Spoilers WandaVision discussion thread

[theenglish]

If she is Agatha Harkness, and she's the same kind of character as she is in the comics, I have a feeling she'd be a lot harder for Wanda to control than the rest of the residents of Westview.

I don't think there is a question--Agnes is AGatha HarkNESs. I didn't look for it this past episode but we've been watching every episode twice, but she always has the same broach. She shows up conveniently when she needs to.

Also, even though I know people are talking about Mephisto have we really seen onscreen evidence?

I really think that Wanda is the Big Bad for Phase IV, which would be great in the sense that Wanda is a complex character that the audience has sympathy for. Wanda and Quicksilver have always been complex in the comics--are they heroes or are they villains? Having Wanda be the Big Bad would be like Willow in Season 6 of Buffy--she's doing bad things but the audience cares about her. It would be an intriguing arc that would also be a pay off for those who have followed the movies for the past twelve years.

 

[Kor]

Well... that was unexpected.

Kor

 

[Relayer1]

I really think that Wanda is the Big Bad for Phase IV

I certainly hadn't considered that. I was expecting resolution by the end of Wandavision.

Hmmm...

 

[crookeddy]

The acting on this show is next level! This is two very talented individuals absolutely giving a comic book show their all.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

So my running theory so far: Agnes is the FBI informant/WITSEC. She's not just any old witness, she's an actual witch (maybe another of the Sanctorum's sorcerers gone rogue) and the amnesia hex/spell is her doing. The giant hexagon is literally her spell; a massive hexagram akin to one of those geometric shapes that we always see sorcerers conjure.
I'm not sure if this was part of an intentional attempt on her part to capture and/or control Wanda (let alone her motivations) or whether this whole thing is just a confluence of unforeseen consequences (bit too much of a coincidence for my taste.)

Regardless; even Wanda's subconscious was too powerful and volatile for her to get a handle on and she became just as trapped as everyone. The sitcom, the puppeteering people, the bending of reality is all Wanda. At first it may just have been her mind trying to protect itself from the combination of a magical amnesia spell and a grief induced psychotic break, but as the days have gone on she's become more aware of her agency, beginning to act out the fantasy until she's fully in control, starting with the "stop it!" incident and ending with the birth of the twins.

I think Agnes is able to break character precisely because she knows what's going on and is cooperating with Wanda's "script", in the same way the 80's tech drone was able to retain it's form because it wasn't conflicting with the "production design".

Jimmy Woo said his missing informant was a guy, though.

 

[Seven of Five]

That was a fun twist at the end!

Not sure where the story is going, and that's great.

 

[Gordie]

Keeps you wondering.

Something nefarious has to happen. I don't think Wanda taking over the town is it. I don't believe she is the antagonist.

I am liking this show a lot.

 

[Reverend]

Not really a mystery on this show specifically, but a feature of Wanda's powers that's always bothered me; her powers are reality warping and red, just like whenever Thanos with the glove would use the reality stone. So how did she get to have reality stone power from exposure to the mind stone (also, how does mind stone + Pietro = run fast!?)
Side note: Why didn't Jane Foster: the person we know for a fact was directly exposed to the actual reality stone get powers?

Jimmy Woo said his missing informant was a guy, though.

Does he know that for a fact or is he just presuming on a pronoun? Isn't it a feature of WITSEC that only a select few know the real identity of a witness? So far the only real candidates for suspicion is Agnes (and maybe Dottie) the former of which doesn't seem to have a NJ licence or a real name filled out on her identity sheet. As for Dottie; I'm guessing she was the lead scientist on the "Children of The Vision" project or whatever they're calling it.

This show is going to drive me crazy trying to figure out exactly what's happening.

Right!? I think I have a handle on most of the major pieces so far and a good working theory about the motivations. The key seems to be the inciting incident with Vision's body.

The guy who raped Carol Danvers, Marcus, opens up a can of worms. Marcus was the son of immortus. Immortus was a time traveler of long standing. For the longest time, it was believed that he was a descendant of Doctor Doom until it was finally revealed that he was in fact a descendant of Reed Richards. He started his time-traveling career as Rama-Tut, ended it as Immortus, but in between those two identities, he was known as... Kang the Conqueror. Kang will be debuting in Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania. ETA: He was actually time traveling before his time as Rama-Tut during his time as Iron Lad with the Young Avengers-- which provides a link to Tommy and Billy!

This is the MCU after all, it has a long track record of adapting and streamlining most of the usual convoluted comic book weirdness into something comprehensible for a neophyte audience.

And, yeah, I also believe that Tommy and Billy are the key to this whole thing. In the first episode we have Mrs. Hart asking why they don't have children. And in the second episode we have the town's people with their creepy cult like chant of "for the children". Whoever or whatever is behind all of this needs those kids for its own nefarious purposes.

The idea that Wanda was pregnant before the snap might play into this; what if the whole reason for trying to create "children" from Vision's corpse is because someone knew she was pregnant, but when the snap happened they lost any chance of getting their hands on them and so attempted to engineer them...unsuccessfully. Then the blip happens, suddenly the unborn children of Wanda and The Vision exist again so they lure Wanda in with the location of Vision's body. They have a witch on hand to trap her in some spell but whoopsie; (probably) most powerful telekinetic in the galaxy + mind control spell + psychotic break = colossal backfire.

 

[thribs]

They got the wrong Kick-Ass. That’s Ass-Kicker

 

[Turtletrekker]

I don't think that Wanda was pregnant before the snap. I felt that the whole "pushing the beds together" thing at the beginning of that episode was supposed to indicate that that was when she got pregnant.

