When Wanda touched the head of Vision she said she couldn't feel him. I think that was a fake Vision body while they were working on the other one. I mean, they probably had that body for 5 years. Why only dismantle it now?
Spoilers WandaVision discussion thread
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Doesn't it? I thought the whole point was that Steve put them all back when they came from?
I don't think the footage was doctored, just creatively edited. Think about her real visit to sword: she uses her power to blast open the door despite the guard offering to buzz her in, stalks angrily down the hall just like we already saw and breaks through the window to hover menacingly over the soldiers. I don't remember for sure, but I think that's as far as the original video got.
In any case, even if I'm wrong it would make perfect sense for a guy like Hayward to immediately see that visit as a potential insurance policy in case Wanda ever tried something against him and Sword level resources and MCU technology would be able to achieve the very small amount of doctoring necessary in no time flat.
Still, what's to stop it being plucked from when/where it was? Just like Loki and the Space Stone.
Good points there. I did think it was weird that they were only dismantling them just now, but I didn't think of how Wanda said she couldn't feel Vision. I thought it was because the Mind Stone was gone, but what you're suggesting makes sense, too.
However, that comes back to my point about how did Hayward and SWORD know ahead of time to stage a fake set-up before Wanda's arrival?
You might be right about that. I'm planning to rewatch all eight episodes before the finale drops, so I'll keep a close eye on that sequence when it comes up. If it's just a case of clever editing, then that's easier to make that video in a short period of time.
But again, she was dead for those five years and she went to SWORD pretty quickly after she was brought back. Not much time for Hayward to plan ahead in those circumstances.
Even that I would consider part of my multiverse theory. My original point was that in this current timeline, the Mind Stone no longer exists. Therefore something extraordinary has to happen in order for it to be used in such a manner to "activate" mutants, assuming that's the direction the MCU is heading in.
Hayward flat out says they've taken Vision's body apart and put it back together quite a few times trying to reactivate it.
I'm not talking about any sort of planning ahead before her visit. She visits. He immediately thinks 'She could be a problem in the future, this security footage should be doctored to discredit her just in case' and immediately orders someone to make it so. With SWORD resources and MCU technology, the work would be done within days at most, before Darcy ever arrived at the camp.
Thanos destroying the stones does not mean the stones don't exist. Remember the Ancient One said the stones fundamentally control the flow of time itself and removing even one from existence would be disastrous. I think it follows that the Stones still exist somewhere in the universe (maybe everywhere in the universe if you want to get really metaphysical), just not specifically in *stone* form. Maybe they could be reconstituted, or maybe they wouldn't even need to be.
Unless all the multiverse stuff is what happens when you remove the stones from reality, which I guess is possible...
In any case, if the MCU is going to use infinity stone power as the explanation for mutants, then the exposure has probably already happened. Thanos exposed just about everyone in existence to Infinity stone radiation when he made half of all life disappear. Snap - a whole bunch of mutants spring into existence with five post-snap years to figure out what they are and how their powers work. Then the Avengers did the same thing again. Snap - a whole bunch more mutants spring into existence looking to the first group for guidance and now it's becoming increasingly harder to hide this whole thing from the world at large.
That's how it will happen if the stones are the cause. Having to engineer another new event with a newly reconstituted stone is way too clunky and wouldn't allow them the room to have multiple groups of mutants with varying levels of experience.
I wonder that too. Maybe they expected her to come since she was his partner. Felt staged the way they had it set up.Where's Vision? Why, he's right here outside my office window. It felt like a play by Hayward to push her over the edge.
What I wonder is when did Vision buy that property? His and Wanda's relationship started during Civil War and they were on the run on after that. Even if he is Vision I think that was a little risky as it might be traced to where they were.
So maybe that "gift" isn't from Vision. Maybe Hayward sent that note and that leads to Wanda showing up at Sword where he was ready and waiting for her with his display.
On a completely different note I felt they did a great job with Wanda and her mental struggles in this episode. How she describes her pain to Vision, the waves that keep knocking her down. It's powerful stuff. I'm glad they are dealing with subject matters like this.
Any reason the snap itself couldn’t cause the mutant gene to activate?
It would have the benefit of being conveniently the same power source as Wanda’s transformation.
Except it would affect 50% of the population.
Monica herself might be a mutant and her triple trip through Wanda’s force field accelerated her transformation even more quickly.
Every blipped person has now a potential origin story.
The episodes continue to fly by, and can't believe it's the last one next week.
I also can't believe how much Wanda and Vision have gone up in my estimation during this show.
I also can't believe how much Wanda and Vision have gone up in my estimation during this show.
