Spoilers The Mandalorian season 2 discussion

[Reverend]

Vanity Fair interview with Dave filoni and Rosario Dawson. I assume it's fascinating and filled with interesting tidbits, however, I've reached my limit of free articles for the month at Vanity Fair so, I can't read it.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...WrKPviofFIAiwR85bWj7NhxRWwXUzo81tw5v_vlKH-ytg

Tell you what then, here's my cliffnotes version: -

• The casting of Rosario was a direct result of the fans, though not solely. Dave felt she just fit the role.
• The decision was made right before the first season dropped, and they had a bunch of concept art already done with Rosario's face as Ahsoka when they called her about the role.

"I actually was glad because I had really bad reception, and so I ended up just going to the audio. So I was pacing and jumping up and down, trying to keep really cool in my voice, but I was freaking out. I mean, this is real Star Wars—the font, the look, the art, the everything, and my face in there. I just, I couldn’t. I was beside myself, and they were asking, “Do you want to do this? I mean, we appreciate if it’s not something you want to do.” And I was like, “Oh, no, no, that would be cool, actually. I think we could maybe work this out.” Trying to play it cool, but I was sweating."

• Turns out, Rosario went to acting school with Hayden Christensen in the same class and the two had been in a movie together ('Shattered Glass'), so it was almost fate...also a little trippy since that movie is about a magazine called "The New Republic".
• She also already knew some of Grogu's puppeteers from working on 'MIB II' and the worm guys.
• Inosanto and Biehn both brought a lot of experience to their roles. Biehn was very detail oriented going so far as to plot out how many shots his weapon had influencing how his character would deal with Dyn from a philosophical POV. Inosanto's presence lent credibility to the Magistrate being able to go toe-to-toe with Ahsoka.
  
• They iterated on Ahsoka's look a LOT. Getting the make-up right for the different light temperatures (apparently the volume tends to skew towards purple), making the face markings look natural and not painted on, and of course getting the headpiece to the size it needed to be for practical purposes. The final result was VERY securely attached for the stunt scenes.
• Filloni considered keeping Dawson's natural eye colour, but she was eager to try the contacts.

"Doing the face marking, doing my skin, wearing the costume, all of that was absolutely incredible. But I still kind of felt like I was in cosplay. The second the contacts went in, it was Ahsoka. I felt like I disappeared."

• Turns out, Rosario was in full make-up and costume, just out of frame when this photo was taken.
• Filloni talks about about Ahsoka's progression from a brash teen into the "Gandalf stage" she's at, or at least nearly at now.

"Yeah, I think something fans like about the character is that she’s rather complex. They all focus very hard on the line, “I am no Jedi,” from Star Wars: Rebels, but it’s undeniable that she’s trained by the Jedi. I think to most observers she is very Jedi to them. I would argue in some ways—by being so selfless and rejecting a lot of paths that would have given her power—she’s more Jedi-like than even some characters who claim to be Jedi."

• Rosario on Ashley: -

"Ashley did a remarkable job. You’ve seen this character first come into our hearts and minds as a teenager and then evolve, and Ashley has been there the entire way. Seeing how her voice changed, how her energy changed, and to hear the maturity develop in her was just so powerful and so beautiful. I studied it like crazy and tried my best to honor that. And it was just incredible to be able to have such an in-depth performance to source."

​

• I'll just paste the entirety of the response to the lawsuit controversy here so it can speak for itself:-

Spoiler

"Ahsoka does mean a great deal to people, and they’re deeply invested in who she is. So, Rosario, I want to ask you about something that’s outside of this story of The Mandalorian, and that’s the concern in the fandom about a lawsuit that was filed against you last year by a longtime family friend. The claim accused you and other family members of anti-trans bias, and you’ve called the lawsuit false and baseless. But what do you say to those Star Wars fans who hear this and believe the worst—that you are transphobic?

Dawson: Well, firstly, I just want to say I understand that, and why people were concerned, and are concerned. I would be too if I heard some of those claims. But I mean, as we’re seeing right now in these past months, and just recently, actually, the truth is coming out. Every single claim of discrimination has been dismissed by the person who made them, and as you’ve said, the fact that this is coming from someone I’ve known since I was a teenager, the better part of my life, and who my family was trying to help as we have many times in the past, it really just makes me sad. But I still have a great empathy for him.

