Justice League official "Zack Snyder" cut on HBO Max
- Thread starter Ar-Pharazon
- Start date
Yes, but sometimes a more compassionate response is warranted.
I'm curious about it, and I do plan on checking it out, but I'm not excited. Of all of the WB movies coming out on HBOMax it's pretty much at the bottom of my list. Godzilla vs Kong, Dune, Suicide Squad, In The Heights, Tom and Jerry, Judas and The Black Messiah, and Space Jam: A New Legacy, are all pretty far above it on my list of movies I'm looking forward too.
It pisses me off that crap like this is still going on. It puts me right off this series also if true.
... No. His allegations against Whedon and against how Warner Bros.'s investigation went are more important than a minor twitter meltdown over someone else's movie.
You can't demand accountability from someone to whom accountability has never been given.
So there is a new tweet by Ray Fisher that gives us some more specific detail:
So he is claiming that Cyborg was supposed to be the central character of the Snyder version?
I mean, if *I* had made Justice League, i personally would make Superman and Batman, and somewhat WOnder Woman as more "secondary" characters (but not in advertising), and center it through who would be considered a 2nd or 3rd tier character.
But I am going to be looking intently on the Snyder version to see if there is a huge difference in this aspect.
The Whedon version seemed to be pretty equal in screen time... though the scenes, even for eveyrone, did not seem that deep or powerful, characterization wise (and in fact, Cyborg's was probably the most meaningful). I mean, maybe a bit more toward Batman (as the guy who brought everyone together).
It still makes me wonder if he was looking at Gal Gadot's success with Wonder Woman (as her highlight in B v. S. i think certainly hyped us up for her solo movie), and jealous that his movie never even made it to a stage where a director was selected (where Flash had gotten at least 2 choices, Aquaman was made, and a Affleck Batman was in the works with him directing, until his issues surfaced).
Also, what scene was there to "highlight the existence of Cyborg's penis"? I could see that being a very inappropriate joke from Whedon, but doubt that was the actual reason. Not excusable, but perhpas not as bad as it really was.
FIsher is mad that Geoff Johns had taken control of the writing, especially behind the scenes....but as Chief Creative Officer, wouldn't you kinda expect that? Especially with someone who is VERY knowledgable about the background of ALL the characters? And supposedly had significant responsbility fo rthe DCFU?
i definitely want to see the context of the quote... make sure it is really how Fisher reads it. Maybe Johns is holding onto "Hollywood wisdom" (this was pre-Black Panther). Or maybe something is cutoff where it more talks about Fisher's complaints.
He also claimed that all black people were removed? Yeah, it was pretty scarce to begin with -- but wasn't just about everyone Snyder cast still in it? Wasn't General Swanwick (as Martian Manhunter) added in after the Snyder version was approved, and not during the original run?
Will these e0mails be available through the courts at all?
Oh, and Fisher claims that WB lied about Whedon being Snyder's pick to replace him. That i could certainly believe...but i doubt he and Deborah would mentally be in a place to really decide that (and for very legitimate reasons). IF Whedon is as big a DC fan as he was Marvel, I could certainly understand why they chose him (and being responsible for one of the largest grossing movies ever).
P.S. Also saw this link about the Batman V Superman Ultimate cut, which is supposed to be R-Rated... that certainly makes me feel like Snyder really does not understand what Justice League should be about, or who it's for (and by extension, his take on Superman).
So he is claiming that Cyborg was supposed to be the central character of the Snyder version?
I mean, if *I* had made Justice League, i personally would make Superman and Batman, and somewhat WOnder Woman as more "secondary" characters (but not in advertising), and center it through who would be considered a 2nd or 3rd tier character.
But I am going to be looking intently on the Snyder version to see if there is a huge difference in this aspect.
The Whedon version seemed to be pretty equal in screen time... though the scenes, even for eveyrone, did not seem that deep or powerful, characterization wise (and in fact, Cyborg's was probably the most meaningful). I mean, maybe a bit more toward Batman (as the guy who brought everyone together).
It still makes me wonder if he was looking at Gal Gadot's success with Wonder Woman (as her highlight in B v. S. i think certainly hyped us up for her solo movie), and jealous that his movie never even made it to a stage where a director was selected (where Flash had gotten at least 2 choices, Aquaman was made, and a Affleck Batman was in the works with him directing, until his issues surfaced).