Some other things I wanted to mention about today's episode:
I'm still not convinced Agatha is the bad guy. Yes, the opening and closing scenes are very clearly designed to make her look bad. But think about them more directly: She seems just as surprised as her coven that she can overpower them. She doesn't actually do anything against anyone who isn't already attacking her. She does admit to breaking their rules (bending, technically) but there is no hint of any kind as to what rule she actually broke or why. She doesn't seemingly feel bad about any of their deaths (though she does keep her mother's brooch), but being uncaring isn't the same as being evil.
And the confrontation on the street looks straight out of a comic book fight scene with a villain, but she's not talking about anything even remotely related to any kind of evil plan or even a hypothetical agenda. She's talking about what Wanda is and how she wasn't supposed to exist and is super-dangerous.
Combine that with the fact that she spent most of the episode actually helping Wanda (the whole mind trip was pretty clearly therapeutic) and while she wanted information out of it, too, she was borderline sympathetic multiple times. She even talked about having tried to nudge Wanda to self-conciousness much more gently (which seems to track with the previous episodes). And then there's also the fact that she seems completely and totally uninterested in the idea of taking Wanda's magic (or the twins' magic), which the previous episodes already warned us about with the Yo-Magic commercial. I think Agatha is being set up as a gritty, morally unsupportable anti-hero, not a grandiose villain.
I'm betting by the end of next week's episode we'll see Wanda, Monica, Agatha and Fietro all fighting together against Sword, the fake Vision and also something else that still hasn't been fully brought out into the open. Something which would very much like to steal Wanda's magic and is perhaps somehow involved in the Twins' creation.
As for what that something is, I still point to Emma Caulfield's Dot. She was made a big deal of in episode 2 like she was really important in Westview, but then she never took part in any other story except as an onlooker when Wanda had a public scene last week. Also significant, I think, is that the show went out of its way in today's episode to show us a glimpse of what the people of Westview were like before Wanda showed up, but there were two very conspicuous absences in that sequence: Evan Peters and Emma Caulfield. At this point I think it's pretty obvious Evan Peters is Jimmy Woo's missing informant so he was probably holed up somewhere. But why no Emma Caulfield? Could it be because Dot, just like 'Agnes' and 'Geraldine', was never actually a Westview resident to start with?
Keep in mind that Dot was also directly linked to the whole 'For the Children' theme which seems still very important. And her talent show could even be viewed as the impetus that got Wanda and Vision over the edge from worrying about getting found out to wanting kids. Also, while her willingness to view their 'magic show' as actually a 'comedy show' could easily be part of a script, it could also indicate an agenda and an ability to step outside the script the way the regular people of Westview couldn't (remember none of them clapped until she did). On top of that, I still find it weird that Caulfield wasn't announced to be on the show until just before it dropped. If she were a bigger name, that could be seen as a surprise announcement to get people excited for the premiere. If she were an unknown it could just be an oversight. But as is, it really feels like they were trying to keep speculation about her character to a minimum before the show, which would only make sense if her character is way more important than just 'Dot'.
Anyway, leaving my preferred theories behind, just a few other things I thought worth mentioning:
Unless Jimmy's informant was giving the FBI information about the crazy alternate universe he came from, I think Agatha pretty clearly confirmed that Evan Peters is not the Fox Quicksilver. But since he clearly probably is Jimmy's informant, I'm betting Peters is getting cast as some kind of important MCU character here. Maybe he's a new human side character or maybe this whole thing will give him permanent powers, too. Is there another Marvel speedster who could be a big deal for people?
Is it just me or did Agatha imply that Wanda subconsciously used her abilities to protect her and her brother not just from the bomb but also from the Mind Stone? Cause that would really handily explain why they were literally the only two people who survived those experiments.
And just in general, there is still A LOT of ground left for the next episode to cover. Next week is going to be really cool and I really hope it wraps everything up perfectly.
I'm still not convinced Agatha is the bad guy. Yes, the opening and closing scenes are very clearly designed to make her look bad. But think about them more directly: She seems just as surprised as her coven that she can overpower them. She doesn't actually do anything against anyone who isn't already attacking her. She does admit to breaking their rules (bending, technically) but there is no hint of any kind as to what rule she actually broke or why. She doesn't seemingly feel bad about any of their deaths (though she does keep her mother's brooch), but being uncaring isn't the same as being evil.
And the confrontation on the street looks straight out of a comic book fight scene with a villain, but she's not talking about anything even remotely related to any kind of evil plan or even a hypothetical agenda. She's talking about what Wanda is and how she wasn't supposed to exist and is super-dangerous.
