The Original Plan for Kes

[Bornin1980something]

A 9-year lifespan could have worked. The one-child limit... did not. If there were 1000 Ocampa, best case scenario is that they would go extinct in under 50 years. A million would be gone in 100, and Earth's current human population would be gone in 160.

Many countries today have a similar issue: with their one- and two-child families, they're slowly shrinking themselves out of existence.

Might it have been a subtle reference to the One-Child Policy? Interesting, Jennifer Lien is a small part Chinese on her mother's side.

 

[Oddish]

The one-child policy, draconian as it was, made sense. There are two ways to limit population: do it yourself, or let Mother Nature do the job for you. And those skeletal children in Africa are how Mother Nature does it. Personally, I prefer a less cruel method.

 

[Lynx]

Yes you watch Star Trek, but do you Star Trek? Because syrupy,growing old melodramatic crap(IN SPAAAACE!!!) is about as Star Trek as it gets.

For me, Star Trek is about exploring space and adventure, not syrupy, tear-wrenching drama with people dying in long, out drawn sequences. There are certain soap operas for such entertainment.

Maybe it has something to do with my childhood when relatives and friends of the family died each and every year and some experiences as a grown-up too by losing beloved persons in my life. But I can't stand such melodrama on TV because watching Star Trek and similar TV adventures is for me a relief and relax from the daily, not always so funny life here in the Gray Universe. Honestly, I thought the death of Tasha yar and the aftermath of that was among the worst I've ever watched on Star Trek.The same for "Sarek". While "Skin Of Evil" have its exciting points and a fascinating character in "The Oil Man" as I often call Armus, "Sarek" was downright dreadful and an episode I skip every time I have one of my TNG rewatches.

I thought it was a wonderful idea and if done well, which it was never explored or made interesting, could show life is a blessing and we, however age we are, should live life to our fullest. Age is just a number and we can make it however we want it to be but it doesn't have to be dreadful.

I have to disagree here. It was a bad idea from the start which never really worked. I totally agree that life is a blessing and that we should live our life to the fullest. But say it to someone who just have lost his wife for example.
As for TV series we don't have to have the misery of long death sequences shoved in our faces all the time.

As for age, it's just a number they put on us each time Earth completes a lap around the sun, nothing more. As for time:

"Time is just a cumular limit,
Which with one glimpse can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can over..............."

"Glimpses"
The Yardbirds

 

[Lynx]

Might it have been a subtle reference to the One-Child Policy? Interesting, Jennifer Lien is a small part Chinese on her mother's side.

Jennifer is actually of Norwegian heritage. "Lien" is a rather common family name in Norway. I read somewhere that Jennifer has a brother, Tore Lien. Tore is also a Norwegian name.

 

[at Quark's]

That was indeed Jeri Taylor's idea per her early notes: "We first meet her as a young woman; she will age every half season and progress into old age." Quoted on Memory Alpha here: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kes

Kor

And it would have been very interesting to see that unfold. We got, I think, a blueprint for how that could have happened in "Before and After".

Except for the 'gradually aging' part. In B&A, Kes suddenly jumped from being 'old' (although with gradually more vigor in subsequent jumps) to looking 'normal' only a half a year or so before she would eventually die. So that would mean she essentially didn't visibly age for 8 or so years, and then suddenly started aging at an accelerated pace in the last half year of her life.

 

[Oddish]

Except for the 'gradually aging' part. In B&A, Kes suddenly jumped from being 'old' (although with gradually more vigor in subsequent jumps) to looking 'normal' only a half a year or so before she would eventually die. So that would mean she essentially didn't visibly age for 8 or so years, and then suddenly started aging at an accelerated pace in the last half year of her life.

There's no reason why she had to visibly age at all. Maybe Ocampa could age rapidly internally, but not externally, or at least not as fast. They could leave the proverbial "good-looking corpse".

