Writers forgetting common technologies?

[Deks]

I mean, I'm living through a plague right now where a large percentage of the population is claiming that there is no such thing as the novel coronavirus in spite of pile of almost a quarter-million bodies and millions of sick people, and where that same group is attempting to deny the reality of mathematics. So, no, the idea that the Federation might find itself unable to figure out how to deploy FTW tech on a large scale doesn't feel implausible to me -- I think it's perfectly plausible that the Burn could directly lead to the rise of reactionary factions that might inhibit the necessary research, production, and distribution of such technologies.

You're comparing modern day average humans who generally speaking LACK exposure to relevant general education (basic methods of science), critical thinking and problem solving to a futuristic Trek organisation comprised of MANY species (Federation) whose kids are learning calculus (among other things) at a very young age by the late 24th century and in some cases (like Wesley Crusher) have a good understanding of starship operations (which I don't know why was it so surprising to Picard because the information is likely freely available for Federation citizens in some kind of format since LCARS user interfaces alone permeated virtually every Federation computer by that time - and heck, the boy practically LIVED on starships and both of his parents were SF officers - that alone is bound to create better understanding of starship innards).

Also, Daniels mentioned to Archer he was learning to build basic temporal technology in high-school (albeit this was the 29th to 30th century - so just before the Temporal Cold war).

I don't think late 24th century (all the way to 29th or 30th century) Federation would have ANY issues deploying faster than Warp technology or alternate/superior power generation (especially when you factor in the premise they already have computers by that time that can provide you with new solutions if you instruct them to combine various information datasets together - which is nothing more than an interactive adaptive algorithm [and we have adaptive algorithms today]).

I think you're jumping more conclusions than can be supported on the basis of one failed test that would have led to Voyager's destruction but for temporal shenanigans.

Hardly.
I'm extrapolating based on what we saw on-screen and what happened 810 YEARS (that's 8 CENTURIES) ago from the 32nd century perspective (and btw, the 32nd century Starfleet/Federation would have all this on record - as they demonstrated that they DO have records of USS Discovery as well from the 23rd century - and even Booker mentioned QS technology... but he mentioned V2 which required Benamite crystals... but nothing about v1).

Also, the time travel was needed with usage of Version 2 of Slipstream to save the Voyager crew.
Version 1 of QS technology did NOT have the phase variance issue and only had a problem of quantum stresses hitting the ship in transit, preventing the use of the drive for longer than 1 hour.
Like I said, even without using version 2, version 1 would still have sufficed and could be used without Benamite crystals and with sufficiently strong structural integrity fields, which we know can be beefed up with more energy - and Starfleet also creates new ships all the time with more advanced structural integrity fields and even upgrades old ships with new technology - an 80 year old USS Lakota was upgraded to match a state of the art 24th century starship which was unofficially a warship, and quite probably SURPASSED the Defiant as well in Warp speed.

I mean, it's a basic law of thermodynamics that no process is 100% efficient and some energy is always lost. I would assume the amount of usable crystal retrieved each time the dilithium is recyrstalized gets smaller and smaller each time. It probably revolutionized warp tech in the 23rd Century but by the 30th it was probably no longer sufficient to keep usable indefinitely the same dwindling supply.

You get no argument from me on thermodynamics, but Trek demonstrated time and again that Starfleet leaves very little (aka practically nothing) to waste and that their conversion metrics are actually very close to 100%... and even in cases where waste is produced, it re-uses that waste (theta radiation for example is recycled back into the system via series of radiometric converters which turn it into plasma that powers onboard systems).
Also, why are we to assume this technology was never improved upon leading up to the Burn when we saw that Boooker's ship can achieve Warp with just a few fragments.
It seems to me the writers just made a throwaway comment for the sake of their story and ignored everything else to make it simple for themselves.

*shrugs* I'm willing to squint and ignore one-off VOY episodes for the sake of a good story. I mean, by that same logic, Federation science should be way more advanced in the TNG era than it is after the UFP encountered the Andromedan androids on the planet Mudd, or the Eymorg tech on Sigma Draconis VI.

I'm not so willing to do that... and, we were even shown the USS Voyager-J which further commits all of what happened to the original Voyager to solid canon (and SF has on record).