Also, what scene was there to "highlight the existence of Cyborg's penis"? I could see that being a very inappropriate joke from Whedon, but doubt that was the actual reason. Not excusable, but perhpas not as bad as it really was.
FIsher is mad that Geoff Johns had taken control of the writing, especially behind the scenes....but as Chief Creative Officer, wouldn't you kinda expect that? Especially with someone who is VERY knowledgable about the background of ALL the characters? And supposedly had significant responsbility fo rthe DCFU?
i definitely want to see the context of the quote... make sure it is really how Fisher reads it. Maybe Johns is holding onto "Hollywood wisdom" (this was pre-Black Panther). Or maybe something is cutoff where it more talks about Fisher's complaints.
He also claimed that all black people were removed? Yeah, it was pretty scarce to begin with -- but wasn't just about everyone Snyder cast still in it? Wasn't General Swanwick (as Martian Manhunter) added in after the Snyder version was approved, and not during the original run?
Will these e0mails be available through the courts at all?
Oh, and Fisher claims that WB lied about Whedon being Snyder's pick to replace him. That i could certainly believe...but i doubt he and Deborah would mentally be in a place to really decide that (and for very legitimate reasons). IF Whedon is as big a DC fan as he was Marvel, I could certainly understand why they chose him (and being responsible for one of the largest grossing movies ever).
P.S. Also saw this link about the Batman V Superman Ultimate cut, which is supposed to be R-Rated... that certainly makes me feel like Snyder really does not understand what Justice League should be about, or who it's for (and by extension, his take on Superman).
Last edited:
Tucker's account:
Illustrates that Helbing is not only ignorant, but an unabashedly racist prick. He was not being facetious, or
This is not a surprise. As I've pointed out before, some of the most "progressive" entertainment companies / production houses--the majority populated by White Liberals collectively sitting on their Ivory Throne of Judgement--practice the same, racist tactics they accuse others of doing. This continuing problem was preceded by the Star Trek Discovery situation with white writers screamed to HR about black Walter Mosley's use of the "N-word" in reference to a personal experience, and the modern day minstrel treatment of Finn (and Boyega, as the actor revealed in 2020) in the Star Wars sequels. This telling problem was and will always continue as long as those who waste no time crying from that aforementioned throne about how "progressive" they are actually earning their place among the worst of the smothering "I'm white and I say so" culture and system.
That system is not going anywhere.
Devil's advocate, he's not completely wrong demographically where they film in Vancouver (though obviously wrong when talking of Canada as a whole).
That being the case, it really should be much more diverse trending towards the Asian population (diversity being more than just black or white) if he was being true to his thoughts. Caucasian should be less than half of everybody on screen.
Again, sadly, the leads of the show were probably not from Vancouver originally either, so, his point is still pretty moot as actors are never from the location of shooting anyways. Yeah, tough to defend from any perspective.
Last edited:
Is he wrong about Canada as a whole? I see you are from Ontario which has similar demographics to America, but Wikipedia says Canada overall is 3.5% black. And for the record it says Vancouver is 1% black, around 45% south and east Asian and 49% White. But of course what we don't know is the racial breakdown of the working actors and extras in Vancouver.
Huh, well, what do you know. I guess he's not that wrong about the country as a whole. Toronto and the surrounding area at least pleasantly look more diverse, anecdotally. So I just assumed.
That's not how I read that. It seems more like his character was toned down in order for the movie to take less heat and his role was reduced because that aspect was a large part of who Cyborg was in this movie. We will find out soon. Visually, his introduction in BVS compared to Justice League is different and not as dark.
More from Snyder on JL https://www.gamesradar.com/zack-sny...1PSEgnmO-9U021eBeSYRpHC_HIOeRfGD5tc8RF8US-cEw
I kinda don't mind this. I like the idea of the Snyder cut sending us off into a darker timeline that is totally incompatible with what the subsequent DC movies have done and are doing. It leaves us in the position to ask "What if?" and imagine our own resolutions to it. (On a side note, I recently finished watching Dark Matter. It's been a very long time since a show has left me on such a brazen cliffhanger. And while it's frustrating, it's kinda nice to have a serialized story remain unfinished. It tests me to ask myself if I really care how it ends.)
I wonder if that wasn't ultimately one of Warner Bros.' biggest sticking points with Snyder. I can see the execs looking at a cliffhanger ending for Justice League and saying, "Oh no, not 2 or 3 more movies of this shit! This completely derails all the plans that we have for doing more solo movies, future Harley Quinn projects, expanding the Bat-family, etc."
