MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

[Sci]

A hopefully-interesting digression: The transphobia and enbyphobia of certain Star Trek fans is ironic because Star Trek: Deep Space Nine rather accidentally, without much recognition, seems to have established that it's incredibly easy and common for people to change their sex and gender by the 24th Century. For all its offensiveness -- and I don't want to defend this episode, because it is offensive -- "Profit and Lace" however also made it very clear that Quark was able to change biological sex and gender presentation back and forth with what seemed a very convenient medical procedure.

Canonically, therefore, it is entirely plausible that the Federation is full of transgender people, and that the process of transitioning is just so routine that it's taken for granted and not remarked upon -- it's just normal and accepted that transgender people are everywhere

 

[Awesome Possum]

A hopefully-interesting digression: The transphobia and enbyphobia of certain Star Trek fans is ironic because Star Trek: Deep Space Nine rather accidentally, without much recognition, seems to have established that it's incredibly easy and common for people to change their sex and gender by the 24th Century. For all its offensiveness -- and I don't want to defend this episode, because it is offensive -- "Profit and Lace" however also made it very clear that Quark was able to change biological sex and gender presentation back and forth with what seemed a very convenient medical procedure.

Canonically, therefore, it is entirely plausible that the Federation is full of transgender people, and that the process of transitioning is just so routine that it's taken for granted and not remarked upon -- it's just normal and accepted that transgender people are everywhere

There's more to being trans than surgeries however convenient, that's something the individual trans person decides on and not a given as if it's part of a standard process. Given the future the Federation shows it's far more likely that not only do trans people exist and are accepted without question, but that surgeries aren't necessary for that acceptance. That's something happening now and should a given by then.

I should note that Trek should avoid that because it's just a justification to only hire cis actors to play trans characters. Thankfully they haven't done that because it's an awful way to do representation, it's like calling a white actor in black face representation of black people. Having trans people or gay people or people of any race is for the people being represented, not for the majority of fans. It shows that they have a place in the future, something that in the past have inspired many to achieve what they once thought impossible. Taking that away from them is like taking away Uhura or Sulu from TOS and everything they represented.

 

[Sci]

There's more to being trans than surgeries however convenient, that's something the individual trans person decides on and not a given as if it's part of a standard process. Given the future the Federation shows it's far more likely that not only do trans people exist and are accepted without question, but that surgeries aren't necessary for that acceptance. That's something happening now and should a given by then.

That is a very good point, and thank you for correcting me.

I should note that Trek should avoid that because it's just a justification to only hire cis actors to play trans characters.

This didn't even occur to me. Thank you for pointing this out as well. Clearly I still have a few things to learn; I apologize if my ignorance was offensive.

 

[mdtauk]

Gvsualan really seems to have an issue with this, but at least he has begrudgingly left the Gender in place.

One Ironic thing he talks about is "female" "erasure" - which is a common TERF argument. But he was responsible for removing gender from all articles right?

Thank you once again @Tim Thomason

 

[Reverend]

I think a more profound thing DS9 did (also probably by accident) is show how easy it is for even a drunk old man to effortlessly affirm a transitioned person's new name and pronouns.

 

[Hythlodeus]

One Ironic thing he talks about is "female" "erasure"

fuck this guy

 

[DEWLine]

I think a more profound thing DS9 did (also probably by accident) is show how easy it is for even a drunk old man to effortlessly affirm a transitioned person's new name and pronouns.

Looking back, that was an underappreciated moment. Not so unappreciated now, I think.

 

[mdtauk]

All those underappreciated moments, must have meant a great deal to those who were craving the recognition and representation that was lacking.

With so many personal stories of how much Dax meant to certain groups, which was almost accidental - that small scene where Adira asks for appropriate pronouns, means soo much more than you may think, if you are Straight, or Cisgendered.

 

[Dryson]

Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place, but female and male genitals perform the same process, regardless of the species.

Gender is the persons functioning reproduction system that they are born with and has been proven by science to be 100% correct.

Sexual orientation is the gender that you choose that most satisfies a sexual need or urge which science has once again proven to be 100% correct.

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[Tuskin38]

Gender is the persons functioning reproduction system that they are born with and has been proven by science to be 100% correct.

You're thinking of biological sex.

The WHO has an article on Gender, it's a social construct not biological.
https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.

