I still like the Picard show but I get what you mean. I had the same with Luke in the ST. We have our hero who believed he could turn Dart Vader who killed Ben. But wanted to kill his nephew who had a dark dream.
Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…
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I still like the Picard show but I get what you mean. I had the same with Luke in the ST. We have our hero who believed he could turn Dart Vader who killed Ben. But wanted to kill his nephew who had a dark dream.
These are characters not heroes or deities or gods.
Define "advanced." In technology, sure, presumably including laws and so forth. But humans themselves are not supposed to be different from modern humans.
They won't change it.
Star Trek was meant to show humanity, both good and ill. You cannot just assume we are going to get better as a species. That's a fool's errand at best, and TNG was most guilty of it. That "we've evolved" while at the same time looking down on people as lesser because they don't share that evolved sentiment. That's laughable at best, insulting at worst, and does little to inspire me in this current time.
People don't have to like current Trek but it not dystopian, not ruining Trek and not any worse or better than past Trek.
I would suggest not watching it.
Indeed yes, because ultimately these are stories about humans for humans. If the audience cannot relate then the story is meaningless.
Well you have one thing right. I’m not watching much and it looks like plenty of there are bailing. Thank god it’s only 10 eps a season. Hopefully season 4 will be discovery’s last and season 3 will be Picard last. Even better if they end Picard at season 2.
Or, you just don't watch it and don't worry about it since it clearly means nothing to you.
While others, like myself, actually enjoy it, are entertained by it, and maybe connect with the characters like people have done with past Treks, but I didn't with TNG.
IDIC-not just for jewelry anymore.
I can tell you one thing: I can't watch this series anymore!
I've tried. I've really tried to like this series because I like Captain picard, I like Star trek TNG and I've been waiting for so many years for a return to the 24th century.
But watching "Picard" ruins all the fun it was to watch TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
I had a bad feeling already from the start. What gave me tis bad feeling can be clearly seen in this picture below:
The upper picture is from TNG. There is the bridge of the Enterprise bridge in clear light.
The lower picture is from "Picard". It's dark!
Everything is dark!
Now that is typical for all dystopic 2010-2020 era depressive, dystopic crap movies and series I simply can't stand.
That darkness immediately gave me bad feelings and unfortunately my gut feeling was right.
Darkness, depressive stories, blood splattered scenes like the torture of Icheb and so on.
In fact, even Picard is ruined as a character. It's actually ironic that the Picard we see in this series is almost similar to the Picard we saw in "Tapestry", the episode where Q gave him a chance to live his life again and correct past mistakes and he ended up a bitter, depressive man who had missed all the opportunities he had to do something useful of his life.
Killing him of and restore him as an android was just the final destruction of an once great character.
And that's the end of it for me. I rather watch TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of Voyager over and over and over and over again than waste my time on any of those new, horrible, dystopic series among which we can count "Star Trek Discovery" and "Picard". In fact, those series are not Star Trek, they are Dystopic Trek.
The only SF-series I can watch nowadays is The Orville. Despite it's highly annoying silliness, it's the only SF-series which at least reminds me a little about the once so great and exceiting Star Trek.
totally agree with you lynx. Star Trek is just generic sci fi now with bright see thru holo panels and everything. Even back to TOS humanity has learned to evolve in its behavior. Hard to believe that Picard shows humanity just like it is now even talking like 20th and 21st century humans. With the same exact slang. They even have the sane clothes we do. Yeah I used to watch Star Trek to get away from the real world and see a fantasy world where humans had finally gotten over their petty squabbles. Yeah we got the bad Starfleet admiral every now and then and the darker storylines in DS9 but there was always that humanity really is better in the background. That positivity. That’s all gone now.
"We're killers but we're not going to kill today."
"Keep any bigotry in your quarters."
"Revenge, captain?" "Why not?"
Humanity is humanity. The evolved sense was greatly overstated. We were just presented as more willing to work together.
And, as per usual, those who decry Picard as dystopian don't understand what that actually means. The Federation wasn't shown in any dystopian view. Picard rejected their decision and walked. That's not dystopian.
What they are is neocons who never really understood/understand Star Trek, and are angry that Discovery has women in power on the ship and gay people, and that it has minorities at the front, and not at the back, of the bus.
You probably expect me to reply a certain way... but I'm not going to do that.I can tell you one thing: I can't watch this series anymore!
I've tried. I've really tried to like this series because I like Captain picard, I like Star trek TNG and I've been waiting for so many years for a return to the 24th century.