Of course that Federation science was supposed to have been FAR more advanced by the TNG era. We're talking about a freaking century of advancement for an organisation comprised of dozens to over 150 alien SPECIES working together which got ridiculous amount of new knowledge/information in the 23rd century to chew through.

That's millions of scientists per species (at least - because in the real world, not many people are encouraged or have an OPPORTUNITY to become scientists because of the system we live in - such barriers are largely ELIMINATED in Trek and people are encouraged to pursue sciences)... coupled with the highly advanced transluminal computer technologies and spaceflight.
We're not talking primitives here, so any comparison to our reality falls apart because they wouldn't have same artificial socio-economic limitations like we do.
We have highly advanced technology we can use but don't due to idiotically outdated socio-economic system and lack of political will in place coupled with a severely uneducated population... Trek Federation species don't have those problems.
Yes, they impose bans on certain research, like genetic engineering (but mainly for improvement of species via genetic engineering... and we also don't know if those regulations would still stand in the 32nd century).

In order for the story to work, it needs to work with the setting and enact some consistency. I'm sick of writers dumbing down technology for the sake of drama (which is why I rarely watch any scifi to begin with these days).
Give me something a bit more convincing rather than disabling every piece of technology on board as a quick and dirty shortcut in order for the story to work - it just makes my eyes roll as a result.

Did previous Trek did this to make the story work? Sure... but that doesn't mean Discovery can't or shouldn't do better.

Do we know that with certainty?

Its based off canon data we have from TNG. Romulan warp cores use a forced quantum singularity as a power source and 0 mention of dilithium.
Dilithium is specifically mentioned in Trek to be used for regulating Matter/Anti-matter reactions.
A forced quantum singularity core wouldn't need dilithium... but its likely that not all Romulan ships (at least in the 24th century) have such power cores... in which case, its not unlikely to see civilian and cargo/freighter ships running on M/AM and dilithium - but that would largely disappear by the 25th century entirely.

Also, its unlikely that Starfleet couldn't get its hands on a functioning forced quantum singularity power core... and technically they wouldn't need to.
Even the knowledge they exist provides indication that its possible to achieve and therefore should be achievable within 50 to 100 years (given the advanced science, technology and knowledge Federation already has).

I think you are holding them to a standard writers on other shows aren't required to live up to.

There are shows that don't blow consistency out of the water for the sake of drama. They INCORPORATE drama to work with the setting.

I'm hardly looking for anything overtly complex... just more consistency based on what we already know.

How would it hurt the show if the try and raise the bar in that regard?
Or is that too much 'Janet Reno' of me?

ST writers have never, ever been consistent about how fast different warp factors actually are.

Except for a whole bunch of times when it was established in canon what the Warp speeds were you mean?
How difficult is it to create a small basic chart to keep track of what was said before and base your calculations off that or create a workable speed/metric as a basis for later use?
Sure, TOS was all over the place with Warp speeds, but mostly because external influence seemed to have messed with the engines (which alone should have given Starfleet ways to use those speeds themselves safely and efficiently in the next 50 to 100 years).
And late TNG, DS9 and VOY were pretty consistent with how fast Warp travel is more or less (Tom Paris even mentioned that Warp 9.9 = 4 billion miles per second, translating to 21 473 times speed of light - which works relatively well for longer Warp travels at lower speeds)... so it wasn't that difficult to set a lower, medium and upper limits and work from that.

Again, technological development is not a linear, ordinal progression from inferior to superior, and it is highly dependent upon the economic and political systems in which they occur. It's entirely plausible that they could be way more advanced in some ways, more advanced than the Discovery but less advanced than you would think in other ways, and even less advanced than Discovery in other ways.

No, its not linear. Technological and scienctific development is EXPONENTIAL.
There is such a thing as 'point of no return' where you reach a 'threshold' of sorts and progression simply doesn't stop anymore. You can't put the proverbial genie back into the bottle (which is happening now), and technology and science will KEEP progressing in the real world and displacing outdated politicians and worldviews. We need to educate the population to better prepare for it.

There is too much redundancy and inter-connectivity for stagnation to suddenly occur - short of a planetary disaster that destroys all your means of storing information, but we know this didn't happen in Trek on a galactic level even... and they aren't confined to 1 planet either - Starfleet still has all the data on its past ships and their missions, and its very likely all ex-Federation worlds would have copies of Federation databases leading up to the Burn.

