Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"

[jackoverfull]

The worst things is that the regulators were just doing their job and didn’t kill anyone...in fact, unless I’m forgetting someone, Osyraa is the only one to kill a person in these 3 episodes, the Andorian. Then comes Michael and kills hundreds for no reason.

Only good side is that they remembered that beaming out a boarding party should be possible, something often forgot on other series.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I’ve seen three seasons and discovered how Detmer and Owo are called just this year. The others I wouldn’t even recognize.

OBrien didn't get a surname until episode 32 of TNG and first name wasn't until episode 75.

 

[jackoverfull]

OBrien didn't get a surname until episode 32 of TNG and first name wasn't until episode 75.

o’brian was not in every single episode.

 

[USS Fardell]

That Hope is You Part 2
The final episode of the third season. The Discovery crew fight to take back the ship, and in the Nebula, Saru and the others try to get through to Su'Kal. There was a lot in the episode, as it had tie up the plot threads in this season. Was it overstuffed. I don't think so. Taking back Discovery from Osyraa wasn't that involved, although all of the crew was involved. The set up of Burnham calling Ni'var from the previous episode did pay off, and Voyager J was involved in the chase (but we didn't see their crew).
The way the crew went about it, after some fight scenes, was good. Disrupting the connection to one of the nacelles to drop the ship out of warp, was a good idea. There was a great deal of tension as Owosekun went about her task. I thought she wouldn't make it, so the last minute save by the Zorabot was a surprise. Not sure why there would be the turbolift space would be like a holodeck (a better explanation than TARDIS-like technology, the Future Tense pod most likely belonged to a non-Federation faction) but the battle within it worked.
Osyraa's death is a little anticlimatic though. Sure Burnham had to struggle against her, but I had expected there would be more to it. Back to the nebula. Grey appearing to Culbur and Saru was a surprise. (How does that work? Like, did Joran appear in a similar way when Ezri called him up in Field of Fire?) But it does work. Grey checking what the outside of the holographic environment is like was a good moment. But the main part of this plotline was Su'Kal confronting his fears, and in so doing, ending the program before the ship fell apart.
I'm not sure replaying the moment of the Burn would have been a good idea. (Risks a repeat for a start.) The moment of rescue was very good. The end sequence was a good way to close out the season. Great bookend with Sahil reappearing. Saru going to Kaminar with Su'Kal was a good choice too. Burnham as Captain? It's a good idea, but I'll have to wait and see how it goes next season. Discovery helping to deliver the dilithium from that planet to various worlds, both in and out of the Federation, seems like a good idea.
“Let's fly” is a good catch phrase. Overall it is a good conclusion to this season. It leaves things open for a new start in the next season. 8.5/10.

 

[Discofan]

o’brian was not in every single episode.

But he got important speaking parts, like in "Power Play" for example.

 

[Llywela]

Like I said, I'm a fairly casual viewer and I've still managed to learn all the character names, even the minor supporting cast. Anyone who comes here to post about every episode but doesn't know the characters' names really isn't trying. It isn't hard.

 

[SJGardner]

The worst things is that the regulators were just doing their job and didn’t kill anyone...in fact, unless I’m forgetting someone, Osyraa is the only one to kill a person in these 3 episodes, the Andorian. Then comes Michael and kills hundreds for no reason.

Only good side is that they remembered that beaming out a boarding party should be possible, something often forgot on other series.

Their job was literally to be a hostile occupying military force though. They were all armed, captured the ship and had already engaged in combat with the bridge crew during breakout attempts. In the military sense, they were hostiles and since the previous episode all but confirmed that Osyraa sent everyone but the bridge crew off the ship, they vastly outnumbered the Starfleet officers aboard. It would've made no sense trying to detain them in situ with the very limited manpower they had. How would've they guarded them, especially as I don't think their brig could even accommodate that many people?

 

[Paul Weaver]

From when OBrien got a name in Unnatural Selection, it was mentioned 18 times in dialog in the 14 episodes he was in before the end of season 2.

In TOS, Kyle was mentioned 17 times in 11 episodes.

Owo's first 14 episodes mentioned her name just 4 times (including twice in the same sentence).

 

[Llywela]

Her name was spoken on-screen. I would think that fans capable of memorising every minute detail of starship design no matter how obscure should be more than capable of remembering a supporting character's name once they've heard it once or twice. It really isn't hard.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I don't know about others but I'm terrible with faces and names. Started watching Modern Family last week, 5 episodes in and I have no idea what any of their names are.

 

[NX_01]

I wouldn't advise Su K'al going into dilithium mining.

But he is the ultimate weapon agsinst every dilithium powered vessel.
Jump in on spore drive, cry the the warp core to implosion, power up your core.

it´s called sukal maneuver

 

[Tuskin38]

follow how? The viridian didn’t have a spore drive.

They still had warp and the coordinates to the nebula.

 

[Timo]

But not the means to get there fast. Killing the Emerald folks would be done for the sake of killing them, i.e. stopping them from exploiting the dilithium planet either as a resource or as tinder for further Burns. It would not be relevant to the continuing survival of the heroes as such, not in the short or medium term.

