Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[plynch]

If you start looking for it, I think you'll find episodes for almost any main cast member stepping way out of line (without an excuse such as an alien presence). Kim isn't really worse than most of the other main cast.

Just watched a TNG ep where Ro is in the landing party about to go in the transporter and says something really snarky after Riker gives a command or statement. He responds to her with a "What's that, ensign? I didn't quite catch that," in his best sarcastic/dad/teacher voice. She should have been sent to quarters until further notice for insubordination.

 

[Farscape One]

That was "The Next Phase", and he told them to beam over without phasers and she muttered, "This is not a good idea." Given what happened, she was right... though at the time, it can be considered insubordination.

 

[Oddish]

Given that the Romulans were enemies, it would have been reasonable for the Federation team to have phasers with them. So whether Ro was insubordinate or not (she didn't refuse the order, just said going unarmed onto an enemy ship was a bad idea), she was right. If nothing else, they should have had a few concealed Type I's (Starfleet's equivalent to the pocket pistol) along.

I think this was more just a matter of "Riker and Ro don't like each other."

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Okay, I've officially thought of this subject WAY too much, but I may have something

Now, this assumes that Starfleet and the Federation use currency and credits (which they DO, as Starfleet officers routinely spend credits at Quark's Bar and Dabo tables). I'm not getting into the whole "money doesn't exist in the 24th century" debate. I just take it as they get paid, they're just not motivated by money. If Starfleet officers get paid, then we can assume the Federation sets budgets for certain crew expenditures for their ships and missions and mission types. The Federation Council IS a governing body, after all. So, a Starfleet ship like the Enterprise may get a near unlimited budget for being on a deep space exploratory mission. But, Picard still has to answer to the bean counters when he wants to promote Worf (to a higher pay scale) or buy a redneck dune buggy to go off roading in.

Which brings us to Voyager. Voyager was a tiny ship of 150 or so scheduled for a roughly two week mission to hunt down a Maquis ship in a shitty part of the galaxy. Maybe this mission wasn't exactly glamorous or newsworthy enough to give Janeway an unlimited budget to spend on the highest ranking officers, which is why her first officer is a Lt. Commander and Operations officer is an ensign. More so, maybe this mission was hush-hush, since it involved former Starfleet commanders and Starfleet dropouts, so Starfleet didn't want a huge sum of credits on a sketchy classified mission showing up on the ledgers. Could be this two week mission was a test of her ability to work within said budget, and if she were successful in coming in under budget, when Voyager got reassigned after throwing Chakotay in the clink, they'd give her more money to work with.

But, that didn't happen and the Caretaker stranded them in the Delta Quadrant. Their Federation credits are no good in the DQ. As far as the crew knows, the ship will be out there for the remainder of their natural lives. But, maybe not. As soon as Voyager gets back to the Alpha Quadrant, 150 or so people are going to be wanting back pay for their time spent in the DQ. Captain Janeway can't be handing out promotions all willy-nilly because that'll bump up each promoted individual to a higher income. These would be 150 people that aren't in Starfleet's budget, because Voyager was declared lost and not calculated into the budget.

Also, these promotions wouldn't have gone through the official channels. What if Janeway promoted Kim to Lt. Commander, and when Voyager returned home, Starfleet brass decided he should only be a full lieutenant? That'd be awkward! What about Tuvok, you ask? Well, maybe his promotion was already in the pipeline when Voyager left DS9 and Janeway decided to go ahead with it, Starfleet bean counters be damned!

As you can tell, I've had way too much time to think about this today (slow day at work). All this is in jest, of course, but it's the only thing that makes sense for Kim not being promoted

 

[Oddish]

You did manage to come up with a possibility that wasn't in "No Little Box", and I thought that article was totally comprehensive.

However, Starfleet WAS aware of Voyager's survival as of the 4th season. So, it's not a matter of "we can't pay them because we think they're dead."

 

[Farscape One]

At the very least, Kim should have been promoted toward the end of season 6 when they got into regular monthly contact with Starfleet.

 

[Oddish]

He should have had a little box on his chair.

 

[DonIago]

^That really is the worst part, though. Paris is able to get demoted and re-promoted while Kim is still stuck as an Ensign? And his line about not finding a little box on his chair really is fourth-wall shattering. Is Janeway just ignorant of how the situation must look, or actually enjoying toying with Forever-an-Ensign?