The Burn simply resulted in a slow but steady decline of long range sensors (along with a lot of starships being destroyed) which disconnected most Federation worlds from each other... but right up until that point of disconnect, they would all still have access to all the technologies (except Temporal ones) just before the Burn - hence the apparent omni-presence of programmable matter everywhere (for example).

Why the heck would most of those ex Federation worlds suddenly lose light years large real time scanning abilities that were there for centuries and worked off the orbital habitats or satellites from their very own orbits and had nothing to do with long range subspace relay stations (which only extended those sensors and communications beyond their standard limits?).

Sahil's relay outpost still had 600 lightyears worth of short range sensors. 600 Light years is more than enough to encompass A LOT of Federation member worlds btw.
And if that ancient relay station had them, then so would most/all ex-Federation worlds (and we know that Earth, Andor, Vulcan and Tellar at least were all very close to each other in galactic terms - well within 200 lightyears radius - along with a whole other bunch of alien species too if you go by Enterprise series [NX-01]).

Here's an example: In the real world, we developed the technology necessary to traverse the Atlantic Ocean at supersonic speeds in less than four hours in the 1970s... and we have de facto lost that that technology today with the retirement of the Aérospatiale/BAC Concorde almost twenty years ago. And yet when the Concorde was developed, the idea of instantaneous intercontinental communication utilizing a combination of textual, graphical, and televisual technologies in a mobile device was the stuff of science fiction. So which society is more "advanced," 2020s Earth or 1970s Earth?

And yet, the technology still exists... it hadn't disappeared into nothingness.
There are many technologies we invented since 1970-ies and never implemented due to living in an outdated socio-economic and political systems (but we still put more research and development into them over time, so they would have been even better if implemented today).
Trek Federation doesn't have an outdated socio-economic and political systems... which wouldn't have interfered with rapid research&development and implementation of most technologies in the proceeding centuries (from the 24th to the 30th at least).

The way Burnham described it, the Federation apparently never even looked into alternate means of power generation or FTL until the Dilithium dried up by the year 2958
We know this is nonsense because the Federation had several power generation and FTL research in development in the mid/late 24th century already.

Another example of technological regression in our lifetimes due to the economic and political systems in which they exist: The Airbus A380 is the world's largest passenger airliner. It has seating for 525 people, and is certified for up to 853 people. That's almost a thousand people per plane! And yet the A380 is ceasing production and will probably disappear because the infrastructure necessary to support it is proving not to be economical for airline companies in the context of 2020s global capitalism.

As I said, Trek Federation doesn't use the same socio-economic or political systems, therefore, such obvious hangups in regards to implementing superior technologies and science would not have occurred in the first place.
Plus, its a space-faring combination of alien cultures - again, leading up to the Burn (or at least the Temporal Wars), these hangups wouldn't really exist.

But I'm open to see if they provide 'some' explanation for the inconsistencies we saw in regards to ignoring basic technologies.

It would! And yet being isolationists, they apparently have fetishized this idea of "self-sufficiency" (which reminds me a lot of the toxic concept of autarky) to the point of not even being interested in establishing territorial control of Luna. Given that their planetary defense system only extends to low-Earth orbit, I would hypothesize that there is a political component to their technological limitations. Ignoring events out on Titan wouldn't be the first time a government has ignored the necessity of gathering and responding to intelligence about foreign powers.

Wouldn't it make for a more interesting story that Earth knew about Titan but chose not to render air because Titan broke off from Earth a century ago and was more concerned with their own well-being?
That would make more sense rather than saying: 'communications blackout' and 'lack of long range sensors' (when even ships they use would have long range sensors and communications) after Discovery managed to make them talk to each other.

*shrugs* Doesn't bother me. Some tech can get lost and some preserved. There's no objective reason why I can facetime my friends in New Zealand but can't take get there in 3.07 hours in a supersonic jet, and yet that is the world I live in.

We could have built a vacuum maglev network since 1974 which would achieve speeds of 2000 miles per hour in a span of a decade using automation technology of the era (we still can and even improve upon that)... but we hadn't because live in a system which considers such implementation 'cost prohibitive' from a monetary point of view and there are various industries that profiteer off existing/outdated practices (again, Federation has no money, no same socio-economic or political hangups, so broadly speaking, such problems would not occur and would be FAR more open to new/innovative technologies).