Court records show 18 of the 20 claims were withdrawn voluntarily without a settlement, and his lawyer left the case. Two counts remain alleging a physical altercation, and a judge will rule on whether that can move forward next month. There are people that would say, “Well, this is just another example of a wealthy, famous person overpowering the system.” So what would you say to those people who are unconvinced, both about this case and about what you actually believe about trans people?


Dawson: The reason that all of the discrimination claims were dropped is because they didn’t happen. I was raised in a very inclusive and loving way, and that’s how I’ve lived my entire life. I’ve always used my voice to fight for, lift up, and empower the LGBTQA community, and use my platform to channel trans voices, in fiction and nonfiction work that I’ve produced and directed. So I feel the record is really clear."

• The burnt forest setting was inspired by Dave's experiences living with the fire in northern California and being evacuated three years running.
• Grogu's name and backstory came from Jon during the production of season one, and it's just been a matter of finding the right way to convey that information to the audience. Once they decided to bring Ahsoka in, her own similar experiences made this the natural choice.
• The scene was a direct reference to the ANH scene where Obi-Wan explains (some of) Anakin's backstory. In both cases the audience learns as much about the teller as the subject through shared context.
• They've been careful to avoid using established Star Wars themes, precisely to give them weight and significance when they do show up, as was the case here with Yoda's theme.
• Filloni regarding the chronological placement of the Rebels coda: -

"Right. But no, it's an interesting one… That's not necessarily chronological. I think the thing that people will most not understand is they want to go in a linear fashion, but as I learned as a kid, nothing in Star Wars really works in a linear fashion. You do [Episodes] Four, Five and Six and then One, Two, and Three. So in the vein of that history, when you look at the epilogue of Rebels you don't really know how much time has passed. So, it's possible that the story I'm telling in The Mandalorian actually takes place prior to that. Possible. I'm saying it's possible."

The New Republic's stance of ultra-pacifism is just as unreasonable and unbalanced as the Empire's stance of ultra-militarism. I realize the NR was likely gun-shy about maintaining a standing fleet, but to let it diminish into nothingness was patently foolish.

It didn't though. It still had a formidable fleet that it kept defending the capital, and they probably could have met the First Order head on...but who the hell could have seen Starkiller coming?

Keeping the bulk of their forces in one place helps project a sense of security, but not one of fear. The fleet would come to the aid of any world if summoned, and leave when it was no longer needed. The liberators mustn't become occupiers.

 

[Booji]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but at around 15:30 you can see Morai sitting on a branch in the upper left part of the picture!

 

[Xerxes82]

Interestingly, I've seen it suggested on social media that the planet the Magistrate was from that was all but wiped out during the Clone Wars may have been Dathomir. She's clearly not a Nightsister, being the wrong species. But in the old EU there were other tribes on the planet (at least some of which were human, as Teneniel Djo, her daughter Tenel-Ka, and granddaughter Allana Solo can attest). Which might not only be kind of a cool backstory, which does fit what we know and might also justify her apparent loyalty to the Empire (she's obviously profiting handsomely, but hating the Separatists for scourging her world isn't outside the realm of possibility), but might also explain where she got the skills to go spear to blades with Ahsoka in the climax. Even if she wasn't a witch herself, she would have been trained to fight them, and those skills are applicable against Jedi as well.

Unnecessary, certainly, but kind of a neat idea.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I really don't see a witch of Dathomir stating a mining company in a fit of vengeance.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but at around 15:30 you can see Morai sitting on a branch in the upper left part of the picture!

Wow. I totally missed that. My subconscious probably just passed it off as a random bird. But she does turn her head for a second.

 

[Tuskin38]

Interestingly, I've seen it suggested on social media that the planet the Magistrate was from that was all but wiped out during the Clone Wars may have been Dathomir. She's clearly not a Nightsister, being the wrong species. But in the old EU there were other tribes on the planet (at least some of which were human, as Teneniel Djo, her daughter Tenel-Ka, and granddaughter Allana Solo can attest). Which might not only be kind of a cool backstory, which does fit what we know and might also justify her apparent loyalty to the Empire (she's obviously profiting handsomely, but hating the Separatists for scourging her world isn't outside the realm of possibility), but might also explain where she got the skills to go spear to blades with Ahsoka in the climax. Even if she wasn't a witch herself, she would have been trained to fight them, and those skills are applicable against Jedi as well.

