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News Trans character announced

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Yeah, you're right about the "I" and "me."

Doing a quick look-around of the interwebs and the news seems to have gone over fairly well. A few rumblings here and there but nothing too crazy.

I'm not sure if any of the YouTube guys have chimed in yet... I kind of wonder if they'll even bother, because doing so would be such an obvious thing that you'd expect of them that they'll basically become a caricature of themselves (or I guess become even more of a caricature of themselves). Of course, the Ketwolski video may have stung a bit too so they may just be laying low for the moment.

Anyway, since Adira is on the promo art, and in a few of the interviews the focus seems to be more on that character, I suppose they may be featured more prominently on the show than Gray. Also, given the relationship with Stamets and Culber and actually being onboard Discovery...

We shall see.

They had an awesome robot woman on the show for two seasons, who got about three lines until the pretty blond lady under all that crap got a rash and had to quit the character, so they released the Kraken.

Just because these actors are being paid 80 grand a week to open hailing frequencies, don't expect any one to get any real mileage out of them.

However...

Michelle Paradise was the producer and lead actress on Exes and Ohs, a Canadian comedy about Lesbians. I don't find it surprising at all that she's Pushing boundaries in star trek that should have been pushed 20 years ago.

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I'm not sure if any of the YouTube guys have chimed in yet... I kind of wonder if they'll even bother, because doing so would be such an obvious thing that you'd expect of them that they'll basically become a caricature of themselves (or I guess become even more of a caricature of themselves). Of course, the Ketwolski video may have stung a bit too so they may just be laying low for the moment.
They will. They're aware of the caricatures they are. But they keep making money off the clicks, so they won't change. They've turned bashing into business. And a lot of their viewers let those YouTubers do their thinking for them. So their input is thoughtless instead of thoughtful. They're parroting opinions from people who don't even fully believe what they're saying themselves.

The worst thing is that when people look at YouTube videos from 2020 in 2040, a lot of people will think this is how we all thought. "Did people really think like that back in 2020?" So these YouTubers are making an entire generation look bad when it should really be just those YouTubers and their followers who look bad.
 
I imagine they paid royalties. Doesn't mean they are going to want to do it every time.
Perhaps when the franchise was run by a cheap ass like Rick Berman that was true. I don't think paying royalties is such a hefty thing now that these shows are gargantuan productions.
 
Ian Alexander's Twitter name is "IAN - ACAB", - which is a hip 2020 acronym for "ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS."

Actually, it's a rather old acronym- it was used by leftist punk rock enthusiasts long long ago in the before time.

#DefundBatman
 
And well Pike does need a crew for SNW...

I've been wondering if they'll have characters from The Cage, or maybe even Marvels Star Trek Early Voyages comics.

And that she likes burgers and milk shakes.

And Gilbert & Sullivan.

But always kinda weird that Dax couldn't have dinner or speak to the former misses without side eye, yet Ezri basically moved into Jadzia's old life... I guess maybe it was on because she was SURPRISE joined ?

Well, it's a Trill taboo, and none of the other main characters on DS9 are Trill, so why would they care? If some one from the symbiosis commission drops by she may want to keep her distance from Worf.

Still due royalties. Much like Nick Locarno became Tom Paris (same actor), and T'Pau became T'Pol to keep from paying those writers royalties.

So they paid to use her in the 4th season three parter?

For the first time, we have a showrunner who stayed with the show for an entire season. I’m hoping that alleviates a lot of the problems I have with the writing.

From your mouth the the prophets ears...
 
The only thing that might stop them is having to pay royalties to Rick Berman and the estate of Michael Piller.

Nick Locarno became Tom Paris (same actor), and T'Pau became T'Pol to keep from paying those writers royalties.

What did they do when it came to having Seven on Picard?

I think (hashtag not a lawyer) that it's different with series regulars, or characters created by the staff writers by and for the show. Hence Worf and O'Brien could swap shows but they couldn't use Nick Locarno without paying. I suspect that means Seven was not a problem (nor, in fact, Picard, Data, Riker or Troi) and Dax wouldn't be either. I still think it would be a silly idea though, and annoyingly small universe.



:rolleyes: Some people don't get it.
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I've said it before, but metaphor progressiveness is not half as impressive as actually being progressive. Oh there's an alien that in the right light you might argue is an analogy of a trans person! Or, you could actually have a damn trans person.

I'm pleased with this news - having trans and non binary characters, if they don't screw it up, might actually give Trek back a sliver of a genuine claim to being progressive again; black woman on the bridge in the 60s progressive instead of "we got one gay couple after fifty years" progressive.

Main concern? That the Trill element will allow a Rejoined style fake out.
 
I think (hashtag not a lawyer) that it's different with series regulars, or characters created by the staff writers by and for the show. Hence Worf and O'Brien could swap shows but they couldn't use Nick Locarno without paying. I suspect that means Seven was not a problem (nor, in fact, Picard, Data, Riker or Troi) and Dax wouldn't be either. I still think it would be a silly idea though, and annoyingly small universe.
This sounds like it makes sense.

I just thought about DS9 having Kor, Koloth, and Kang and I looked at the TOS episodes they were in. "Errand of Mercy" was written by Gene L. Coon, "The Trouble With Tribbles" was written by David Gerrold, and... shit, "Day of the Dove" was written by Jerome Bixby. Coon was Showrunner at the time he wrote his episode, I don't know if David Gerrold was on staff... but Jerome Bixby definitely wasn't.

So the DS9 writers must've had to have paid for the use of Kang and possibly the use of Koloth for the one episode they were in. But since Kor was created by a staff writer, they could use him whenever they wanted. And thus possibly why he was the one Klingon who wasn't killed off at the end of "Blood Oath". They knew they could use him in multiple appearances without having to pay Gene Coon's family.
 