Again, there is a severe disconnect between how Trek does things and how we do things, because Trek humans (and most species that joined the Federation leading up to the Burn) overcame the societal problems we are faced with (which we can solve too).

1) I think it's pretty obvious almost no one from Earth is going to warp these days.

2) The capabilities of sensors at warp have been depicted inconsistently for many years.

1. Correct... but my point is that this kind of basic sensor ability would still have to be part of any ship you build - especially if you 'fetishize' self-sufficiency and want to protect what you have from raiders.
2. And yet more times than not, subspace sensors have lightyears long range in the both 23rd and 24th centuries, and are capable of reading individual DNA of crews on moving ships at FTL far away consistently.

They are doing their job. Their job is to tell a compelling story with interesting characters going on emotionally affecting journeys with depth of theme -- and to do so in a timely fashion and on budget according to the economic pressures under which television is produced.

What exactly is compelling about a story that falls apart in 10 seconds of objective analysis when you factor in the setting its produced in?
I hated that about TNG too.. the Warp core ejection system that never worked for example (I mean, who realistically designs a ship with a safeguard that never works?).

Looking at the story from episode 4 for example (with Adira recalling her memories)... one thing that was quite 'astonishing' was that an asteroid managed to collide with a moving Trek based generational ship of the 30th century. We know impulse speeds have extremely high velocities (at least 74 000 km/s as of late 24th century) and that each ship emits a low subspace field which allows it to lower its mass and maneuver like a fighter craft. Its basic requirement for using sublight, because even pushing thrusters of a space station like DS9 to the brink would have cracked it like an egg if the subspace field was not sufficiently strong/effective (and that was of a Cardassian design with stripped down systems mostly).
Also, whatever happened to basic deflectors which remove interstellar dust and micrometeoroids out of the way at sub-light? You'd think an automated equivalent in the 30th century would work for an asteroid, or at least to the point which would detect it from hundreds of thousands of km away and move the ship out of the way - but I'm willing to leave this one out as we don't know the composition of the asteroid, and whether it may have been a targeted attack... and the rest of the story actually tracked well with what was previously established on Trek in regards to technology and Trill biology.

Their job is not to come up with technobabble to cover every last minor detail from a franchise consisting of almost 800 episodes across 50 years. And, yes, one-off episodes where a ship on an old TV show that aired its last new episode four months into the George W. Bush Administration gets X light-years closer to home thanks to Y technology that subsequently never appears, is a minor detail.

Not every last minor detail of over 800 years... just for well established things (for which there isn't a huge ton of material to go through)... and if they say they have people who watched and like Trek as a whole working on the show (which they did), then I would expect this basic level of competence.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Or that, at the exact moment Khan is springing his trap, Kirk just happens to be getting out from behind his desk to go on a joy ride with his old crew and a group of cadets aboard the Enterprise.

And his ex girlfriend and their son just happen to the scientists in charge of the project Khan is interested in. (Thanks to Kirk’s former navigator)

 

[fireproof78]

story that falls apart in 10 seconds of objective analysis when you factor in the setting its produced in?

The characters.

 

[Scout101]

So we're looking at 26 years during which supersonic travel was de facto a lost technology. Technological development is definitely not always linear.

While we're nitpicking things, it's not a lost technology, it's just not being used commercially. The military has plenty of supersonic jets.

A better example would be something like the Saturn V rocket that we've lost the ability/knowledge to build. Essentially starting over on various concepts around that, but the height of that tech disappeared after the mid-70s and is just starting to show up again now

 

[Deks]

A better example would be something like the Saturn V rocket that we've lost the ability/knowledge to build. Essentially starting over on various concepts around that, but the height of that tech disappeared after the mid-70s and is just starting to show up again now

The Saturn V blueprints were lost yes, but we do have 3 full original Staurn V rockets on display which are accessible to the general public.
Couldn't those be used to figure out to make new or even better ones?
And in a world of adaptive algorithms that does scientific research, 3d printing, molecular manufacturing (since 2015) and AI controlled atomic scale manufacturing (since 2018), you'd think that building necessary (even superior) technology would actually be relatively easy.
Heck, we can use the landfills for the raw material.