Unnecessary, certainly, but kind of a neat idea.

It was a makeup artists IIRC that said that.

 

[Xerxes82]

It was a makeup artists IIRC that said that.

Is that where it started from? That's interesting in and of itself. Makes me curious about how much back story the people behind the show have considered for characters like these, who are kind of throw away, disposable villains. Even if none of it ends up used, or "official," it's neat to know that the people involved in the show kind of let their minds run with stuff the same way the fans do sometimes.

 

[Crazyewok]

It's an understandable decision given historical context. Mon Mothma lived through the Clone Wars and saw what happens when a Republic gives too much power to the military. More over the New Republic needed to prove to it's members and any potential hold outs that it wasn't going to just become another Empire. It would be foolish, naïve and arrogant to presume that won't happen "because we're the good guys!"
The galaxy had been at war and under military occupation for going on three decades. It needed to end.

Leia's position is also understandable in that the threat could out there and they couldn't afford to be so complacent.

Ideally there should have been more of a middle ground approach; galaxy-wide disarmament and force reduction leaving only a small naval force that would act as a significant deterrent to any would-be warlord, but not enough that it could be used to occupy or blockade, all while setting up a smaller, leaner trouble shooting task force to look for trouble in the border systems and deal with them before it gets out of hand.
Who knows, maybe in the early years that's just what happened, but over the *decades* they just got complacent. Such is the nature of politics and compromise; "why are we spending a third of the budget on Incom's new model fighters and yet more Starhawks when half the mid-rim is still on rationing?!". And to be fair: "a massive fleet and army of kidnapped children being built and trained in uncharted space led by a giant wizard in a gold dressing gown, who's really a puppet of the old resurrected Emperor" certainly sounds like some crazy, conspiracy theory bantha crap.

It's also worth baring in mind that in the thousands of years of history, there had probably NEVER been a mass invasion from outside of settled space. All of the various wars were expansionist small powers, coups and internal civil wars. Even the Sith take over and the fall of the Old Republic probably fell into that category.
The idea that a massive fleet would just pour out of the Unknown Regions would sound as outlandish as us being worried about an invasion from the moon...


No it would be like stepping down after the defeat of Germany and the Japanese surrender...we pretty much did. National service (and rationing, incidentally) went on for a bit to keep the numbers stable in the reconstruction period, but almost right after VJ day the was a mass demobbing of squaddies.
You can't maintain a military of that size indefinitely; our economy was already on it's knees, supply chains stretched beyond the breaking point, and we were already so financially in debt to the US that we'd spend the rest of the century paying it off. You think we dismantled the Empire and founded the Commonwealth in the 50's out of the kindness of our hearts? Fuck no. There was no choice. It was a case of disarm or die.

We didn't abolish the military obviously, but we reduced it to a level where we'd only have to worry about defending the UK, our slice of West Germany and a handful of overseas territories, as opposed to pre-war which was basically two thirds of the planet!

My example may be a bad one but so is yours.

The empire in nowhere near as defeated as Germany or Japan in WW2.

It still has thousands of ships left and some territory.

A better example would be the empire as North Korea. They have signed a armistice and have hunkered down into isolation but are still there and exist. And like how it would be stupid for south Korea to demilitarize while North Korea is still a batshit insane directorship, it would be stupid for the new republic to do the same. And it clearly was seeing as they got there pacifist arses handed to them in TFA.

 

[JD]

Interestingly, I've seen it suggested on social media that the planet the Magistrate was from that was all but wiped out during the Clone Wars may have been Dathomir. She's clearly not a Nightsister, being the wrong species. But in the old EU there were other tribes on the planet (at least some of which were human, as Teneniel Djo, her daughter Tenel-Ka, and granddaughter Allana Solo can attest). Which might not only be kind of a cool backstory, which does fit what we know and might also justify her apparent loyalty to the Empire (she's obviously profiting handsomely, but hating the Separatists for scourging her world isn't outside the realm of possibility), but might also explain where she got the skills to go spear to blades with Ahsoka in the climax. Even if she wasn't a witch herself, she would have been trained to fight them, and those skills are applicable against Jedi as well.

