TAS made real....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
This is one of the main things I like about your Kzinti ship design. It looks like it was made out of recycled '50s vacu-formed diner kitsch,
That sort of fits the FASA Gorn ship designs, wedges with underlying flat rectangular nacelles!
The only two miniatures FASA released for their STSTCS starship game.
From the side that bears some resemblance to my Bonaventure design. Neat.I designed this for my 50th anniversary collection of ships encountered during the 5YM. It was based both on an unused model Wah Chang built (I suspect based on one of Matt Jefferies’ sketches) and on the old Star Fleet Battles Gorn designs. I meant it to look vaguely amphibian/ frog-like.
htt
I ran across a fascinating design a while back. The USS Metaluna, a Cruzan class ship. The designer made several variations including a Bonnaventure.
While I think the scale of the design is a bit small, I think the overall design idea, of a nice sleek ship with a few parts added on, is a great way to handle this ship. I think being too slavish to the animated version leaves the final product more comic than almost art deco like a lot of the other designs.
While I think the scale of the design is a bit small, I think the overall design idea, of a nice sleek ship with a few parts added on, is a great way to handle this ship. I think being too slavish to the animated version leaves the final product more comic than almost art deco like a lot of the other designs.
In this thread I’m exploring what elements of TAS could have been like if the stories had been live-action. But this largely (with exception) sidesteps the issue that if TAS stories had actually been part of a fourth TOS season for 1969-70 then many if not all of the story elements would have been drastically different—no more just drawing whatever you can imagine. Pretty much all the stories would have had to be near completely re-imagined and extensively rewritten, and some of them might have been impossible. It could have called for an extensive use of new matte paintings. Some on-location shooting could have been required. Pretty much all the exotic aliens would have had to be reconceived. And all the interesting hardware would most likely have looked quite different given they would now have to be built rather than just drawn, and they would have been designed by Matt Jefferies rather than Filmation illustrators.
This might be an avenue worth exploring. To a limited extent I already have in re-imagining the old starship Bonaventure. In some respects it could be liberating because we would no longer be tied to trying to rationalize things after the fact. Instead we would be starting with a clean sheet trying to imagine what Matt Jefferies and the TOS production staff could come up with based solely on what they knew and what resources could be drawn upon in 1969-70.
The one conceit (other than a speculative fourth season for TOS) is assuming the TAS stories could have been pitched pretty much as they were only a few years sooner. It's at that point many of the ideas and elements we are familiar with would be drastically changed to work as live-action.
"Beyond The Farthest Star" - The feasibility of constructing a version of the alien pod ship was discussed early near the beginning of this thread. Even given the resources of the day I think it is still quite possible this ship could have been done very closely resembling what we saw in TAS. That said it's quite possible the ancient alien ship could have looked quite different if the ship's description had been vague or undefined when the story was pitched. It could be interesting to explore what else might have been possible.
I suspect the whole walking-on-the-alien-hull sequence would have been ditched even with the existing TOS EVA suits or even life-support belts. Matte paintings and one or two key sets might have sufficed to depict the interior of the alien ship. A disembodied voice and green light representing the alien entity would have been old hat for the TOS production crew.
"Yesteryear" - A live-action version of this filmed back in the day would have meant dropping the exotic life forms such as the lematye, the avian Aurelian historian and maybe even Spock's pet sehlat I'Chaya. The view of the city Shikahr could have been accomplished with a matte painting. It's possible some Paramount backlot could have sufficed somehow for scenes outside Sarek and Amanda's home. It might also have been possible to ressurect the Guardian of Forever set. And finally the Andorian Commander Thelin should have posed no problems. And one can only hope that Mark Lenard and Jane Wyatt were available to reprise their roles albeit made to look younger than they had appeared earlier in "Journey To Babel."
"One Of Our Planets Is Missing" - The quintessential bottle show there is really little reason whatsoever this story couldn't have been done live-action. The only fx requirement would be to depict a large space borne cloud creature and TOS had already done something like that in "Obsession." The one challenge could be showing the Enterprise passing through the creature's interior and they might have found a clever way to do it given it isn't too dissimilar to what was done in "The Immunity Syndrome."
"The Lorelei Signal" - Beautiful Amazonian like women and male crew members zoning out and aging at an accelerated rate--piece of cake for TOS. And if the writers have the nerve they finally have Uhura take command and lead the resuce party. Bonus.