EDIT:
Correction, the Saturn V blueprints were not lost it seems:
(This is) a claim John Lewis made in his 1996 book, Mining the Sky, that he went looking for the Saturn 5 blueprints a few years ago and concluded, incredibly, they had been "lost."

Paul Shawcross, from NASA's Office of Inspector General, came to the agency's defense in comments published on CCNet -- a scholarly electronic newsletter covering the threat of asteroids and comets. Shawcross said the Saturn 5 blueprints are held at the Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm.

"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."

Shawcross cautioned that rebuilding a Saturn 5 would require more than good blueprints.

"The problem in recreating the Saturn 5 is not finding the drawings, it is finding vendors who can supply mid-1960's vintage hardware," he wrote, "and the fact that the launch pads and vehicle assembly buildings have been converted to space shuttle use, so you have no place to launch from.


So, from this, its not a matter of even rebuilding the thing... we have the needed technical expertise via modern manufacturing to build 1960-ies hardware by printing it out or assembling it via molecular manufacturing or AI controlled atomic scale manufacturing.

But here's the crux... why focus on 1960-ies vintage HW?
We developed far better methods today that could act as more than viable (and reliable) replacements.
Or use 1960-ies hw as a baseline and just build it using superior synthetic composites.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it comes down to political will. The Federation has demonstrated, time and again, a lack of willingness to push technologies beyond the most basic concepts, and to bin entire technologies based upon fear.

 

[Deks]

I think it comes down to political will. The Federation has demonstrated, time and again, a lack of willingness to push technologies beyond the most basic concepts, and to bin entire technologies based upon fear.

This never made sense to me.
For some technologies this has been the case, such as abandoning the Omega Molecule development as a power source on 1 failed attempt - I mean, who does that?
And what about the Genesis device?

Sure the Omega molecule accident had resulted in subspace damage, but so could a number of other things like Warp drive (which is far more commonly used).
The Federation should have learned from that accident and conducted a number of simulations before making another attempt elsewhere (say an uninhabited sector of space a bit further away).
Space exploration is dangerous by itself... people risk their lives every single day by just being in Starfleet (and the Dominion War killed a LOT of people)... and yet the Federation and Starfleet still exist.

Scientific research and development are both rife with risks and LEARNING upon failure.
But we've seen that the Federation went mainstream with Temporal technology just 200 years after the 24th century (or at least, that's the first indication we got from that fake historian who stole a 26th century historian's shuttle).

And temporal technology (aka time travel) was established as something highly complex and dangerous... not to mention rife with bad consequences that could obliterate you in a blink of an eye if you do something wrong.

But the Federation went in that direction anyway and stayed on that trajectory for what... 500 odd years?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Because Omega's failure could damage giant chunks of Subspace making Warp Travel impossible, the road to success will be literred with failure and causing giant chunks of space from being unusable with Warp Travel.

That is the main impetus to stop R&D-ing Omega. And I don't disagree with their assessment.

Until they can fix the SubSpace damage, there's no way get access through that chunk of space other than STL.

Genesis is a whole different issue, I still think it has value to continue the R&D on.

 

[fireproof78]

For some technologies this has been the case, such as abandoning the Omega Molecule development as a power source on 1 failed attempt - I mean, who does that?
And what about the Genesis device?

And genetic engineering. And a phasing cloak that works.

And temporal technology (aka time travel) was established as something highly complex and dangerous... not to mention rife with bad consequences that could obliterate you in a blink of an eye if you do something wrong.

I mean, yes and no. Kirk and co. did it for historical observation without much difficulty so time travel clearly was known for a while. Inconsistently applied to be sure but still available.

Here's the thing. I'm not arguing that there should be some technological change. However, I am not going to assume that because X number of years have passed that the Federation has flung resources and research in to all these technologies. I think there is a general inconsistency and the Federation swings from expansion to protection depending on the circumstances.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

But here's the crux... why focus on 1960-ies vintage HW?
We developed far better methods today that could act as more than viable (and reliable) replacements.
Or use 1960-ies hw as a baseline and just build it using superior synthetic composites.

The bell housing around the exhaust can't be just made using composites, raw modern metal alloys is what's needed to contain the heat.