 

[at Quark's]

There's no reason why she had to visibly age at all. Maybe Ocampa could age rapidly internally, but not externally, or at least not as fast. They could leave the proverbial "good-looking corpse".

I'm not saying I think she should have been aging over the years - I have no opinion on the matter. I'm just noting that if this really was one of their early ideas, as Kor says, they must must have abandoned that completely, and didn't bother with it even in this episode, where the effect would have been especially detectable.

 

[Oddish]

I'm not saying I think she should have been aging over the years - I have no opinion on the matter. I'm just noting that if this really was one of their early ideas, as Kor says, they must must have abandoned that completely, and didn't bother with it even in this episode, where the effect would have been especially detectable.

Fair enough... I was just having a random thought about how Ocampa aging could be managed. And, it just popped into my head that a creature's lifespan is determined by metabolic function, not how gray its hair is or how many wrinkles appear.

 

[Nerys Myk]

For me, Star Trek is about exploring space and adventure, not syrupy, tear-wrenching drama with people dying in long, out drawn sequences. There are certain soap operas for such entertainment.

Treks rarely been about exploring space, that's just where the adventure and syrupy, tear-wrenching drama takes place.

 

[Oddish]

Here's a question... let's assume that the decision was made to keep Kes (Seven never showed up, or Harry got killed off instead, or Voyager just went with 10 leads). How should her story have ended? Some possibilities...

1. She passes into energy, like in "The Gift", but later.
2. She dies a heroic death, saving Voyager with her vastly developed powers.
3. She dies of old age sometime before Voyager reaches Earth.
4. She lives just long enough to see Earth, know that her family is home, then passes away peacefully.
5. Her clock still has a year or so to run, and she resolves that she will see as much of Earth as possible before in that time.
6. Through Suspira, Q, or the Doctor's intervention, she gains a vastly extended lifespan.

 

[Lynx]

Here's a question... let's assume that the decision was made to keep Kes (Seven never showed up, or Harry got killed off instead, or Voyager just went with 10 leads). How should her story have ended? Some possibilities...

1. She passes into energy, like in "The Gift", but later.
2. She dies a heroic death, saving Voyager with her vastly developed powers.
3. She dies of old age sometime before Voyager reaches Earth.
4. She lives just long enough to see Earth, know that her family is home, then passes away peacefully.
5. Her clock still has a year or so to run, and she resolves that she will see as much of Earth as possible before in that time.
6. Through Suspira, Q, or the Doctor's intervention, she gains a vastly extended lifespan.

Number 6 of course!

Kes deserves a long, happy life with lot of adventures and exploring space!

 

[Oddish]

I think 4, 5, and 6 could all work well. 4 would rank right up there with Tuvok's goodbye in "Year of Hell" and Jake's death in "The Visitor" for turning on the waterworks.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Here's a question... let's assume that the decision was made to keep Kes (Seven never showed up, or Harry got killed off instead, or Voyager just went with 10 leads). How should her story have ended? Some possibilities...

1. She passes into energy, like in "The Gift", but later.
2. She dies a heroic death, saving Voyager with her vastly developed powers.
3. She dies of old age sometime before Voyager reaches Earth.
4. She lives just long enough to see Earth, know that her family is home, then passes away peacefully.
5. Her clock still has a year or so to run, and she resolves that she will see as much of Earth as possible before in that time.
6. Through Suspira, Q, or the Doctor's intervention, she gains a vastly extended lifespan.

I wouldn't have minded Kes being an integral part of the crew returning home. She discovers something in herself, which was happening the wrong way on the series, but could've been more. What makes the crew who they are and how Kes learned and discovers something in herself which leads her to the final equation in Voyager getting back. What if Kes actually made it to Earth before Voyager? This would be a mystery within the series and we could still have Lien around for guest appearances.... YAWN along with Barclay and Troi, but she would still be around and still have 7.

