I've just said that I have NO problem with it, straight, gay, or otherwise. What is it that I am not making clear here?
MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"
- Thread starter nafeasonto
- Start date
I've just said that I have NO problem with it, straight, gay, or otherwise. What is it that I am not making clear here?
The character Adira, said they have "never felt like a She or a Her" - so I see no massive need to distinguish between biology, phsiology, or gender identity really.
So why are official (but strictly speaking not exactly canonical) class designations used in the side bar and main text:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Nog
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Europa
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Voyager_(NCC-74656-J)
Just to list a few.
Because you kept saying shit like “you don’t want it shoved down your throat”. That has a very clear meaning and LGBTQ people and anyone who supports them has seen it for years. It’s saying that you’re fine with LGBTQ people as long as they stay out of your way and you aren’t reminded they exist in any way. At times it becomes an implied threat.
You can’t use that phrase and then play innocent.
You can remove Voyager-J from that list, you can see the class name for it on a computer screen in one episode.
The others still stand though. As do most ship classes in the franchise.
If you'd like to engage with me. I'd suggest you back off on the confrontation. Respect me and I'll respect you in turn.
I'm not skirting around anything, and please don't make assumptions. Our rule of thumb until now has always been "if it looks like a duck...", and remember our canon policy only allows what we see or hear onscreen, or in some cases, from scripts. Going by that, Adira is female. Because of interviews, etc. I know that's not the case, so as soon as they corrected Stamets on-screen, Adira's gender was changed from "Female" to "Non-binary" in the sidebar, and all pronouns in the article were changed from she/her/hers to they/them/theirs. What about that isn't clear? What about that is problematic? The changes to the page were made solely in line with our stated policies, including our canon policy, our resource policy, and our spoiler policy. You're free to read that policy page for more information, but in short, it doesn't allow us to add anything to an article until we see or hear it on-screen, even if it's been seen or heard in a trailer, interview, etc.
What about starship classes? A vast majority of the names were never said or seen on screen.
Please contact me via email or IM/DM for more info on that.
Just because I excel in your language doesn't mean that I am acquainted with every aspect of your culture. You must remember that there are other countries in the world than your own and that all your internal fights are not necessarily known there in their every detail.
I am innocent. The only thing I am guilty of is speaking candidly in the middle of rampant paranoia.
You seem to be taking for granted that I know every nuance of your idiom... Do you even know a second language? Do you know what it's like?
BTW, I didn't keep saying that. I said it ONCE!!!
And I *do* understand that. Until that edit was made, Adira's gender showed as "Non-binary", as it had since the correction to Stamets on-screen. The edit to add "Female (physiology)" was made by a brand new editor, not a regular or an admin. Keep in mind, MA is a wiki, freely editable by anyone (for the most part). I personally didn't even know about that edit until everything blew up in social media, and then I had to read a bunch of stuff here, on Twitter, on Reddit, and on MA just to catch up. It wasn't a matter of being allowed, or encouraged, or anything like that. Someone (new) made an edit to a page... simple.
But that's not what the admin post on the talk page that survives says. It still maintains "this has not been confirmed as such from an in-universe standard" and that the Encyclopedia was right not to refer to them as non binary. Are you now saying that the admins think that is wrong?
Believe me, those were debated as well. The long and the short of it is that it was finally determined that they were from what was considered acceptable production sources for naming articles. One an article has a name, the names go into sidebars and such. If it wasn't for the background source, USS Nog would still be "USS Nog type" for the class, which is better than "Unknown class", but not perfect. But again, this *only* has to do with article names.
I'll send you dm later.
Assuming I'm reading the revision page correctly, It was Gvsualan who kept the "Female (physiology)" on Adira's page after other another user changed it. And they are a Mod. Even tho its not canon or mentioned anywhere else in the slightest.
Many (most?) classes come from on-screen resources such as dedication plaques, display graphics, dialogue, etc., or by observing on-screen similarities to a ship that *has* been positively identified. Some are from production resources, and are used in line with the resource policy.
Not true. See my earlier post. If we can't positively identify a class via our resource policy rules, then it become "XXXX type", where XXXX is the name of the first ship seen with the given characteristics.
No, I'm saying what Sulfur posted is not the whole story. His post would be many times longer if it had all the pertinent information in it, and as it is, it's already tl;dr. That's one of the reasons I'm here answering questions: to elaborate, and provide more info than what's already been posted.
The fact that Adira is non-binary *hasn't* been confirmed in-universe, or in any other resource that our policy currently allows, so he's correct in saying that. What's unsaid is that we've bent the rules a bit to have "Non-binary" in the sidebar, which is what it was as soon as the episode in which Adira corrected Stamets' pronouns, and which is is once again. Once it's confirmed *somewhere* in a resource that MA considers acceptable, non-binary will be added to the text as well (i.e. "Adira Tal was a non-binary Human who...").
Did you consider it confirmed in canon that they were female prior to the episode Sanctuary airing? If so, what canonical elements were present then which are not present now, and if not, we're back to @dahj 's question about why male and female are included in thousands of entries on the site if the policy is to wait for explicit confirmation of gender.
Edit: also, what does MA consider their gender to canonically be?
Edit: also, what does MA consider their gender to canonically be?
I have read the post in question multiple times. There is no attack in it and it's not a disrespectful post either.
@dahj was asking a legitimate question that you apparently did not like. That does not make that question disrespectful.
I beg to differ.
1. You can't tell gender by looking at somebody. Do we still need to explain that in 2021?
2. "If it looks like a duck..." refers to species. I don't mind if you assume somebody's species on MA. Gender is different.
3. Going by what you see or hear on screen, you can't assume Adira is female. It's never stated that Adira is female. And as I said: You cannot tell gender by looking at somebody.
Yep, you're entirely correct. Gvsualan reverted and locked the page to stop an edit war and move the discussion to the talk page. He made a mistake (he freely admits doing so) and reverted to an incorrect version; he *should've* reverted back to *before* the edit war began, i.e. to where the sidebar read "Gender: Non-binary". That sidebar *never* should've had the "Female (physiology)" in the text. Also, as an aside, we were also notified by Fandom staff that the user that made that edit (Will74205) a) is on the autism spectrum, and b) has been a problem on other Fandom wikis. He, apparently, tends to see everything in black and white.