There were different rules in the 60s - the way residuals and so on work today is very different. The only example in DS9 I know of that involved paying original script writers from back then is Trials and Tribbleations, but that's because they used portions of the actual script for The Trouble with Tribbles and the footage of the original actors. That one was a legal minefield, and David Gerrold even managed to manoeuvre himself into a cameo.
 
I could definitely see Jack Quaid in Picard as an older Boimler.

I'm not sure I want to see the poor guy suffer through that version of the Trek universe, though:lol:
 
I think (hashtag not a lawyer) that it's different with series regulars, or characters created by the staff writers by and for the show. Hence Worf and O'Brien could swap shows but they couldn't use Nick Locarno without paying. I suspect that means Seven was not a problem (nor, in fact, Picard, Data, Riker or Troi) and Dax wouldn't be either. I still think it would be a silly idea though, and annoyingly small universe.

I think this is right, but Locarno isn't a good example as he was created by Naren Shankar, who was a staff writer. Paramount wouldn't have had to pay royalties to him, and could have used the Locarno character.

The issue was that Jeri Taylor wanted Robert Duncan McNeil to play a character with a similar backstory, but felt Locarno himself was irredeemable. Hence the Paris character instead.
 
I think this is right, but Locarno isn't a good example as he was created by Naren Shankar, who was a staff writer. Paramount wouldn't have had to pay royalties to him, and could have used the Locarno character.

The issue was that Jeri Taylor wanted Robert Duncan McNeil to play a character with a similar backstory, but felt Locarno himself was irredeemable. Hence the Paris character instead.
I've heard both on Locarno - Robbie Duncan McNeill certainly tells the story about royalties for the character, but in fairness he may not actually know!
 
I think the twist is the Trill character will have had some connection to one of the current characters a long time ago before they all went to the future. The question is how do these characters service to enhance Burnham because I assume the show is not about to change much in that regard. The Trill host has a message only Burnham can figure out and They works with Stammets and Culver in order to figure out how to create the special weapon only Burnham can wield.

Jason
 
I've heard both on Locarno - Robbie Duncan McNeill certainly tells the story about royalties for the character, but in fairness he may not actually know!

Memory Alpha says it wasn't due to royalties, citing the commentary Naren Shankar did for the Blu-ray of First Duty. But I've not listened to it myself! I think the royalties thing was one of apocryphal things that gained traction.
 
Preface: I'm a white-passing bisexual binary transgender woman. I have privilege that trans People of Color do not have.

That’s the thing though. There could have been all sorts of lgtbqwtfbbq characters this whole time. But it wasn’t mentioned because no one cares about that in the future. What will be the point of telling us, the audience, and not mentioning it in the show? They’ll address it in some way. Imagine if someone had never seen this announcement. How would they know the characters are non-binary or whatever?

Barclay could have been transgender for all we know. Feel free to throw in any other character. There have always been non-binary and transgender characters in Star Trek. ;)

Hey, saying 'lgtbqwtfbbq' is insulting, even if you might be one of those letters you're still mocking an acronym that includes people who might be even more marginalized than you.

The point is to give people who are marginalized in today's world inclusion in our media and normalization in the eyes of the public. What matters first and foremost is the message we send to the modern audience about who people are. Transgender and especially non-binary are poorly represented in mainstream media, such as Hollywood productions. Many times we are portrayed by cis men or cis women on screen because of Hollywood's ingrained bigotry and transphobia toward us. I highly suggest watching the Netflix documentary Disclosure to learn more about this.

The Barclay example doesn't work because casting cisgender actors as transgender characters is simply insulting. This is also in the case of casting cis queer people as trans characters. It's incredibly insulting when cisgay men like Matt Bomer play trans characters because it implies that cis women are just gay men who transition to be with men. That's not the case whatsoever.

The Outcast was for many years just a dreadfully hamfisted attempt to do a "gay" episode. It failed on many levels. Strangely, it works better now when you look at more through the perspective of gender. Hopefully we can do better than that now.

I don't think "The Outcast" really works even as a trans allegory. The actress is still cisgender and the character is still an alien. Some trans kids might think "Oh, this is sort of like me!" but they're also going to think "Am I just some sort of freak imaginary alien?"

Who cares what it is as long as the characters are well-written and acted? Stamets and Culber have been handled (IMO) superbly so far, so...

Trans and non-binary people care. It is so difficult not just to find respectful depictions of trans and enby characters but also those portrayed by actual trans and enby performers. As a woman who is trans I only just recently began to receive mainstream depiction in media, like Lavern Cox in Orange is the New Black (where she plays a woman who gets put through horrible shit), Nichole Main in Supergirl (where she gets cisplained by cis characters, told not to be angry when treated like dirt, depicted in a straight relationship with a fucking computer, and finally is actually a fucking alien instead of a Earthling human). I think Sense8 also has a trans woman playing a trans woman (to say nothing of being created by a trans woman) but I haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. Trans women (and trans men) still have a long, long way to go until we have complete control over our media depictions.

From GLAAD:

"Since 2002, GLAAD catalogued 102 episodes and non-recurring storylines of scripted television that contained transgender characters, and found that 54% of those were categorized as containing negative representations at the time of their airing. An additional 35% were categorized at ranging from "problematic" to "good," while only 12% were considered groundbreaking, fair and accurate enough to earn a GLAAD Media Award nomination."

I hope Grey isn't the new Dax. It's just too lazy.

I don't think it's lazy but I do think it's very problematic that the first trans character in a series run by a bunch of cis people is being portrayed as an alien, rather than a human from the planet Earth. Really goes to show that cis people shouldn't be given the keys to the car.
 
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