Unnecessary, certainly, but kind of a neat idea.

They were on Corvus, and the city was Caladan. In The Heiress Bo-Katan told Din to go to the city of Caladan on Corvus, and that was where they were in this one.
I double checked Wookiepedia, and it has it downs as a separate planet from Dathomir.
They spend a fair amount of time on Post-Nightsister Dathomir in Jedi: Fallen Order, and this looks nothing like that. According to the game there was only one Nightsister left alive

Spoiler: The Nightsister's fate

and she becomes good guy and joins the heroes' crew after they finish up on Dathomir.

.

 

[fireproof78]

My example may be a bad one but so is yours.

The empire in nowhere near as defeated as Germany or Japan in WW2.

It still has thousands of ships left and some territory.

A better example would be the empire as North Korea. They have signed a armistice and have hunkered down into isolation but are still there and exist. And like how it would be stupid for south Korea to demilitarize while North Korea is still a batshit insane directorship, it would be stupid for the new republic to do the same. And it clearly was seeing as they got there pacifist arses handed to them in TFA.

It felt more like the Treaty of Versailles after WW1 with Germany between the Empire and the New Republic. The New Republic was eager to put a militaristic stance behind them and move on. I mean it was stupid but reflective of their fears at the time.

Kind of like the "war to end all wars" attitude of WW1. Also, WW1 pilots would sometimes say wizard.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

If Grogu is 50 years old in human years then how old is he in Yoda years? One? Two?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Good question! I never quite figured out what a “year” is interstellar terms. Is it a Coroscant year, a Tatooine year, a Dagobah year? I’m assuming that there was, at one time, an agreement during the Old Republic that all worlds abided by, but neither Wars nor Trek really elaborated on it.

 

[cooleddie74]

One thing's for sure. Yoda's species matures rapidly between the ages of 50 and 100 because Grogu is still an infant at 50 but Yoda told Luke he had been training Jedi "for 800 years," meaning he was already a Master by the age of 100. In that half-century you mature from a baby to a Jedi Master training the next generation of your Order.

 

[Ithekro]

A Galactic Standard Year seems to be based on a Coruscant year. Probably because it was the Capital of the Republic for several millennia, and thus the center of galactic civilization.

Though defeating the Empire in just over a year after Endor is pretty quick. Yet a "year" seems to mess with the ages humans grow up, based on the like of Ezra and Luke and Leia.

 

[wayoung]

He acts like he's 2 or 3 but if he'd already been studying in the Jedi temple to the point he had learned how to control the force, and is advanced enough intellectually to have told Ahsoka that, and that's how he knows to use his force powers as much as he does, it seems like he had to be the equivalent of like 8-10 when he was rescued from the temple.

 

[Xerxes82]

They were on Corvus, and the city was Caladan. In The Heiress Bo-Katan told Din to go to the city of Caladan on Corvus, and that was where they were in this one.
I double checked Wookiepedia, and it has it downs as a separate planet from Dathomir.
They spend a fair amount of time on Post-Nightsister Dathomir in Jedi: Fallen Order, and this looks nothing like that. According to the game there was only one Nightsister left alive

Spoiler: The Nightsister's fate

and she becomes good guy and joins the heroes' crew after they finish up on Dathomir.

.

Wow, you even double checked Wookiepedia. Guess you showed me. Of course, I never said Corvus was Dathomir, or even suggested it was Dathomir. I am talking about an entirely different planet.

Planet she was from, not the planet this story took place on. Ahsoka explicitly, right there in the dialogue of the episode, told us that the Magistrate was from a planet whose people were destroyed by the Clone Wars. And then after the war, she took up an industry (mining, it would seem, from the episode) and helped build the Imperial fleet. And in so doing, she stripped entire worlds of their resources. She isn't FROM Corvus, it's just the latest planet she's in the process of destroying.

