TAS made real....

[Timo]

...Or then we can decide that Scotty said this was the first warp-driven Bonaventure, which leaves only your left hand tied behind your back. This is obviously an old ship, what with the "crew's descendants" bit - how old, we can pretty much decide on our own. And how experimental exactly starships would have been before Kirk's is also up in the air, yet the weirder, the better for the "Romulan War ships were really old-fashioned" interpretation.

Yet your ship doesn't strike me as being the very first of anything: there's wisdom and experience in evidence in the design solutions and the aesthetics already. But I'd certainly expect to see entire categories of systems there that Kirk's ship no longer carries, and the hatches and protrusions on the otherwise elegant hull are perfect for that.

Is there going to be engine glow? Ramscoop / fwd dome glow? Exhaust or vent glow?

...Auxiliaries?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

I have a general concept in my head that will have echoes of what we’re familiar with in TOS. No, the Bonaventure isn’t meant to be a test prototype, but she might have been the first of a series with a then new system in place.

Going back to “Metamorphosis” Kirk said Cochrane was the developer of the space warp. Since then FC interpreted that to mean he built and tested the first space warp prototype, but funded by who is left unknown. If we accept that as such that still doesn’t mean Earth immediately starts building warp drive ships in large scale. More testing and more prototypes would likely follow before larger scale ships are built.

Setting aside the whole Vulcan guidance which is so damned cute-and-tidy it makes me hurl. And having them land just as Cochrane tests his ship—yeesh.

The Constellation I designed and posted upthread is an intermediary design after the Bonaventure and before the ships of The Romulan War. I agree with Masao that Earth ships during the war would likely have been of simpler design for sake of mass production and reliability for their given roles at hand. Nonetheless things would be learned during the war that would be incorporated into the post war generation of ships to follow. Possibly it’s the ships of the war era that generally cement the twin nacelle configuration (with some mono nacelle exceptions).

 

[aridas sofia]

Interestingly, Cochrane is called the “discoverer” of the space warp.

“Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri, the discoverer of the space warp?” asked Kirk.

Almost as if it was out there somewhere, pre-existing, perhaps alien technology, and he found it. Not the way it later evolved, but certainly hard to say someone invented or developed something if they “discovered” it. Two entirely different things. The Wright Brothers didn’t “discover” heavier than air flight. They invented the powered airplane.

 

[Warped9]

“Discoverer” could also mean the guy who simply found a way to finally make it work. We have people today who theorize about FTL starflight, but no one yet knows how to actually make it work in practical terms. So maybe in TOS Cochrane is that guy who finally figures it out.

 

[aridas sofia]

“Discoverer” could also mean the guy who simply found a way to finally make it work. We have people today who theorize about FTL starflight, but no one yet knows how to actually make it work in practical terms. So maybe in TOS Cochrane is that guy who finally figures it out.

That is clearly the interpretation they went with. It’s just one that is hard to support with the dialogue. I think you might get away with saying he discovered the space warp much like Einstein discovered relativity or Newton discovered gravity, ie discovered the mathematical formulation to make sense of it. But that ain’t a test pilot, or an inventor. Of course, mathematicians and physicists generally aren’t as exciting as test pilots and inventors, so there you have your answer on why it is what it is. But it would be interesting to know what Gene Coon intended.

 

[Warped9]

I take it as Cochrane didn’t discover what a space warp is in theoretical terms—I take that was already known just as we know it presently—but he managed to engineer a way to exploit the science in practical terms. He “discovered” the space warp by making it work as a star drive—the time warp or space warp or warp drive.

 

[GeekFilter]

I've been thinking about the Bonaventure. It's no secret I'm not a fan of the design as is, but the vessel is prominantly mentioned in the episode so it cannot really be ignored (unless one envisions a live-action version of the episode where the vessel is never mentioned). That said my view is to try to come up with something more plausible that fits with what we do know from TOS and supports Scotty's refrences.

