubt it is easier to make peace with him being a copy that actually enduring on. Some how. Fan logic is weird.
Just like Spock, who did a lot of stuff after he died
Spock wasn't the real Spock. It's all fake Spock after that, which is why Spock behaves so out of character in TUC, Unification and ST 09.Just like Spock, who did a lot of stuff after he died
Joking...kind of.
I've said it before at least once: If he thinks he's Picard and he's played by Patrick Stewart, that's good enough for me.
But where's the overthinking?
It was a transfer not a copy.
it's Theseus' ship all over again
All the previous cases I can think of where a character's mind was transferred somewhere (and sometimes back again) and no-one batted an eyelid (some have been mentioned already):
Picard in Lonely Among Us (became pure energy, and then back again)
Ira Graves in The Schizoid Man (transferred his mind to Data, it was implied it was a transfer not a copy)
Barclay in The Nth Degree (uploaded his brain to the main computer, then back again)
Tuvok and Neelix in Tuvix (they were essentially recreated in this episode, are they copies from this point on?)
Spock in Spock's Brain.... okay maybe a few eyelids were batted that time.
Spock in TWOK/TSFS
The Spock katra thing, that was explicitly a copy of his mind, as he continued to live/function after the meld with McCoy. Fair enough it was still his original body, but it was a copy of his memories/mind that got transferred back into it. Nobody ever seems bothered by that?
Picard in Lonely Among Us (became pure energy, and then back again)
Ira Graves in The Schizoid Man (transferred his mind to Data, it was implied it was a transfer not a copy)
Barclay in The Nth Degree (uploaded his brain to the main computer, then back again)
Tuvok and Neelix in Tuvix (they were essentially recreated in this episode, are they copies from this point on?)
Spock in Spock's Brain.... okay maybe a few eyelids were batted that time.
Spock in TWOK/TSFS
The Spock katra thing, that was explicitly a copy of his mind, as he continued to live/function after the meld with McCoy. Fair enough it was still his original body, but it was a copy of his memories/mind that got transferred back into it. Nobody ever seems bothered by that?
Turnabout Intruder
What Are Little Girls Made Of? (though this one showed what everyone is arguing against)
etc...
It's never explicitly stated that Korby doesn't have continuity with his old "meat self" - only that he's irrevocably changed due to to the process.
An interesting example is Return to Tomorrow. Once again, it involves "mind transference" - with Sargon and the other two surviving aliens are transferred to humanoids, while Kirk/Spock/Munhall are stuck in glowing spheres. The interesting part of this is the original script had Sargon and his wife floating as disembodied entities for all eternity, but Roddenberry, as a staunch atheist, was opposed to consciousness being independent of matter...though he had no issue with porting it around virtually anywhere.
There's also Chakotay being able to fly around VOY in Cathexis (I think) and able to interact with computers and Kes could sense his presence. The idea of mind transfer is not new to Star Trek, and Picard utilizing it does nothing to change that.
look, it's pretty obvious. mind transfer is only acceptable as long as it happens in OLDTrek, in NEWTrek it is absolutely paramount that this concept is an obscene and sacriligious anathema of all we hold dear
Well, that's been the mainstay argument against all things new Trek. Hoorah for consistency!
I had a memory of a POV shot of someone floating down a corridor but couldn’t place it, Cathexis was it! Chakotay was literally brain dead as well.
That’s reminded me that Heroes and Demons had Kim, Tuvok and Chakotay all converted into energy and back again.
Not according to the dialogue ....
That's not true at all. Kirk as a female wasnt all Kirk in turnabout intruder. If the Kirk body had died what we know as Kirk would gone.
There is ZERO organic matter of Picard left. ZERO. The only thing that exists according to dialogue is an scanned and mapped copy of his mind. That's it.
As someone said...THESEUS' SHIP.
It is no longer the Picard that we know. In all the other instances everyone was restored to their original selves. Everyone.
If that's true then good. But, I doubt that's entirely accurate.
Yes, that someone was me, so please don't quote myself against me
In a single year, 98% of the atoms that comprise your body are replaced. IRL our consciousness is clearly not tied to the "stuff" we are made out of - even if it is rooted in the physical world. You could sub out all of the atoms you are made of for different atoms, and (since all atoms are identical of a given element/ion) it would be you with no perceptual gap. Hell, given humans can lose limbs (or even parts of their brains) and seem to report being the same person, a perfect swap likely isn't even needed - just one which is "good enough."
Turning to the Trekverse, the only thing that really matters is if the story treats Picard as the same person. All indications are he is. Everyone surrounding him takes for granted he's Jean Luc, and he has a first-person experience right up until the moment of his (old body's) death.
The dialogue does not say he's a copy. Data says his mind was scanned, mapped and transferred.
And even if he was a copy, he is still Picard in every way that matters. He is still the Picard we know, just with a new body.
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