But watching "Picard" ruins all the fun it was to watch TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
I had a bad feeling already from the start. What gave me tis bad feeling can be clearly seen in this picture below:
The upper picture is from TNG. There is the bridge of the Enterprise bridge in clear light.
The lower picture is from "Picard". It's dark!
Everything is dark!
Now that is typical for all dystopic 2010-2020 era depressive, dystopic crap movies and series I simply can't stand.
That darkness immediately gave me bad feelings and unfortunately my gut feeling was right.
Darkness, depressive stories, blood splattered scenes like the torture of Icheb and so on.
In fact, even Picard is ruined as a character. It's actually ironic that the Picard we see in this series is almost similar to the Picard we saw in "Tapestry", the episode where Q gave him a chance to live his life again and correct past mistakes and he ended up a bitter, depressive man who had missed all the opportunities he had to do something useful of his life.
Killing him of and restore him as an android was just the final destruction of an once great character.
And that's the end of it for me. I rather watch TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of Voyager over and over and over and over again than waste my time on any of those new, horrible, dystopic series among which we can count "Star Trek Discovery" and "Picard". In fact, those series are not Star Trek, they are Dystopic Trek.
The only SF-series I can watch nowadays is The Orville. Despite it's highly annoying silliness, it's the only SF-series which at least reminds me a little about the once so great and exceiting Star Trek.
I think you should give TOS another look and maybe given VOY Seasons 4-7 another chance even if Kes isn't there. Combined, it's seven more seasons of Star Trek in the style you seem to prefer.
That reminds me....
'Cause I was born in a dump
My mama died and my daddy got drunk
He left me here to die in poverty
In the middle of Wilhelmina Colony
I grew up in a crappy ceramic plastic shack
Raggedy clothes, and a spacesuit that was wack
The Fates know, how I can't bear to be
In this place called Wilhelmina Colony!
But it's a home, yeah
The only life I'll ever know
And The Fates know, how I can't bear to be
In this place called Wilhelmina Colony, yeah!
I'm gonna leave and get a job
With the help and the grace from above
Save my money and get rich, you all see
And bring it back to Wilhelmina Colony!
Bring explosives and robot cranes
Blow it up and start all over again
And I'll rebuild everything, make it a thing of beauty
That deserves the name, Wilhelmina Colony!
'Cause it's a home, yeah, yeah-
The only life I'll ever know!
And I despise you, 'cause you're filthy-but I love you because you're my home!
Hey, Wilhelmina, hey Wilhelmina,
Now you're dirty and you're filthy
Wilhelmina Colony!
I'm gonna get me some explosives
And I'll bring me a crane
And then blow it up
I'll tear down and start out all over again
Hey Wilhelmina,Wilhelmina Colony
I love you, yeah
Because you're my home
But you're dirty and you're filthy
Wilhelmina Colony
I'm gonna blow you up
I'm gonna tear you down
And I'll build me a town
That I will be proud to show
But I'll keep the name
I'm gonna keep the name
I'm gonna keep the name
Wilhelmina Colony, Wilhelmina Colony
Wilhelmina Colony, Colony, Colony, Colony
I'm talkin' 'bout
Wilhelmina Colony, Colony, oh yeah!
Wilhelmina Colony (sung to the tune of 'Tobacco Road')-John D. Loudermilk (Lou Rawls version)
Bjayzal gained Seven's trust and began a relationship with her purely to gain access to ex-borg. Bjayzal lured Icheb using a fake distress call, captured him and then had his borg components removed without anesthetic. Bjayazal enabled the closest thing Seven had to a son to be brutalised. That is pure unforgiveable evil and Bjayzal was anything but helpless.
Seven made Bjayzal's death quick and instant, a mercy that Bjayzal never afforded Icheb.
Until he gets to ‘One’ and hates it because the lights are off. Then like four episodes later comes ‘Night.’
you tryna give Lynx an aneurysm?
Star Trek on my Most Utopic to Least Utopic Scale:
1. TNG Seasons 1-2
2. TNG Seasons 3-7 (automatically moves down a notch once Gene Roddenberry fades into the background)
3. TOS
4. VOY
5. DS9 Seasons 1-2 (pre-Dominion)
6. PIC
7. DS9 Seasons 3-5 (leading up to the Dominion War)
8. DSC Season 2
9. DS9 Seasons 6-7 (the Dominion War)
10. DSC Season 1
I'm not including ENT because it's Pre-Federation. I'm also not including LD or DSC Season 3 because "Spoilers!" But I don't think I'm really spoiling anything by saying Lower Decks is about as far from dark as you can get.