Combine that with the fact that she spent most of the episode actually helping Wanda (the whole mind trip was pretty clearly therapeutic) and while she wanted information out of it, too, she was borderline sympathetic multiple times. She even talked about having tried to nudge Wanda to self-conciousness much more gently (which seems to track with the previous episodes). And then there's also the fact that she seems completely and totally uninterested in the idea of taking Wanda's magic (or the twins' magic), which the previous episodes already warned us about with the Yo-Magic commercial. I think Agatha is being set up as a gritty, morally unsupportable anti-hero, not a grandiose villain.
I'm betting by the end of next week's episode we'll see Wanda, Monica, Agatha and Fietro all fighting together against Sword, the fake Vision and also something else that still hasn't been fully brought out into the open. Something which would very much like to steal Wanda's magic and is perhaps somehow involved in the Twins' creation.
As for what that something is, I still point to Emma Caulfield's Dot. She was made a big deal of in episode 2 like she was really important in Westview, but then she never took part in any other story except as an onlooker when Wanda had a public scene last week. Also significant, I think, is that the show went out of its way in today's episode to show us a glimpse of what the people of Westview were like before Wanda showed up, but there were two very conspicuous absences in that sequence: Evan Peters and Emma Caulfield. At this point I think it's pretty obvious Evan Peters is Jimmy Woo's missing informant so he was probably holed up somewhere. But why no Emma Caulfield? Could it be because Dot, just like 'Agnes' and 'Geraldine', was never actually a Westview resident to start with?
Keep in mind that Dot was also directly linked to the whole 'For the Children' theme which seems still very important. And her talent show could even be viewed as the impetus that got Wanda and Vision over the edge from worrying about getting found out to wanting kids. Also, while her willingness to view their 'magic show' as actually a 'comedy show' could easily be part of a script, it could also indicate an agenda and an ability to step outside the script the way the regular people of Westview couldn't (remember none of them clapped until she did). On top of that, I still find it weird that Caulfield wasn't announced to be on the show until just before it dropped. If she were a bigger name, that could be seen as a surprise announcement to get people excited for the premiere. If she were an unknown it could just be an oversight. But as is, it really feels like they were trying to keep speculation about her character to a minimum before the show, which would only make sense if her character is way more important than just 'Dot'.
Anyway, leaving my preferred theories behind, just a few other things I thought worth mentioning:
Unless Jimmy's informant was giving the FBI information about the crazy alternate universe he came from, I think Agatha pretty clearly confirmed that Evan Peters is not the Fox Quicksilver. But since he clearly probably is Jimmy's informant, I'm betting Peters is getting cast as some kind of important MCU character here. Maybe he's a new human side character or maybe this whole thing will give him permanent powers, too. Is there another Marvel speedster who could be a big deal for people?
Is it just me or did Agatha imply that Wanda subconsciously used her abilities to protect her and her brother not just from the bomb but also from the Mind Stone? Cause that would really handily explain why they were literally the only two people who survived those experiments.
And just in general, there is still A LOT of ground left for the next episode to cover. Next week is going to be really cool and I really hope it wraps everything up perfectly.
Excellent episode! (even a bit longer than others)
Lots of backstory. Lots of emotion. So Vision's body was never in WestView. That video of Wanda stealing the body was a fake!
Wanda had latent witch powers even as baby (hex probability, which is what saved her and Pietro)
Shit is getting real...
So what is up with Chaos Magic?
And we finally get the Scarlet Witch name called out
Lots of backstory. Lots of emotion. So Vision's body was never in WestView. That video of Wanda stealing the body was a fake!
Wanda had latent witch powers even as baby (hex probability, which is what saved her and Pietro)
Shit is getting real...
So what is up with Chaos Magic?
And we finally get the Scarlet Witch name called out
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In her mind stone vision the figure is wearing the scarlet witch outfit.
So Wanda didn’t just come up with it for her Halloween story, she had already seen it in the past. Probably did it subconsciously. Yes she said it was the costume of a Sakovian fortune teller, but she could have been making it up because she couldn’t remember (or did and didn’t want to tell the truth)
So Wanda didn’t just come up with it for her Halloween story, she had already seen it in the past. Probably did it subconsciously. Yes she said it was the costume of a Sakovian fortune teller, but she could have been making it up because she couldn’t remember (or did and didn’t want to tell the truth)
“There is one character that has not been revealed. And it is very exciting. It is an actor I’ve longed to work with all of my life. We have some amazing scenes together and I think the chemistry between us is extraordinary and fireworks on set.” - Paul Bettany while trolling the MCU fans 
If you of course make the assumption that OG Vision will face off against White Vision inside the hex and Bettany meant he'll be interacting with himself in the finale.
If you of course make the assumption that OG Vision will face off against White Vision inside the hex and Bettany meant he'll be interacting with himself in the finale.