"More Tribbles, More Troubles" - Given Roddensberry's less than enthusiastic view of the original tribbles episode it's questionable whether this story would be green lighted, particularly since it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'd be okay with that since I think this is one of TAS' weaker efforts. The only novelty here is the glommer and maybe they could have re-imagined it.
"The Survivor" - Shape changing beings were nothing new to TOS, but the Vendorian would have to be completely rethought. Otherwise this is mostly a straight forward bottle show even with some Romulans.
"The Infinite Vulcan" - There is a lot to like in this story, but sadly some of it would have to be really rethought. The Phylosians as we know them now would have been impossible. Ditto with the flying plant creatures. The upside is it's likely they wouldn't have a 50 ft. Spock and Keniclius.
"The Magicks Of Megas-Tu" - This looks like it would be a fx heavy story. Depicting Lucius as a half man half goat being would be scratched. Othwerwise this might be a thoroughly doable story.
"Once Upon A Planet" - Like with tribbles it's questionable whether this story would be accepted as it doesn't bring much new to the original story. Some of the planet's creations would definitely have to be reconsidered.
"Mudd's Passion" - Bringing back Roger C. Carmel as Harry Mudd might have been possible. If this story was grenn lighted they would just reuse their existing shuttlecraft miniature and mockup. The exotic aliens and dinosaur sized creatures would likely have to be rethought. The real issue with this is, like other TAS followup stories, it doesn't bring much of anything new to what was done before except for the visuals. Still, it might be possible to completey rewrite the story such that it would be quite different than the one we're now familiar with.
"The Terratin Incident" - Succinctly I think this would have been simply too fx intensive to be done as live-action back in the day.
"The Time Trap" - A matte painting might suffice to depict a graveyard of alien ships, but a council of exotic looking aliens could be a challenge. That said to a large extent this is very much a bottle show so it might have been quite doable.
"The Ambergris Element" - This isn't Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea so I cannot see how this could have been done. If they managed it we would have had a very different looking aquashuttle as designed by Matt Jefferies. I think this story would have to be thoroughly reimagined to make it possible otherwise it wouldn’t happen.
"The Slaver Weapon" - The Copernicus would have most likely been a reuse of the existing Class F shuttlecraft. The Kzinti would have to be completely rethought. And one wonders if they would have gone ahead with a story where Spock, Uhura and Sulu are the only regulars featured. Of course, with some rewriting, Kirk and the rest could have been seen off somewhere doing something else and wondering why the Copenicus is overdue.
"The Eye Of The Beholder" - In general this is really a retelling of "The Cage" and "The Gamesters Of Triskelion" with the exotic Lactrans substituting for Talosians. The great similarities in concept might possibly eliminate the story from consideration. Also the Lactrans could never have been done as is.
"The Jihad" - An awesome story burdened by too many exotic aliens, and a flying one on top of that. Then there is the depiction of rapidly changing landscapes. This could be seen as a fx nightmare blowing an unimaginable hole in the budget. It would have to be completey rewritten to work as live-action.
"The Pirates Of Orion" - I think this would have been quite doable. Orions were really just green skinned humanoids with black hair as depicted in TOS. Except for a couple of miniatures for the freighter Huron and the Orion pirate ship this was largely a bottle show.
"Bem" - No way this could have been done as is. They would have had to completely rethink it just as they did several years later when they did essentially the same story in TNG's "Justice."
"The Practical Joker" - A very silly story, even if it has Romulans, but doable as being mostly a bottle show. The one novelty would be seeing a TOS era holographic rec room.
"Albatross" - This is a decent story, but once again the overly exotic aliens would have to be go. In some respects it's similar to "The Cloud Minders" so it's reasonably possible this could have been produced.
"How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth" - This is a more elaborate retelling of "Who Mourns For Adonais?" so it's questionable whether they would bother with it.
"The Counter-Clock Incident" - Getting the entire cast to de-age would be quite a challenge. Then there is the idea of time flowing backwards for viewers to wrap their head around. But candidly, other than introducing us to Robert T. April I don't see the point of doing this.
Of these twenty-two stories I could see easily nine of them being passed on as either too expensive and/or impossible to do or not worth doing simply because the stories are too similar to what was done before.
