Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
Note it was Sam getting the suspicion, not Bucky. The scene was extremely realistic, especially the change in tune once they realize who they're harassing. These cops have unconscious bias and there's probably institutional racism, they might not think of themselves as being racist.
The bank one perhaps a little less as there wasn't any change in outcome once the manager knew who he was dealing with, unless it was showing how little control bank managers actually have when the "computer says no". Unlike cops and bank managers, computers aren't impressed by avengers - only by cold logical factors, none of which will be skin color (and many of which will be proxies for skin color - including address, schools, name, background, etc - people don't write code which says "if (person is black) then {deny loan}". They don't even write "if (person went to Xavier) then {deny loan}", they just gather facts and implement decisions based on past loans which happen to discriminate based on skin color - "lookup school rejections, see Xavier has a higher chance of rejection than average, knock the score down". ML has "unconscious" bias too)
Educate yourself. This shit goes on all the time whether you choose to pay attention to it or not. And believe it or not, the videos I chose are just a few of the ones that end up with "better" outcomes where no one is shot, killed, beaten, falsely imprisoned, etc. I could provide hundreds more examples of videos of the actual incidents, or you could do a little research yourself before making blanket statements about the status of police treatment of black people today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XNIclMuYDE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFsVVjQI21w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnDwFkyKimk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Q1qqMp5_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXGRDe24Bxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZwMKxFmYKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5VFyFeoPls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oP1WToagUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1hboBE4D6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPubUIKLzsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PetZU6hwstQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OpecFIdhNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm4nXErG6Wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLXh85Nc1Bk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FEPDJnyTcY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eWry0r4DQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH3puMC23B4
I see that you live in Tacoma so you've probably watched his press briefings.
I only know him through that, but there's always been something about him that has never sat right with me and I don't know what it is.
While we're on the subject, my co-worker and I share a delivery vehicle and he likes to listen to KIRO, the local conservative new talk/opinion station, so one of the first things I hear when starting and warming up the vehicle before I change the station is Dori Monson.
The hypocrisy of that guy. He'll talk about how he supports the police and how police officers involved in shootings of unarmed black men should be fired and put on trial and in jail, but as soon as it's his friend Ed Troyer, he says we shouldn't jump to conclusions and wait until the investigation plays out. Makes me want to reach through the speakers and.punch the guy.
I have to admit that when I saw the scene with the harassment, my gut reaction was "Geez.. Disney spoon-feeding us a message." But then I realized that it wasn't so mucy spoon-feeding, but an accurate portrayal of what our society is dealing with right now. I can see how some would view this as forcing the message down our throats, but it seems rather apparent that far too many people in this country NEED to have the message repeated over and over again.
I also have to wonder if the show might touch upon any kind of "out of touch" thoughts Bucky might have. Despite him being a generally good guy (Winter Soldier deeds not included, of course), he's still a product of the early 20th Century, where even growing up in New York he could have looked down on minorities. I guess it could be argued that spending a few years with the Wakandans helped dispel any lingering racism he might have had.
I also have to wonder if the show might touch upon any kind of "out of touch" thoughts Bucky might have. Despite him being a generally good guy (Winter Soldier deeds not included, of course), he's still a product of the early 20th Century, where even growing up in New York he could have looked down on minorities. I guess it could be argued that spending a few years with the Wakandans helped dispel any lingering racism he might have had.
There are a lot of YouTube video parody of Captain America being super racist/ homophobic/ sexest without realizing it because that was the norm when he grew up but I sincerely doubt Disney would ever do any of that in canon material. I think it has to be taken that Rogers and Barnes are so inately good they had progressive 21st century opinions in the 1930's. That's part of why Steve is so worthy.
I was watching 'Fatman on Batman' today and I thought they (Marc Bernardin) made a really good point that these shows allow Marvel to tell these kinds of stories, about social issues that the movies just don't have time to do.
If we had a Tony Stark series maybe they could have done 'Demon in a bottle'.
If we had a Tony Stark series maybe they could have done 'Demon in a bottle'.
If people got triggered by a 50-60 second scene where Sam experiences racial profiling by cops, wait till you get to Ms. Marvel and a Muslim-American girl dealing with the prejudices she encounters. Some white evangelicals really gonna go ape-shit when she quotes the Quran positively. (Assuming the tv series comes ANYWHERE CLOSE to accurately adapting the character from comic form)
The contrast when they shift their attention to Bucky is telling. They're very polite and call him "Mister Barnes".
I sincerely hope it will. This is just my impression, but it feels like the show is intended to go into that direction. The question is how deeply they'll go.
Oh, I thought they specifically said he got it during the Korean War. Guess I remembered wrong.
We have our Marvel Must Haves for Episode 2. Some of the shirts are pretty cool.
We don't know how long Isaiah had been in operation when he met Bucky, if it was his first mission or if he were a veteran superhero, but his confrontation with Bucky with said to be in 1951, only 8 years after Steve got the serum.
Consider: the US military's response to Bradley being a successful super soldier was to lock him up and experiment on him. It would make sense that he wasn't active too long before they did so. Probably just about long enough to be sure it worked on him, but wasn't going to work on any of their other subjects.
Conversely, HYDRA was afraid of the guy, apparently to the same level they were of Steve. So he must have been a presence for at least a bit. Unless HYDRA's response was solely because he beat Bucky's ass, which could be the case.
Hell, given HYDRA's presence within SHIELD, it's entirely probable that part of the reason Bradley got locked up and turned into a science experiment was due to HYDRA influence after he defeated the Winter Soldier. And, it's further possible, though we could debate how probable, that the very reason he was dispatched into Korea was specifically to test his mettle against the Winter Soldier. Proof of concept, if you will.
I think we can infer, pending any further information being revealed, that Bradley probably wasn't an active Super Soldier for long, but definitely long enough to be on some critical people's radar.
The show has done a great job IMO in dealing with race. Avoided all the ways you could make it feel preachy. They even dodged the easy place to make a mistake by making John Walker not only likeable but a solid soldier as well though not at the level of Captain America of course. Jason
I agree that Walker has been portrayed in a compelling way. It reminds me in a lot of ways of what was done with Mysterio in Far From Home. It won't fool the comic reading portion of the audience, and honestly there are enough warning signs and just simple genre tropes that the average viewer is almost certainly aware of what's likely coming in terms of him being an antagonist, but he doesn't feel like a BAD GUY. I suspect a lot of his charm, and all of his humility, are a facade hiding a monster ego and an authoritarian streak. But at least he doesn't feel like a caricature thus far.
Maybe, but the dialogue gave me the impression he was locked up for doing something heroic that he wasn't supposed to do, not just locked up without any warning after having done exactly as he was told. Like, hypothetically, he had his own version of Steve's raid on the Hydra base, but instead of celebrating his success they called him dangerous and insubordinate and locked him away but still considered him an important research object.
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