Most of the darkness in Picard comes from personal tragedy. On a galactic scale, things aren't that bad. None of the major powers are at war. The Dominion War is a distant memory. The tragedy on Mars took place 14 years before the series is set. The Romulans seem to be recovering from Hobus pretty well, all things considered. The Starfleet uniforms even have more color now than they did during the FC/late-DS9 days.
(For those wondering: I put TOS above VOY because Kirk didn't have to worry about integrating Maquis crewmembers or always being "under constant attack," to quote Janeway.)
1. TNG Seasons 1-2
2. TNG Seasons 3-7 (automatically moves down a notch once Gene Roddenberry fades into the background)
3. TOS
4. VOY
5. DS9 Seasons 1-2 (pre-Dominion)
6. PIC
7. DS9 Seasons 3-5 (leading up to the Dominion War)
8. DSC Season 2
9. DS9 Seasons 6-7 (the Dominion War)
10. DSC Season 1
I'm not including ENT because it's Pre-Federation. I'm also not including LD or DSC Season 3 because "Spoilers!" But I don't think I'm really spoiling anything by saying Lower Decks is about as far from dark as you can get.
Most of the darkness in Picard comes from personal tragedy. On a galactic scale, things aren't that bad. None of the major powers are at war. The Dominion War is a distant memory. The tragedy on Mars took place 14 years before the series is set. The Romulans seem to be recovering from Hobus pretty well, all things considered. The Starfleet uniforms even have more color now than they did during the FC/late-DS9 days.
(For those wondering: I put TOS above VOY because Kirk didn't have to worry about integrating Maquis crewmembers or always being "under constant attack," to quote Janeway.)
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What a bizarre thing to say. Does The Lord of the Rings ruin the fun of The Hobbit? Does the tonal darkness of The Empire Strikes Back ruin the fun of A New Hope? Does the big revelation at the end of The Matrix Reloaded ruin the fun of The Matrix? Does Henry V ruin Henry IV? Do the events of The Ill-Made Knight and The Candle in the Wind ruin the fun of The Sword in the Stone? Does Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows ruin Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone? Did The Dark Knight ruin Batman Begins?
I had a bad feeling already from the start. What gave me tis bad feeling can be clearly seen in this picture below:
The upper picture is from TNG. There is the bridge of the Enterprise bridge in clear light.
The lower picture is from "Picard". It's dark!
Everything is dark!
I am sorry to hear that you prefer cheap 1980s overlit schemes over rich, luscious, cinematic lighting schemes that used to be too expensive for TV. Tell me, are you the sort of person who would prefer to use ceiling-mounted florescent lighting in your home?
Nothing about PIC is dystopian. Bad things happen and then Picard leads the Federation back into decency.
And the plot of PIC is how he goes back to being the heroic figure we all remember. Complaining that he doesn't start the story in a position of triumphalism is just silly.
You speak as though there's something wrong with being an android.
They're not dystopias. That's just false.
The only SF-series I can watch nowadays is The Orville. Despite it's highly annoying silliness, it's the only SF-series which at least reminds me a little about the once so great and exceiting Star Trek.
You mean the show that depicts stalking your ex as a totally normal, understandable thing? The show that depicts Kelly as being unreasonable for being upset by? That show?
Yeah, real "optimistic," that one.
I broadly agree that most of the darkness in PIC is tonal rather than plot. But I do want to push back a bit on the idea that the Romulan supernova wasn't that big of a deal; it clearly involved a death toll on a scale unprecedented in interstellar history.
Thus the reason I said "all things considered."
The Romulan Free State seems -- seems -- like something very formidable. And they had six years to prepare and evacuate from Romulus, which leads me to believe that the destruction wasn't as devastating as it could've been, with so much advanced notice.
I liken the Romulan Star Empire's Soviet Union to the Romulan Free State's Russia. The other remnants are broken up into smaller nation states.
General Nedar's fleet may have been, but we don't know if the rest of the RFS has access to that kind of firepower.
Who knows, Nedar (i.e. Oh) may actually be the leader of another faction competing with the RFS and equally trying to lay claim to being the "real" Romulan Empire...
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And as I said, the actual big point of that episode wasn't that kiss, but agitation on behalf of characters like Alexander (Michael Dunn) who at the time were looked down upon because of their size and had to strive to be noticed and regarded as being of worth, something that Dunn had to do himself, a lot in his life.
The future is in the choices we make, and, time and again in Picard, Jean-Luc chooses communication and reason over violence and fear. I believe Chabon mentioned that he tried to imply that the Dominon War profoundly influenced Starfleet and the Federation, creating an atmosphere of paranoia and aggression, and the Attack on Mars heightened those trends tremendously. This show is about finding a way back to the ideals that make Star Trek special.
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