And the SLS project has already 3D scanned the Bell Housing on the Saturn V.

The bigger issue is that NASA isn't pushing AeroSpike engine technology. AeroSpike is a more efficient exhaust nozzle, that's what NASA should be focusing on.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Here's the thing. I'm not arguing that there should be some technological change. However, I am not going to assume that because X number of years have passed that the Federation has flung resources and research in to all these technologies. I think there is a general inconsistency and the Federation swings from expansion to protection depending on the circumstances.

A good chunk of that is the political will of the UFP governmental body and how far they are willing to push certain technologies or ban others.

Like Genetic Engineering.

 

[Deks]

And genetic engineering. And a phasing cloak that works.

Genetic engineering is a bit of a doozy... and as I said, we don't know if that particular rule wasn't abandoned between the 24th and 32nd century.
I sure hope it was.

Well, Starfleet DID develop the phasing cloak and it works... the thing is that this development was not in accordance with the Treaty of Algeron... still, Starfleet developed this technology in secret, and over a decade ahead of the Romulans first attempt (and the Enterprise was completely undetectable to the Romulan Warbird sensors while cloaked).

I mean, yes and no. Kirk and co. did it for historical observation without much difficulty so time travel clearly was known for a while. Inconsistently applied to be sure but still available.

Here's the thing. I'm not arguing that there should be some technological change. However, I am not going to assume that because X number of years have passed that the Federation has flung resources and research in to all these technologies. I think there is a general inconsistency and the Federation swings from expansion to protection depending on the circumstances.

I would imagine that faster than Warp technologies would have taken priority as they open up new venues for exploration and discovery (especially Quantum Slipstream since Voyager crew already did a lionshare of the workload in making it happen... along with Coaxial warp)... response to distress calls in a timely manner, relief efforts, etc.
Alternate power generation is ALWAYS good to have if you can get away from dilithium mining and building M/AM generators.

Also, Transwarp beaming at the very least would have been incredibly good/convenient to have in the 32nd century (maybe they do have it and we will learn Starfleet has been using it in secret to gather more evidence about the Burn - here's hoping).

And also, it doesn't make much sense to remain with 1 technology (for power generation and regulation of reactions) for a 1000 years... especially for an interstellar organisation that emphasizes health and safety (along with environmental preservation) not to mention understands the problems with dilithium mining.

 

[Deks]

The bell housing around the exhaust can't be just made using composites, raw modern metal alloys is what's needed to contain the heat.

And the SLS project has already 3D scanned the Bell Housing on the Saturn V.

The bigger issue is that NASA isn't pushing AeroSpike engine technology. AeroSpike is a more efficient exhaust nozzle, that's what NASA should be focusing on.

There are a number of engine technologies that NASA and other space agencies should be pushing... but they don't.
Part of the problem is the overblown military budget of USA and other countries who emphasize military over investing money in infrastructure, environmental protection, improvement of quality of life, NASA, etc.
But then again the military industrial complex wouldn't be as lucrative.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There are a number of engine technologies that NASA and other space agencies should be pushing... but they don't.
Part of the problem is the overblown military budget of USA.

No, part of the problem is that congressmen like to play favorites and force contracts down NASA's throat to favor their state. Ergo the SLS issue where it should've been far cheaper then it is, but forced inefficiencies based on Congressman wanting Financial "Pork" contracts for their states are making NASA do stupid shit.

The military has and needs its budget so that we can stay on top and deal with threats around the world like China, like the Middle East, Russia, Iran, etc.

When you have the role of protecting Western Democracy and you're the primary force that executes those actions, you generally have a expensive Military Budget when you're the top dog.

Guess what StarFleet isn't going to be any different once it gets big enough.

Even if there is no $$$, there will be a giant StarFleet ready to protect UFP interests, and any threats to UFP commerce will get protected by StarFleet.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Faster than Warp technologies would have taken priority as they open up new venues for exploration and discovery... response to distress calls in a timely manner.
Also, Transwarp beaming would have been incredibly good/convenient to have in the 32nd century.
And also, it doesn't make much sense to remain with 1 technology (for power generation and regulation of reactions) for a 1000 years... especially for an interstellar organisation that emphasizes health and safety (along with environmental preservation) not to mention understands the problems with dilithium mining.