I feel like you could sum up most of Snyder's filmography with that line: Slightly pretentious but not obnoxiously so. I really like the visuals in that video but the song choice, like many of Snyder's song choices, make me say, "Oh, get over yourself!" At the same time, it's hard to hold it against him because pretentious Snyder seems so good natured and doesn't really demand to be TAKEN SERIOUSLY like pretentious Nolan movies do.
What I find interesting about Snyder, and I can't think of any other filmmaker that evokes this response from me, is that I don't dislike his movies but I do disagree with his movies. Like, he makes a fantastic looking movie that seems to say, "This is what Superman is," or, "This is what Watchmen is." And I'm like, "No, you're wrong." It's not a judgment on quality but a philosophical dispute. Perhaps the reason why I like Sucker Punch is because it's not based on anything so I don't have any grounds on which to disagree with the movie's viewpoint.
I guess part of it is that a lot of movies feel very homogenized. There's a school of thought on how movies should be made and everyone operates within that framework, regardless of how personal the material or idiosyncratic the director. But in a Snyder movie, I can't shake the feeling that this is Snyder's viewpoint. Most movies pretend to present an objective viewpoint of the world that they're depicting. But Snyder is just filling every movie with his ideas and his impulses for what he thinks might be cool.
It just occurred to me that it totally makes sense that Snyder is such a big Leonard Cohen fan. Cohen's lyrics are really cool but I'm not sure that they add up to much if you try to parse them out literally. "First We Take Manhattan" refuses to make sense for more than a couple lines at a time but the song conveys a feeling that's going to vary quite a bit depending on the listener.
That's a little different. It's one thing to just have a statue of a superhero within the narrative of the movie. But in this case, we're looking at 2 very similar sequences of a montage of statues of all the heroes existing outside of any literal narrative within the movie.
The Mother Box trailer for Zack Snyder's Justice League:
The closing credits for Joss Whedon's The Avengers: Age of Ultron:
So there is a new tweet by Ray Fisher that gives us some more specific detail:
"Play Cyborg like Quasimodo"? I'm not sure what's supposed to be problematic about that. The analogy makes sense to me. They're both characters that hide in the shadows because they're self-conscious about their deformity, whether it's a hunched back or being a half-robot man.
That's been a fairly common rumor ever since speculation about the Snyder cut began.
Yeah, I've got no idea what he's talking about either. It's certainly nothing that showed up in the theatrical cut. Maybe it's one of the crappy Whedon jokes that got cut, like all the dialogue between Batman & the cat burglar on the roof at the beginning. (Some scenes got excised. Maybe this scene got circumcised!
)I'm not sure about General Swanwick. But Iris West was completely edited out of the theatrical cut. And I imagine that Joe Morton's character originally had a lot more screentime.
Does it really count as a lie if no one believed them to begin with?
But given that Vancouver is standing in for Metropolis, it would make more sense from a demographic perspective for the cast to resemble the racial breakdown of an eastern U.S. city like New York or Chicago rather than Vancouver, Canada.
Per HBOMax, the four hour movie is going to be broken down into six chapters.
Chapter 1 - "Don't Count On It, Batman!"
Chapter 2 - The Age Of Heroes
Chapter 3 - Beloved Mother, Beloved Son
Chapter 4 - "Change Machine"
Chapter 5 - All The King's Horses
Chapter 6 - Something Darker
Chapter 1 - "Don't Count On It, Batman!"
Chapter 2 - The Age Of Heroes
Chapter 3 - Beloved Mother, Beloved Son
Chapter 4 - "Change Machine"
Chapter 5 - All The King's Horses
Chapter 6 - Something Darker
Jeez, just call it a mini-series already and be done with it. That's what Das Boot did.
I can only imagine myself watching this in 1 hour chunks, maybe 2 if I find it better than I expected. Can’t imagine that I’ll stick 4 hours of the Snyderiest Snyder going.
I don’t mind the ratio thing so much, as my parents bought me a projector for my last birthday and the screen I got is adjustable. I frequently find it hard to get 16:9 films just right, so maybe this ratio will work better.
To be fair, he made this movie years ago when there WAS supposed to be a sequel or two. He didn't do any reshoots on this, he wanted to present it as how he filmed it originally.
Who knows, maybe, just maybe it will get a sequel if it's really successful. Just finishing this movie for HBO Max was like $70 million or something. That's quite an investment.
Similar threads