Gender interacts with but is different from sex, which refers to the different biological and physiological characteristics of females, males and intersex persons, such as chromosomes, hormones and reproductive organs. Gender and sex are related to but different from gender identity. Gender identity refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond to the person’s physiology or designated sex at birth.

 

[Discofan]

That's deplorable. Bigotry always is.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place, but female and male genitals perform the same process, regardless of the species.

Gender is the persons functioning reproduction system that they are born with and has been proven by science to be 100% correct.

Sexual orientation is the gender that you choose that most satisfies a sexual need or urge which science has once again proven to be 100% correct.

Best of luck with this...

 

[XCV330]

I think you're stretching here TBH. I doubt Paramount are going to be taking legal action against Memory Alpha. Fan films producing new output with licenced properties and characters is something entirely different.

I know of at least one large (200million plus accounts+) MMORPG that ran into multiple issues from the owners of wikia itself until it had to finally create and host its own wiki (though the wikia version is still out there, messing up search results to this day, as assholes continue to update it)

CBS/Paramount could do the same. Still allow it to function as a wiki but have overall authority over the content. Advantage would be they'd have their own advertising stream, as well.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

it's going to come down to who's the most stubborn and obstinate.

CaptainMike from Memory Beta sure fits that bill...

(Although there's someone on the Law & Order wiki who's almost as bad. Name's "Season Fourteen".)

 

[mdtauk]

From my understanding of Gender... (Speaking as a Cisgender Man)

Not all biologically born Men display masculine traits, nor feel masculine. Not all biologically born women feel feminine or look and act feminine. Some people are born with non-typical sexual organs either.

Gender is something society perpetuates, and because there are stereotypical traits associated at the feminine end or the masculine end of the Gender Spectrum - where people feel they fall on that spectrum, will play a big part in what Gender they associate to themselves.

Non-Binary is usually someone who feel like they do not fit one side or the other - and there are other terms people will use, such as Androgynous.

People who feel a need to Transition from their "biological" or "assigned" gender - to the one they feel reflects their personality, soul, desires etc - can be very overwhelming due to a dysphoria that affects their lives so profoundly. More and more people are feeling more confident to take that brave step, and correct society and what it forces upon them, so seeing others be respected, and acknowledge, can save them from mental anguish, and even suicidal thoughts.

----

Now on to Sexual Orientation (Speaking as a Demisexual Gay Man)

Sexual Orientation is not just about whether you are attracted to masculine or feminine appearance and personalities - there is also what degree of sexual attraction you have to any gender - and what circumstances allow sexual or romantic attraction to form.

Not everyone experiences an attraction to people, either by looking at their appearance, or their personality. These would fit the Asexual spectrum. You can be romantically interested in a gender or multiple genders, but have no interest in sex at all.

I myself, am Demisexual, which means I do not experience physical attraction to anyone without an emotional connection. So I have a boyfriend and only feel sexual desire when with them.

It is also common to find "Straight" men who are attracted to, or have a sexual desire for Trans Women. Because of the appeal of femininity or their outward appearance. And what is between their legs is less important.

----

All of this nuance and complication and we are only talking about humans here. Who is to say other societies, other planets, and other races - don't have their own societal constructs, and biological realities.

To anyone who is not Cisgendered, Allosexual, or Heterosexual - please correct me if my understanding is in error - I feel very self conscious speaking about things I have not experienced myself, and I want to be an ally to as many people as I can

 

[Tuskin38]

This guy isn't an admin but I still thought it was relevant.

 

[Reverend]

^Yeah, anyone that uses the term "SJW" with a straight face clearly isn't playing with a full deck.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place, but female and male genitals perform the same process, regardless of the species.

Gender is the persons functioning reproduction system that they are born with and has been proven by science to be 100% correct.

Sexual orientation is the gender that you choose that most satisfies a sexual need or urge which science has once again proven to be 100% correct.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Warning for trolling. Comments to PM.

 

[Court_Vince]

This guy isn't an admin but I still thought it was relevant.

Yep. This person is nonbinary and commented on it, As well as this person, And this user, You get the idea
Short in short, yes Nonbinary trekkies do care abt this.

 

[Quinton]

Absolutely disheartening to see this. I'm glad Rapp and Cruz got involved.