Scotty said the ship was the first ship with warp drive and it disappeared 150 years earlier. Okay, technically Zefram Cochrane's ship was the first Earth ship with a space warp drive. But maybe the Bonaventure was the first Earth ship with a more familiar warp drive system although by TOS era standards it was still a rather primitive setup and thus not conflicting with Spock's assertion in "Balance Of Terror" that Earth ships a century prior to TOS were "primitive" vessels (primitive being a relative term).

So that leads one into speculation as to what TOS might have come up with to depict a 150+ year old starship. I think it's reasonable to assume it wouldn't have looked remotely like the 23rd century Enterprise. And I am not going to use ENT designs as a reference point since those wouldn't have existed back in the day as reference anyway. Different creative teams from different eras with different objectives and reference points.

I might have something of a starting point since I have taken a stab at designing early 22nd century starships by extrapolating from some of Matt Jeffereies early conecpt sketches when he was working his way toward a final design for the Enterprise.

Although not specifically dated this was my take on an early to mid 22nd starship. Yes, it has three nacelles, but I reasoned this was an era (late 21st to mid 22nd) of experimentation when different things were tried in search of an optimal arrangement and configuration. I envision the Bonaventure looking smaller and more rudimentary than this.

Even though I am a big fan of the Bonnie and have done some extensive work on the gal, I like this a lot too and it makes more sense than the deign in the show. Even in TAS's own continuity it didn't make a lot of sense.

I think part of the issue is the Bonaventure wasn't designed for "The Time Trap" it was a reused design from the 100+ sketches that Bob Kline did for the derelict ship in the first episode.

 

[publiusr]

Are all of those sketches preserved?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Warped9, the designs I've seen on your thread is some excellent work. Very inventive stuff.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Interestingly, Cochrane is called the “discoverer” of the space warp.

“Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri, the discoverer of the space warp?” asked Kirk.

Almost as if it was out there somewhere, pre-existing, perhaps alien technology, and he found it. Not the way it later evolved, but certainly hard to say someone invented or developed something if they “discovered” it. Two entirely different things. The Wright Brothers didn’t “discover” heavier than air flight. They invented the powered airplane.

Yes, "discoverer of the space warp" is an interesting phrasing, one that struck me on a rewatch of "Metamorphosis" a few years ago. It makes it sound like space warp was some kind of natural phenomena that Cochrane discovered and then found a way to harness. I think I even started a thread about it here on the BBS. It's interesting to contemplate.

@Warped9, I'm with you in never liking the Bonaventure design very much. Not only does it look waaaaay too much like the Enterprise, it's just clunky. There's no grace to it.

 

[Warped9]

No matter what ship I design I like there to be some measure of dignity or grace or even heroism to it.

 

[Warped9]

A start.

Here is a basic quickly sketched out concept for the Bonaventure that is sticking in my mind. I'm still undecided whether to make it as a dual, tri or quad-nacelle configuration, althought I do rather like the vertical dual nacelle orientation for the sake of distinctiveness and simiplicity. I have tried ti incorporate some familiar visual cues to tie it to the TAS version of the ship, most notably the upper hull and the shape of the nacelles.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Cool concept. The profile actually reminds me a little of the Stargazer, even though I know this one has only 2 nacelles. It nicely melds Meni’s Bonaventure with established canon.

 

[Warped9]

It's a grey and rainy day here so maybe I can get some modelling started today.

 

[Atolm]

A start.

Here is a basic quickly sketched out concept for the Bonaventure that is sticking in my mind. I'm still undecided whether to make it as a dual, tri or quad-nacelle configuration, althought I do rather like the vertical dual nacelle orientation for the sake of distinctiveness and simiplicity. I have tried ti incorporate some familiar visual cues to tie it to the TAS version of the ship, most notably the upper hull and the shape of the nacelles.

that's a beautiful shape bro.

 

[Santaman]

I agree with Atolm, that is a great shape for an early ship..

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Thirded.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Warped9]

A quick look at how this is beginning to shape up. I'm kind of feeling my way along here. And, yes, I am working directly off my basic little concept sketch.

 

[publiusr]

Now that speaks to me.

The first real *ship* that is.

Phoenix I call a testbed, like the Wright Flyer (Bleriot invented the airplane).

 

[Henoch]

I bet this sauce detaches from the drive system to land on planet surfaces. Maybe?