The over-focusing on 1 technology for power generation is a stupid plot device the writers are forcing down the viewers gullet.

StarFleet and the UFP should've diversified, no matter how "GREEN" M/A-M reaction is.

And Synthetic Dilithium Crystals should've been grown artificially and mass produced.

We can make Artificial Diamonds now in mass quantities, there is no reason why Dilithium Crystals should be any different.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

...It's a extra dimensional element that let's you fold space.

I thought that's what The Spice was for.

 

[fireproof78]

And also, it doesn't make much sense to remain with 1 technology (for power generation and regulation of reactions) for a 1000 years... especially for an interstellar organisation that emphasizes health and safety (along with environmental preservation) not to mention understands the problems with dilithium mining.

It makes sense if you are in a reactionary and fear based mindset. Which, given the numerous wars and such may have become more common.

I don't know. I just know what is presented and I will work with what is given. For reasons, probably fear and lack of political will, the Federation became protectionist and less expansionist. Thus, any tech they found was no offering safe enough options for FTL to their liking. Just like with genetic engineering, where the fear of "another Khan" kept them from exploring it for 200 years at least.

Again, technology gets binned constantly in the Federation, largely for the sake of dramatic convivence. At this point, it's not a bug but a feature.

 

[Deks]

The military has and needs its budget so that we can stay on top and deal with threats around the world like China, like the Middle East, Russia, Iran, etc.

When you have the role of protecting Western Democracy and you're the primary force that executes those actions, you generally have a expensive Military Budget when you're the top dog.

Assuming you are not being sarcastic... I don't agree with that assessment (for a number of reasons).

Guess what StarFleet isn't going to be any different once it gets big enough.

Even if there is no $$$, there will be a giant StarFleet ready to protect UFP interests, and any threats to UFP commerce will get protected by StarFleet.

Considering that Starfleet is NOT a military organisation, I'd say it didn't and it wouldn't.
And it seems to have upheld its ethos of not interfering in other people's affairs.
Starfleet springs into defensive action when its assets are in danger yes (such as fending off pirates, and ensuring the Federation population can live in peace)... but mostly as a preventative measure, and it always tries to find a peaceful solution to problems. It usually doesn't fly around CAUSING them (at least... not intentionally).

The USA military on the other hand doesn't do things like that.

The over-focusing on 1 technology for power generation is a stupid plot device the writers are forcing down the viewers gullet.

StarFleet and the UFP should've diversified, no matter how "GREEN" M/A-M reaction is.

And Synthetic Dilithium Crystals should've been grown artificially and mass produced.

We can make Artificial Diamonds now in mass quantities, there is no reason why Dilithium Crystals should be any different.

Well said.
:-)

 

[Deks]

It makes sense if you are in a reactionary and fear based mindset. Which, given the numerous wars and such may have become more common.

I don't know. I just know what is presented and I will work with what is given. For reasons, probably fear and lack of political will, the Federation became protectionist and less expansionist. Thus, any tech they found was no offering safe enough options for FTL to their liking. Just like with genetic engineering, where the fear of "another Khan" kept them from exploring it for 200 years at least.

Again, technology gets binned constantly in the Federation, largely for the sake of dramatic convivence. At this point, it's not a bug but a feature.

But my point is that we have seen on numerous occasions that Starfleet wasn't that fear oriented and it pursued arguably VERY dangerous technologies (like Temporal technology).
So, sticking with dilithium and M/AM didn't make any sense given the information we have of Trek universe as a whole and that Trek Federation was initially written to be portrayed as progressive and changing over time (you know, giving you a sense that better than what we have now is possible).

 

[fireproof78]

But my point is that we have seen on numerous occasions that Starfleet wasn't that fear oriented and it pursued arguably VERY dangerous technologies (like Temporal technology).
So, sticking with dilithium and M/AM didn't make any sense given the information we have of Trek universe as a whole and that Trek Federation was initially written to be portrayed as progressive and changing over time (you know, giving you a sense that better than what we have now is possible).

I think it has demonstrated both and I'm inclined to think it leaned too far another way.

Yes, it certainly has demonstrated dangerous tech and yes I agree that other power options would be appropriate to explore but I'll not assume that it will happen automatically.