This might be an avenue worth exploring. To a limited extent I already have in re-imagining the old starship Bonaventure. In some respects it could be liberating because we would no longer be tied to trying to rationalize things after the fact. Instead we would be starting with a clean sheet trying to imagine what Matt Jefferies and the TOS production staff could come up with based solely on what they knew and what resources could be drawn upon in 1969-70.
The one conceit (other than a speculative fourth season for TOS) is assuming the TAS stories could have been pitched pretty much as they were only a few years sooner. It's at that point many of the ideas and elements we are familiar with would be drastically changed to work as live-action.
"Beyond The Farthest Star" - The feasibility of constructing a version of the alien pod ship was discussed early near the beginning of this thread. Even given the resources of the day I think it is still quite possible this ship could have been done very closely resembling what we saw in TAS. That said it's quite possible the ancient alien ship could have looked quite different if the ship's description had been vague or undefined when the story was pitched. It could be interesting to explore what else might have been possible.
I suspect the whole walking-on-the-alien-hull sequence would have been ditched even with the existing TOS EVA suits or even life-support belts. Matte paintings and one or two key sets might have sufficed to depict the interior of the alien ship. A disembodied voice and green light representing the alien entity would have been old hat for the TOS production crew.
"Yesteryear" - A live-action version of this filmed back in the day would have meant dropping the exotic life forms such as the lematye, the avian Aurelian historian and maybe even Spock's pet sehlat I'Chaya. The view of the city Shikahr could have been accomplished with a matte painting. It's possible some Paramount backlot could have sufficed somehow for scenes outside Sarek and Amanda's home. It might also have been possible to ressurect the Guardian of Forever set. And finally the Andorian Commander Thelin should have posed no problems. And one can only hope that Mark Lenard and Jane Wyatt were available to reprise their roles albeit made to look younger than they had appeared earlier in "Journey To Babel."
"One Of Our Planets Is Missing" - The quintessential bottle show there is really little reason whatsoever this story couldn't have been done live-action. The only fx requirement would be to depict a large space borne cloud creature and TOS had already done something like that in "Obsession." The one challenge could be showing the Enterprise passing through the creature's interior and they might have found a clever way to do it given it isn't too dissimilar to what was done in "The Immunity Syndrome."
"The Lorelei Signal" - Beautiful Amazonian like women and male crew members zoning out and aging at an accelerated rate--piece of cake for TOS. And if the writers have the nerve they finally have Uhura take command and lead the resuce party. Bonus.
"More Tribbles, More Troubles" - Given Roddensberry's less than enthusiastic view of the original tribbles episode it's questionable whether this story would be green lighted, particularly since it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'd be okay with that since I think this is one of TAS' weaker efforts. The only novelty here is the glommer and maybe they could have re-imagined it.
"The Survivor" - Shape changing beings were nothing new to TOS, but the Vendorian would have to be completely rethought. Otherwise this is mostly a straight forward bottle show even with some Romulans.
"The Infinite Vulcan" - There is a lot to like in this story, but sadly some of it would have to be really rethought. The Phylosians as we know them now would have been impossible. Ditto with the flying plant creatures. The upside is it's likely they wouldn't have a 50 ft. Spock and Keniclius.
"The Magicks Of Megas-Tu" - This looks like it would be a fx heavy story. Depicting Lucius as a half man half goat being would be scratched. Othwerwise this might be a thoroughly doable story.
"Once Upon A Planet" - Like with tribbles it's questionable whether this story would be accepted as it doesn't bring much new to the original story. Some of the planet's creations would definitely have to be reconsidered.
"Mudd's Passion" - Bringing back Roger C. Carmel as Harry Mudd might have been possible. If this story was grenn lighted they would just reuse their existing shuttlecraft miniature and mockup. The exotic aliens and dinosaur sized creatures would likely have to be rethought. The real issue with this is, like other TAS followup stories, it doesn't bring much of anything new to what was done before except for the visuals. Still, it might be possible to completey rewrite the story such that it would be quite different than the one we're now familiar with.
"The Terratin Incident" - Succinctly I think this would have been simply too fx intensive to be done as live-action back in the day.
"The Time Trap" - A matte painting might suffice to depict a graveyard of alien ships, but a council of exotic looking aliens could be a challenge. That said to a large extent this is very much a bottle show so it might have been quite doable.