 

[Oddish]

It's just bad, given that Janeway is supposed to be a competent commander who understands her people. There's a scene in "Nightingale" where Harry reminds Janeway (again) that he's still an ensign. She accuses him if bucking for a promotion and OF COURSE he backs down. Any competent junior officer, confronted this, is going to tell his superior what she wants to hear under those circumstances. But Janeway should have understood that the issue was not properly resolved, and taken the necessary steps to do so. A hollow pip on Harry's collar might not have changed his position or duties, but it might have helped him see himself as a trusted and valued member of the crew.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He should have had a little box on his chair.

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[jackoverfull]

The budget idea is very nice and works for the first seasons, but doesn’t explain Paris being promoted back to lieutenant instead of Kim and especially why Kim wasn’t promoted once contact with the federation was established.

 

[at Quark's]

The budget idea is very nice and works for the first seasons, but doesn’t explain Paris being promoted back to lieutenant instead of Kim and especially why Kim wasn’t promoted once contact with the federation was established.

Nepotism. Did his actions in Caretaker really warrant a field commission as Lt. (JG) to begin with? After all Janeway had served under Admiral Paris -probably Tom Paris came to be on board because of that connection in the first place- and she therefore knew he would read her reports on his son with more than usual interest should she return, and she seems the ambitious type hoping for further promotions (as evidenced by her being a vice admiral not long after she returned), in which case it probably helps to have a friendly Admiral enlisted....

 

[Farscape One]

It's possible Paris got Lt. j.g. as a field promotion because he was that rank when he got booted out of Starfleet. Chakotay was likely the rank he held before he resigned and became a Maquis.

 

[at Quark's]

^Possibly. Then again, that still wouldn't mean Janeway couldn't have made him a provisional Ensign, if she still wanted to incorporate him into Starfleet.

It might also imply that if you serve under Janeway, you might not easily get a promotion, but you also have to screw up really, really, really badly to 'earn' a permanent degradation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kim died in Deadlock.

The flesh muppet running around after that, calling himself Kim, doesn't get to be treated like a real person, or like all the other real people.

 

[plynch]

Re. Ro' insubordination:
Said in a snarky way under breath. Not respectfully addressing a senior officer. Should have been dismissed from landing party and a suitable replacement called for on the double.

I hate snooty, snide remarks muttered under the breath irl, just so you know.

 

[jackoverfull]

Nepotism. Did his actions in Caretaker really warrant a field commission as Lt

i think Janeway just reinstates Paris’ original rank.

 

[at Quark's]

i think Janeway just reinstates Paris’ original rank.

I was just being facetious. But, I still don't see any need for Janeway to do that rightaway after the first episode (or to even immediately reinstate him into Starfleet at all).

 

[jackoverfull]

I was just being facetious. But, I still don't see any need for Janeway to do that rightaway after the first episode (or to even immediately reinstate him into Starfleet at all).

well, she wanted to have an integrated crew as fast as possible, what with the maquis, eliminating the Paris issue seems wise.

Also, on a personal level, she’s telling Tom “I’m going to trust you and give you a second chance, don’t screw up again”.

 

[Oddish]

It's possible Paris got Lt. j.g. as a field promotion because he was that rank when he got booted out of Starfleet. Chakotay was likely the rank he held before he resigned and became a Maquis.

Chakotay was a lieutenant commander with 20y experience. Either LCDR or Commander would have made sense, and we couldn't really tell what his assigned rank was because he wore a "provisional" bar.

Kim died in Deadlock.

The flesh muppet running around after that, calling himself Kim, doesn't get to be treated like a real person, or like all the other real people.

You might like this; it plays with that point. It also plays with at Quarks' nepotism idea, though in a different way (given that Paris and Janeway... ah, shared something, in a previous episode).
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/wheres-my-box-a-short-story-with-5-endings.305612/

Re. Ro' insubordination:
Said in a snarky way under breath. Not respectfully addressing a senior officer. Should have been dismissed from landing party and a suitable replacement called for on the double.

That may be so. I was never in the military, so I don't really know what's considered insubordination. But I do know that ensigns are supposed to be promoted to lieutenant JG after about two years. Good ones get promoted faster; my dad was in the Navy, and he made JG in one year.

And Ro was still right.