No, of course Corvus isn't Dathomir. I never said it was, neither did the story on screen.

And I explicitly addressed your second point right there in the very post you're quoting, but apparently didn't read. No, she can't be a Nightsister. She isn't even the right species to have ever been one, other issues aside. Which is why I pointed out that in the old EU there were other tribes on Dathomir, not just the Nightsisters.

There is nothing in the episode to directly suggest the fan theory might be a thing, but nothing that directly contradicts it either. It's just kind of a fun idea to kick around.

 

[fireproof78]

He acts like he's 2 or 3 but if he'd already been studying in the Jedi temple to the point he had learned how to control the force, and is advanced enough intellectually to have told Ahsoka that, and that's how he knows to use his force powers as much as he does, it seems like he had to be the equivalent of like 8-10 when he was rescued from the temple.

I wonder if that species learns primary via Force contact, and other ways of communicating do not come until later.

 

[wayoung]

I wonder if that species learns primary via Force contact, and other ways of communicating do not come until later.

Then we're back to implying the entire species is force sensitive, which just doesn't seem to fit in with Star Wars. An entire race of super force users? And somehow only 3 ended up as Jedi? Meanwhile all the "chosen ones" are humans?

 

[fireproof78]

Then we're back to implying the entire species is force sensitive, which just doesn't seem to fit in with Star Wars. An entire race of super force users? And somehow only 3 ended up as Jedi? Meanwhile all the "chosen ones" are humans?

I don't see the issue. Many species didn't like the Jedi taking their children and some other planets had their own ways of using the Force. Kind of like the Bendu.

 

[Reverend]

If Grogu is 50 years old in human years then how old is he in Yoda years? One? Two?

Well if we presume for a second that Yoda's 900 years is advanced even for his species, let's say that's roughly equivalent to a 90 year old human. If so, then 50 would equate to about 5.
Of course that's not hard and fast, since as noted in the first episode; species develop at different rates. They could have an exceedingly long infancy where they're basically helpless, followed by a relatively brief adolescence before passing into full adulthood.

Good question! I never quite figured out what a “year” is interstellar terms. Is it a Coroscant year, a Tatooine year, a Dagobah year? I’m assuming that there was, at one time, an agreement during the Old Republic that all worlds abided by, but neither Wars nor Trek really elaborated on it.

Most settled planets use their own local calendars, but yes, for general reckoning Coruscant's year is the benchmark. Think of it like UTC.

Though defeating the Empire in just over a year after Endor is pretty quick. Yet a "year" seems to mess with the ages humans grow up, based on the like of Ezra and Luke and Leia.

It fell so quickly because Palpatine set-up Operation Cinder as a sort of self destruct in the event that he died. He didn't want his Empire to endure beyond him, not have anyone else take control of it.

He acts like he's 2 or 3 but if he'd already been studying in the Jedi temple to the point he had learned how to control the force, and is advanced enough intellectually to have told Ahsoka that, and that's how he knows to use his force powers as much as he does, it seems like he had to be the equivalent of like 8-10 when he was rescued from the temple.

He didn't "tell" her so much as she "felt" his thoughts and memories.
As I stated above, making a direct 1:1 comparison to human development may not be very accurate.
For what it's worth he'd have been about 20 when Order 66 went down. Assuming he was taken to the temple at two or three (or hell, maybe he was born in the temple!)

Then we're back to implying the entire species is force sensitive, which just doesn't seem to fit in with Star Wars. An entire race of super force users? And somehow only 3 ended up as Jedi? Meanwhile all the "chosen ones" are humans?

It has been established that some species have a more natural affinity to the force. Maybe their homeworld was once one of the mini-chlorian wellspring worlds? We know from just the Skywalkers that force sensitivity can be a genetic trait, so why not a whole species?
Evolutionarily speaking; a naturally long life span would indicate a very low birth rate, otherwise they'd quickly overrun their ecosystem. That means there's really not going to be very many of them. So for all we know there's only ever a handful in the entire galaxy!

As for the "Chosen One", remember that refers to a very specific prophecy. It's not as if the Force hasn't "chosen" thousands if not millions of others from all species over the millennia for deeds both legendary and obscure.