"The Ambergris Element" - This isn't Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea so I cannot see how this could have been done. If they managed it we would have had a very different looking aquashuttle as designed by Matt Jefferies. I think this story would have to be thoroughly reimagined to make it possible otherwise it wouldn’t happen.
"The Slaver Weapon" - The Copernicus would have most likely been a reuse of the existing Class F shuttlecraft. The Kzinti would have to be completely rethought. And one wonders if they would have gone ahead with a story where Spock, Uhura and Sulu are the only regulars featured. Of course, with some rewriting, Kirk and the rest could have been seen off somewhere doing something else and wondering why the Copenicus is overdue.
"The Eye Of The Beholder" - In general this is really a retelling of "The Cage" and "The Gamesters Of Triskelion" with the exotic Lactrans substituting for Talosians. The great similarities in concept might possibly eliminate the story from consideration. Also the Lactrans could never have been done as is.
"The Jihad" - An awesome story burdened by too many exotic aliens, and a flying one on top of that. Then there is the depiction of rapidly changing landscapes. This could be seen as a fx nightmare blowing an unimaginable hole in the budget. It would have to be completey rewritten to work as live-action.
"The Pirates Of Orion" - I think this would have been quite doable. Orions were really just green skinned humanoids with black hair as depicted in TOS. Except for a couple of miniatures for the freighter Huron and the Orion pirate ship this was largely a bottle show.
"Bem" - No way this could have been done as is. They would have had to completely rethink it just as they did several years later when they did essentially the same story in TNG's "Justice."
"The Practical Joker" - A very silly story, even if it has Romulans, but doable as being mostly a bottle show. The one novelty would be seeing a TOS era holographic rec room.
"Albatross" - This is a decent story, but once again the overly exotic aliens would have to be go. In some respects it's similar to "The Cloud Minders" so it's reasonably possible this could have been produced.
"How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth" - This is a more elaborate retelling of "Who Mourns For Adonais?" so it's questionable whether they would bother with it.
"The Counter-Clock Incident" - Getting the entire cast to de-age would be quite a challenge. Then there is the idea of time flowing backwards for viewers to wrap their head around. But candidly, other than introducing us to Robert T. April I don't see the point of doing this.
Of these twenty-two stories I could see easily nine of them being passed on as either too expensive and/or impossible to do or not worth doing simply because the stories are too similar to what was done before.
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If onlies. If they never used Filmation's nearly animation.
I like TAS for the try and it did have some good stories. But it suffered from three great faults. The dialog was largely phoned in, literally, wrecking timing. Filmation's cheap-cheap animation, and the half hour format.
Yes. many of the scripts where cut down bought but never used for the canceled 4th season. The same as the never produced Phase Two scripts that got into TNG.
Some as you point out are impratical if done live action. Art has some real advantages in the FX budget.
Well Lower Decks is giving it another go with a better budget and much better tools.
I like TAS for the try and it did have some good stories. But it suffered from three great faults. The dialog was largely phoned in, literally, wrecking timing. Filmation's cheap-cheap animation, and the half hour format.
Yes. many of the scripts where cut down bought but never used for the canceled 4th season. The same as the never produced Phase Two scripts that got into TNG.
Some as you point out are impratical if done live action. Art has some real advantages in the FX budget.
Well Lower Decks is giving it another go with a better budget and much better tools.
Such a goofy amalgam of shapes, but I really do like it. It fits the universe. Well done!
I know what you mean. Back in the days of the DC Comics Trek series, they would occasionally have background ships that looked really randomly drawn and... "pointy"... for a lack of a better word. They had the occasional spires and other odd details to make it look interesting from a distance, but not very Starfleet. There was a thread a long time ago, IIRC, that talked about comic-originating starship designs. Some of them were really cool to look at. Others... not so much.
What model that Chang built? EDIT: Oh you mean this...
I can't imagine what that would have been for having looked through the VFX sheets for the various episodes.
This is a common misconception. We've been through the Roddenberry and Justman papers and there were no scripts or story outlines bought for the 4th season. There were a few story proposals submitted for the 2nd and 3rd season that eventually got done as Star Trek Animated episodes, specifically Gerrold's "More Flat Cat Copying" and "BEM".
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I think it's the catfish whiskers that really put it over the top.
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