 

[ITDUDE]

They got the wrong Kick-Ass. That’s Ass-Kicker

Can you work in to this a King Kong/Godzilla and incest reference in, somehow

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I came into it knowing nothing about it, other than hearing on FB that the were using elements of old sitcoms. The first episode just annoyed me, so I left it where it was for a couple of days. Same thing happened with Lower Decks, and it took me a while to enjoy it.

I didn't get into the show at all until Darcy showed up. It stopped being weird and goofy and started becoming a mystery. I got caught up this morning.

 

[Anwar]

I know it's most likely not going to happen, but it would be fun if there was a shout out to Nicholas Scratch and 'Salem's Seven'. I'd even settle for the High Evolutionary and Bova.

Agnes cat was called "Senor Scratch", I think. If she is Agatha Harkness, then that's another hint.

 

[Jayson1]

This series is getting better. I'm enjoying the ride, even though they are throwing out one curve after another. I'm so glad they are intercutting both Wanda's World and the Real World now. Also, I loved the Full House theme, and the scene between Vision and Norm was creepy.

I don't think it was Full House. I think they were going for Growing Pains.


Jason

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Not really a mystery on this show specifically, but a feature of Wanda's powers that's always bothered me; her powers are reality warping and red, just like whenever Thanos with the glove would use the reality stone. So how did she get to have reality stone power from exposure to the mind stone (also, how does mind stone + Pietro = run fast!?)
Side note: Why didn't Jane Foster: the person we know for a fact was directly exposed to the actual reality stone get powers?

One theory about Wanda and Pietro is the stone didn't 'give' them their powers at all, it merely unlocked the potential they already had (they could retroactively be the first MCU mutants). This would explain why no one else survived the experiments, yet both of them just happened to do so. As a theory, it could fall apart when taking Captain Marvel into account since she's the only other person we know of so far who got permanent powers from interacting with an infinity stone and we've been given no reason to believe her powers are anything other than that. But, in the comics the Captain Marvel powers are actually a sort of Kree legacy and Carol finds out a long, long way into her life that the reason she was actually capable of receiving them from Mar-Vell was because she actually is half-Kree (her mother was a Kree exile hiding as a human on Earth). So it is possible some version of that concept could turn out to be true, as well, in the mcu. If that happened, then they would all have just had their pre-existing potential unlocked, not been granted Infinity stone powers based on the specific stone they interacted with. But... that would require Carol's powers to actually be a pre-existing legacy of some kind outside of herself, which doesn't seem to fit with what they want for that character. At least not based on what we've seen so far.

In any case, one thing we can clearly say is that even if it really is the infinity stones 'giving people powers' in these cases, the idea that the powers given are based on what the stone itself normally does is clearly way too simplistic because none of the three known cases fit that description.

As for why Jane got nothing, that too could fit neatly into the 'unlocking potential' theory - maybe she didn't have any potential to unlock. But it also doesn't seem at all comparable to the other cases, either. The Aether as I recall seemed to almost have agency in way none of the other stones did. Exposure to it could very easily have highly different results than exposure to the others. And simple exposure and outright experimentation are also two different things of course. On top of all that, Jane had the Aether removed by Asgardians who are seemingly the biggest existing experts on the Aether so they may have simply been able to counter all its effects.

Does he know that for a fact or is he just presuming on a pronoun? Isn't it a feature of WITSEC that only a select few know the real identity of a witness? So far the only real candidates for suspicion is Agnes (and maybe Dottie) the former of which doesn't seem to have a NJ licence or a real name filled out on her identity sheet. As for Dottie; I'm guessing she was the lead scientist on the "Children of The Vision" project or whatever they're calling it.

The whole reason he's on site to begin with was because he was supposed to come down and make contact with the witness, right? It would be rather ridiculous for the guy who's job it is to go and find the witness to not be allowed to know who exactly he's supposed to be trying to find.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Who says, Jane was not affected by the Aether?

Based on rumors about the upcoming Thor movie she has developed cancer but will also get Thor‘s powers.
The Aether may very we’ll have played a role in that development.

 

[Jayson1]

Jimmy Woo said his missing informant was a guy, though.

What if she can shift someone's gender or sex? I read how in the comic version they had a son and daughter so I keep expecting one of the boys to be changed through Wanda's magic. More "recasting" in line with her brother being different. Jimmy saying guy and the Agnes witch stuff might all be a red hearing and that she is actually a Sword Agent or maybe even a mutant or something. Also what if people's memoires outside the town have also been changed in some cases. I got a theory that Sword didn't even exist until Wanda created this town bubble. It's why we never saw them in any movies or even in "Agents of Shield." The outside world is already been changed but nobody knows it except maybe we the audience will know it soon and maybe Wanda herself.


Jason

 

[Turtletrekker]

Side note: Why didn't Jane Foster: the person we know for a fact was directly exposed to the actual reality stone get powers?
.

The Aether may not have given Jane powers, but given the plot of Love and Thunder, I'm guessing what it gave her was cancer.

And I have to wonder why Howard Stark wasn't affected when this was essentially the same thing that happened to Carol.

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[ITDUDE]

The Aether may not have given Jane powers, but given the plot of Love and Thunder, I'm guessing what it gave her was cancer.

And I have to wonder why Howard Stark wasn't affected when this was essentially the same thing that happened to Carol.

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Cancer is a bitch, it has no accurate timeline and affects everyone differently. Plus Winter Soldier happened to Howard Stark

 

[Photoman15]

I don't think it was Full House. I think they were going for Growing Pains.


Jason

The set was "Family Ties"