Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

[Discofan]

I don't know if you guys remember "Cheers" but in one episode Frasier is crying for some reason and then he leaves the bar. So Woody asks Sam: "Is it ok for a man to cry." and Sam answers: "I didn't want to say it in front of Frasier, but no, it's not ok"
so Woody says "I thought so." The way they say it is if funny as hell.

 

[Gilora]

I'm far more sick of people crying about Burnham crying than I am about Burnham crying, and they cry far more than Burnham cries.

On the contrary, the crying about the crying is entertaining. But I've been called heartless before.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know if you guys remember "Cheers" but in one episode Frasier is crying for some reason and then he leaves the bar. So Woody asks Sam: "Is it ok for a man to cry." and Sam answers: "I didn't want to say it in front of Frasier, but no, it's not ok"
so Woody says "I thought so." The way they say it is if funny as hell.

And in a comedy that kind of works. Sort of. It's also reflective BS attitude that men don't cry that continue to plagues many in a comedy I almost give it a pass.

But, this isn't a comedy. And that's the part that drives me nuts is this attitude that if a person cries too much then it somehow takes away from it. I don't know. Maybe it's regarded differently when presented in a dramatic fashion that crying is to be reserved by the writers for "big moments." I don't know. It strikes me in reading a lot of the comments here that crying is a weapon in the writer's arsenal and is to be wielded to manipulate the audiences emotions.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't know if you guys remember "Cheers" but in one episode Frasier is crying for some reason and then he leaves the bar. So Woody asks Sam: "Is it ok for a man to cry." and Sam answers: "I didn't want to say it in front of Frasier, but no, it's not ok"
so Woody says "I thought so." The way they say it is if funny as hell.

Well, Picard said it was OK to cry in the penalty box--surely that would apply to men as well?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It strikes me in reading a lot of the comments here that crying is a weapon in the writer's arsenal and is to be wielded to manipulate the audiences emotions.

I can see how that might be a concern, but I am not sure that it would apply. It seems that Burnham was always destined to recover her humanity and recognize her flaws. On the other hand, this episode had several big moments that should have been spread out into several. Rather than asking why the writers want Burnham to cry so much, we should ask why they insist on this breakneck pace. Shouldn't Burnham's reunion with mom have been it's own episode?

 

[fireproof78]

I can see how that might be a concern, but I am not sure that it would apply. It seems that Burnham was always destined to recover her humanity and recognize her flaws. On the other hand, this episode had several big moments that should have been spread out into several. Rather than asking why the writers want Burnham to cry so much, we should ask why they insist on this breakneck pace. Shouldn't Burnham's reunion with mom have been it's own episode?

That's a fair question, and more of interest to me. But, on the other hand, my feeling is that a lot of pieces are being set up with Burnham very driven and then getting that moment of reflection at the end. I think more of a coda style piece in an episode but instead at the end of the season.

I don't even know if that made sense but that's just my gut feeling.

 

[Firebird]

give me evidence that Shatners Kirk is not a household name and largely unknown. One of the greatest sci fi series in the last 60 years and you’re trying to claim it’s not well known to the general masses? Sorry but so funny. Post a link showing TOS is largely unknown.

Why should any of us bother in a bad faith debate with you?

 

[ananta]

The direction this thread has taken is enough to make anyone cry. On the other hand, the fact a certain faction of Trek fandom is having such a fervent and heated debate about a character crying is quite laughable. Only fans...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The direction this thread has taken is enough to make anyone cry. On the other hand, the fact a certain faction of Trek fandom is having such a fervent and heated debate about a character crying is quite laughable. Only fans...

I'll bet you can't wait until the next outcry from the Fandom Menace:

Spoiler

segregation

 

[jackoverfull]

I've hated on Voyager for a couple of decades. Made every possible joke about the premise and the characters. Did a Voyager rewatch ( which was more of a first watch) over the last few months and it's nowhere near as bad as I recalled. There are some solid Trek episodes in their and over the course of seven season it good ratio might even be better than TNG's!

Good for you. So?

Why should any of us bother in a bad faith debate with you?

interesting that when someone asks you to prove your exceptional statement such person is in “bad faith”.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

You very clearly suggested, in response to my post further up, that Burnham's crying was illegitimate when compared to Sisko. Considering crying for most is a hard-wired response, you made it not just about how much crying, but about comparing why particular characters are crying.

Don't tell me what I "very clearly" done. You were the one went down the road of comparing and I never mentioned a specific time Burnham cried and in fact I am not talking specifically about Burnham at all I was talking about all the crying on Discovery

 

[Firebird]

interesting that when someone asks you to prove your exceptional statement such person is in “bad faith”.

WTF are you talking about? I’ve made no exceptional statement that’s been asked to be proved.

Regardless, with the ever-moving goal posts of Pubert’s arguments, it’s clear to me they’re not interested in having any sort of debate. They made their decision, and are trying to prolong and confuse the issue. That, by definition, is a bad faith argument.

 

[jackoverfull]

WTF are you talking about? I’ve made no exceptional statement that’s been asked to be proved.

so that Kirk is famous for Chris Pine and nobody remembers Shatner is not an exceptional statement. Right.

Also, keep calm, no need to get as emotional as they get on discovery.

 

[Firebird]

so that Kirk is famous for Chris Pine and nobody remembers Shatner is not an exceptional statement. Right.

Also, keep calm, no need to get as emotional as they get on discovery.

Why don’t you take a look back at the thread at who actually made that statement. Hint: it wasn’t me.

 

[Fateor]

Discovery is in the top 10 for the third straight day (as of yesterday) on worldwide Netflix, reaching the top 10 in 40 countries, and in the US it is in the top 10 most in-demand shows, hitting a new season-high for last week.

Um... Your realize a show that's airing new episodes now being behind multiple shows that are only showing re-runs is a bad thing right?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Good for you. So?

Just engaging in conversation and sharing my journey. It’s what we do here.

 

[Lord Garth]

The direction this thread has taken is enough to make anyone cry. On the other hand, the fact a certain faction of Trek fandom is having such a fervent and heated debate about a character crying is quite laughable. Only fans...

I think this thread has been more revealing than any of the others combined.

 

[fireproof78]

Just engaging in conversation and sharing my journey. It’s what we do here.

Unless it is emotional sharing...

 

[ananta]

Unless it is emotional sharing...

And whatever you do, for goodness sake...don’t cry!! Not around here

 

[fireproof78]

And whatever you do, for goodness sake...don’t cry!! Not around here

*insert "There's No Crying in Star Trek meme here*