6. is as close of a choice but I would have loved to see something more, something special other than becoming some old thing trying to destroy Voyager in Fury. Kes should've been something more than Suspira.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Except for the 'gradually aging' part. In B&A, Kes suddenly jumped from being 'old' (although with gradually more vigor in subsequent jumps) to looking 'normal' only a half a year or so before she would eventually die. So that would mean she essentially didn't visibly age for 8 or so years, and then suddenly started aging at an accelerated pace in the last half year of her life.

That's right. When her grandson Andrew is born, she looks the same age as she did in the normal timeline although she would have been about 8 and1/2 by then. Then by her 9th birthday party, she looks old enough to be her husband's mother, but still fairly hale and hearty.

 

[Lynx]

I think 4, 5, and 6 could all work well. 4 would rank right up there with Tuvok's goodbye in "Year of Hell" and Jake's death in "The Visitor" for turning on the waterworks.

I hate "waterworks"!

Such scenes either bore me to death or makes me wanna throw heavy things, if it's a character I like.

As I wrote before, Kes deserves a long, happy life with lot of adventures and exploring space!

 

[rocketscientist]

For me, Star Trek is about exploring space and adventure, not syrupy, tear-wrenching drama with people dying in long, out drawn sequences. There are certain soap operas for such entertainment.

Maybe it has something to do with my childhood when relatives and friends of the family died each and every year and some experiences as a grown-up too by losing beloved persons in my life. But I can't stand such melodrama on TV because watching Star Trek and similar TV adventures is for me a relief and relax from the daily, not always so funny life here in the Gray Universe. Honestly, I thought the death of Tasha yar and the aftermath of that was among the worst I've ever watched on Star Trek.The same for "Sarek". While "Skin Of Evil" have its exciting points and a fascinating character in "The Oil Man" as I often call Armus, "Sarek" was downright dreadful and an episode I skip every time I have one of my TNG rewatches.




I have to disagree here. It was a bad idea from the start which never really worked. I totally agree that life is a blessing and that we should live our life to the fullest. But say it to someone who just have lost his wife for example.
As for TV series we don't have to have the misery of long death sequences shoved in our faces all the time.

As for age, it's just a number they put on us each time Earth completes a lap around the sun, nothing more. As for time:

"Time is just a cumular limit,
Which with one glimpse can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can overcome,
Can over..............."

"Glimpses"
The Yardbirds

I hear you, Lynx. ST's ideally escapism and thoughtful scifi.

That said, the theme of aging and loss, and the episode Sarek is a good example as well as TWOK, GEN, etc, have definitely been explored by the francise. Why? Because it's just, unfortunately, part of the human condition.

Sounds like you've had a rough time. My condolences for your losses. My words are probably inadequate, but I now how much it hurts.

 

[Oddish]

As I wrote before, Kes deserves a long, happy life with lot of adventures and exploring space!

Fair enough.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That was indeed Jeri Taylor's idea per her early notes: "We first meet her as a young woman; she will age every half season and progress into old age." Quoted on Memory Alpha here: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kes

IIRC, Kes's original lifespan was publicised before the premiere as being seven years. Since TNG ran for seven years, and DS9 was expected to do so as well, it seemed as if Kes would die (or transcend) in the finale.

But suddenly she had a nine-year lifespan. What I found the weirdest bit was that - all all the people on the ship - the person selected to train as a nurse was... the one who could complete only about seven years of the 70-year journey.

 

[Oddish]

They had Tom Paris as well. And, Kes was a quick study, which they would need since she was the EMH's only immediate backup.

 

[Lynx]

I hear you, Lynx. ST's ideally escapism and thoughtful scifi.

That said, the theme of aging and loss, and the episode Sarek is a good example as well as TWOK, GEN, etc, have definitely been explored by the francise. Why? Because it's just, unfortunately, part of the human condition.

Sounds like you've had a rough time. My condolences for your losses. My words are probably inadequate, but I now how much it hurts.

Thanks for your kind words and your compassion.