Whether there is a defined purpose to them or there isn't, the footage before the explosion did show them being attached while at warp. The final shot of the episode also showed them becoming attached before the ship went to warp.

The question then goes, how do the nacelles of the future Starfleet ships attach for warp? It's not as if, say, the neo-Voyager would have been built for that. (And no, the Viridian does not pull herself together for warping!)

I guess our best bet is that the benefits of separate nacelles manifest at impulse, and separation makes no difference at warp. The hero ship might have the reattaching feature solely for the spore jumps, and using it at warp is just sorta incidental.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jackoverfull]

But he got important speaking parts, like in "Power Play" for example.

That was way after they decided they liked Colm enough to turn ihim from random extra two guest star. In fact it’s likely after they decided to make him main cast in the spinoff (but there were earlier episodes where he got quite some screen time, starting in late season 3 or so).

Like I said, I'm a fairly casual viewer and I've still managed to learn all the character names, even the minor supporting cast. Anyone who comes here to post about every episode but doesn't know the characters' names really isn't trying. It isn't hard.

no. I don’t remember the name of the blond woman that occasionally take command. Apart from Detmer and owo I wouldn’t be able to name or possibly recognize any of the others on the bridge, mostly because they were called by name very rarely and basically acted as living props for three years, not having much to do as characters. This would have been mostly true for Detmer and Owo until this season as well.

Their job was literally to be a hostile occupying military force though. They were all armed, captured the ship and had already engaged in combat with the bridge crew during breakout attempts. In the military sense, they were hostiles and since the previous episode all but confirmed that Osyraa sent everyone but the bridge crew off the ship, they vastly outnumbered the Starfleet officers aboard. It would've made no sense trying to detain them in situ with the very limited manpower they had. How would've they guarded them, especially as I don't think their brig could even accommodate that many people?

keep them in the buffer, then? Use the stunning gas that has been available since forever? I don’t think this warrants a death sentence with no due process.

They still had warp and the coordinates to the nebula.

but not inside it. And they had no leader at that point and likely didn’t know what was in the nebula anyway. And was one ship against two fleets.

 

[Timo]

It's nicely consistent, though: Burnham is all about killing. It's her Vulcan upbringing, making her consider killing the logical thing to do, and mass murder a mere step up in efficiency. Heck, that's what the whole show is about, with the main character having a lirpa and thus seeing every problem as a neck to be sliced or a skull to be bashed in.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SJGardner]

keep them in the buffer, then? Use the stunning gas that has been available since forever? I don’t think this warrants a death sentence with no due process.

Why do you keep invoking the death sentence? They weren't civilians and this wasn't a hostage situation that would've warranted negotiations or civilian trials before a Federation court of law. Osyraa, in her capacity of as a member of the Emerald Chain's government, and with their approval, led a military force in an attack against a Federation military target. What she did was an act of war, plain and simple.

As for the other suggestions: why is it a problem now and why wasn't it a problem back then when the Enterprise, Deep Space Nine, Defiant or Voyager was boarded? Shouldn't Sisko have thought of these when Klingons were beaming in all over the station en masse? He could've just issued gas masks to his crew. Shouldn't Janeway have just placed all the Kazon, Borg, Hirogen etc. in the buffers and beam them down to a cozy class M planet first chance she got?

 

[jackoverfull]

Why do you keep invoking the death sentence? They weren't civilians and this wasn't a hostage situation that would've warranted negotiations or civilian trials before a Federation court of law. Osyraa, in her capacity of as a member of the Emerald Chain's government, and with their approval, led a military force in an attack against a Federation military target. What she did was an act of war, plain and simple.

Because that there were straightforward ways to neutralise them without killing the boarding party AND everyone on the other ship needlessly.
But, as Timo says, it's consistent with Burnham's character: she kills very easily.

As for the other suggestions: why is it a problem now and why wasn't it a problem back then when the Enterprise, Deep Space Nine, Defiant or Voyager was boarded? Shouldn't Sisko have thought of these when Klingons were beaming in all over the station en masse?

Oh, right, the usual "something wasn't ok in the past, so it's fine now".

 

[PiotrB]

why is it a problem now

Burnham is captain so new allegations have to be invented for season four because many of the old ones have become outdated. So far we have one already invented in season two and two in season three:

• Burnham whispers
• Burnham is crying
• Burnham is all about killing

 

[jackoverfull]

Burnham is captain so new allegations have to be invented for season four because many of the old ones have become outdated. So far we have one already invented in season two and two in season three:

• Burnham whispers
• Burnham is crying
• Burnham is all about killing

Allegations? The first two happens a lot, the second is your own wording, but killing sure tends to happen a lot as well.

 

[SJGardner]

Oh, right, the usual "something wasn't ok in the past, so it's fine now".

No, it's my failing to understand why Burnham is the only military officer in the entirety of Star Trek who gets called out and painted a mass murderer for deciding to retaliate with force in a literal combat situation against armed hostiles.

EDIT: And yes, this will get called out as the same thing as the quote, but do people also have a problem with Picard, Sisko or Janeway deliberately blowing up hostile alien vessels? Those birds-of-prey and Galors have engineers on them whose only job is to keep those ships running, after all.