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Right and I said I'm fine with that if it's simply a cleverly edited with existing footage. But if it's a lot more than, an elaborate doctored video, then it's a little harder to swallow to do something like that in such a small timeframe. Like I said, I need to watch that video again to be certain.
That's true but it doesn't seem like whatever form they're in now is readily findable. Unless someone has specific knowledge to figure where and in what form the Mind Stone is in now, it seems that a multiverse solution is more likely. Narratively speaking, multiverse is the newer thing anyways.
Maybe, but considering the fact mutants aren't going to be introduced for awhile (probably not until at least Phase 5) makes me think that a more direct catalyst occurs towards the end of everything going on with the multiverses. Otherwise, mutants will have existed simply in the background for however long after Tony's snap and yet somehow no one seemed to notice?
I agree reconstituting the destroyed Mind Stone is too clunky which is why I suggested that the catalyst coming from the multiverse event itself.
Yeah, that all makes sense...except they had no reason to believe that Wanda would ever come back to life.
I wondered about that, too, and I think you're right that it's possible that Hayward sent her that note to draw her out.
With all that in mind, I guess it's possible, even likely that it was more than a few days after Tony's snap that Wanda went to SWORD. That's the simplest explanation, I suppose.
Yeah, I greatly appreciated all of that. How Wanda's mental state would be portrayed after everything that happened to her was one of my biggest concerns when the show was first announced but I'm relieved to see how they handled it.
Brilliant!“There is one character that has not been revealed. And it is very exciting. It is an actor I’ve longed to work with all of my life. We have some amazing scenes together and I think the chemistry between us is extraordinary and fireworks on set.” - Paul Bettany while trolling the MCU fans
If you of course make the assumption that OG Vision will face off against White Vision inside the hex and Bettany meant he'll be interacting with himself in the finale.
That said, I'm still pretty certain he's actually referring to Benedict Cumberbatch.
I don't know...I still think the Emma Caufield is the real villain theory is still a bit of a stretch. Is Caufield really that big of a name? I've barely heard of her but then I never watched Buffy. Has she done anything else noteworthy that would warrant that kind of obfuscation? It seems more likely that she was simply wasn't announced later because she wasn't that big of a deal.
As for the rest of your musings, I'm still split regarding Agatha. I agree with your larger points about her not doing anything actively evil per se (other than, you know, kidnapping and killing a dog) and she seems somewhat sympathetic of Wanda. However, she also seems rather power hungry, as a result of her unexpected experience in Salem when she gained her coven's powers instead of being punished. The way she kept pushing Wanda about what set her off to demonstrate such powerful magic seemed more out of self-interest than therapy.
Also, while this show loves piling surprises on top of surprises (Evan Peters, Agatha All Along, White Vision, etc.), I find it unlikely that there's still one more big surprise (outside of the impending big cameo we already know that's coming) in the final episode. Plus, it would feel a bit cheap to say that after all of the teasing with Agatha since the beginning to only say "Surprise, it was actually Emma Caufield as Mephisto!" Most people probably don't even remember Dot from her singular episode (plus one blink and you miss it moment later on) unless they were already familiar with Caufield.
As much as I hate to admit, I fear that you're right Evan Peters is not XMU Quicksilver. More than anything else, Agatha admitted that she was responsible for him and that he's just a fake. It seems unlikely that she would have said that if he was actually from the XMU and only said he was fake on a technicality that he's not the MCU Pietro.
As for him being Jimmy's informant, that seems likely considering there are no other options for Jimmy's informant (and I would hate that to be a red herring throwaway). But as you said, it does seem odd that he just happens to be a speedster like Pietro and happens to have connections with Agatha, so I don't know even know anymore.
I agree about the bomb part, but I missed where Agatha implied that with the Mind Stone, too.
There’s still a gun that’s been sitting on the shelf since Episode 4: The mysterious Beekeeper. From the way the camera lingered on him in his last shot in 4, and Fietro mentioning how ethical Wanda was trying to be in 5, it’s clear now he was NOT zapped/rewound out of existence. He’s still in Westview. And they were sooooo careful not to show us his face or hear his voice. So either he was the guy Agatha took over to become Fietro... or he’s our Surprise Cameo Character, soon to be quite literally unmasked.
Or Clark Gregg acting like he knew nothing about the upcoming Agents of SHIELD television show on ABC.
Given that it looked like Wanda drove directly to Westview after visiting SWORD and immediately reformed the town, and they were still in the Dick Van Dyke Show version when the base camp was set up, I don't think Wanda could've seen Vision's body more than two days before Monica returned to work and was sent to Westview, and even that much is just giving Jimmy enough time to fly in from the west coast and call up SWORD for a consultation. So it was probably three-weeks-minus-a-day since the blip.
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