Unless the transporter beam itself is used as the target? Lock onto that as your starting point and reassembled the human from there?
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
To be sure, Spock says nothing about beaming to a planet or a space station. He speaks exclusively of intraship beaming. And since he insists it is an issue, when beaming generally is not, it's logical to assume that it's an issue solely because it's intraship, i.e. for reasons unique to the intraship beaming situation.
So, what are our options there - in terms of Trek in general, since the episode itself doesn't offer many clues?
1) Beaming to or from a location a short distance away is dangerous, because the system gets inherently more accurate with distance (not completely unlike SARH missiles get more accurate with distance)? An unusual additional effort on accuracy would then be needed. But I think we have to call bullshit on that when the decrepit Klingon BoP effortlessly beams Kirk and Taylor aboard from something like two meters off the entry ramp.
2) Beaming through the strong walls of a starship is hell on targeting systems, and one has to guesstimate much better when the sensors just give weird echoes. This would work if the victim first travels from the pad to the hull via a cable and only then turns into a ghost that can waltz through walls. But how does one travel via cable if one isn't a ghost? Generally, when something goes wrong, the victim lingers at or near the pad (although most of those are dream sequences, to be sure).
3) It's generally not dangerous to materialize inside a wall, because the system automatically burps you out of there before you notice anything, but somehow this doesn't work inside a starship. This is the one issue Spock actually quotes, even if it's cut mid-sentence. But how would a starship be different from a surface palace or lair? And why isn't this an issue with alien starships, merely with the one the beaming is initiated on?
Timo Saloniemi
So, what are our options there - in terms of Trek in general, since the episode itself doesn't offer many clues?
1) Beaming to or from a location a short distance away is dangerous, because the system gets inherently more accurate with distance (not completely unlike SARH missiles get more accurate with distance)? An unusual additional effort on accuracy would then be needed. But I think we have to call bullshit on that when the decrepit Klingon BoP effortlessly beams Kirk and Taylor aboard from something like two meters off the entry ramp.
2) Beaming through the strong walls of a starship is hell on targeting systems, and one has to guesstimate much better when the sensors just give weird echoes. This would work if the victim first travels from the pad to the hull via a cable and only then turns into a ghost that can waltz through walls. But how does one travel via cable if one isn't a ghost? Generally, when something goes wrong, the victim lingers at or near the pad (although most of those are dream sequences, to be sure).
3) It's generally not dangerous to materialize inside a wall, because the system automatically burps you out of there before you notice anything, but somehow this doesn't work inside a starship. This is the one issue Spock actually quotes, even if it's cut mid-sentence. But how would a starship be different from a surface palace or lair? And why isn't this an issue with alien starships, merely with the one the beaming is initiated on?
Timo Saloniemi
If #2 was an issue - them beaming into the ship's corridor on the U.S.S. Constellation, (like they did on TOS - S2 - "The Doomsday Macchine"; or the Engineering section of the U.S.S. Exeter in TOS S2 - "The Omega Glory" or hell, right onto the Bridge of the U.S.S. Defiant (not to mention the fact that Sulu COULDN'T get an accurate fix on the exact location in space that ship - so how the hell did they manage with the Transporter in the first place) in TOS S3 - "The Tholian Web"...
Intra-ship beaming was obviously a solved science by the twenty fourth century according to just how many times it was used in TNG!
JB
JB
I guess that if Chekov can believe in a fictional brother, both Kirk and Spock can believe in a fictional technical difficulty. They'd misuse their imaginations to create a fear that has no true rational basis... We don't even need to think they'd both come up with the same fear, only that each of them has a fear of his own and both are disinclined to cross-examine the other to see if they share the exact same fear.
Then again, while intraship beaming was old news in ENT already, and was never considered to be particularly risky in that show or any other besides this single TOS episode, "Day of the Dove" does have the distinction of featuring intraship beaming while the ship is careening out of control at unsafely high warp. The ENT and DSC intraship beamings are at virtual standstill, and no TNG beaming involves explicit high warp or other uncontrolled elements, either.
Timo Saloniemi
Then again, while intraship beaming was old news in ENT already, and was never considered to be particularly risky in that show or any other besides this single TOS episode, "Day of the Dove" does have the distinction of featuring intraship beaming while the ship is careening out of control at unsafely high warp. The ENT and DSC intraship beamings are at virtual standstill, and no TNG beaming involves explicit high warp or other uncontrolled elements, either.
Timo Saloniemi
Not neccessarily a problem since they were beaming UP and INTO the transporter chamber
As I like to say, Transporters are farsighted. So intraship beaming requires making them squint.
Yup, proper spelling is important. But this story element specifically suffers from the fact that it is all the same: the transporter has already been seen beaming folks into and out of a really wide variety of places and situations, and it comes as something of a surprise that beaming within the ship herself should be in any way special in comparison.
Most of the make-believe problems we can come up with would seem to apply to both intership and intraship. The myopia issue then is one of degrees: the distance between the transporter room and engineering is likely to be quite a bit longer than the distance seen in ST4:TVH, even though otherwise one wouldn't expect the two machines aboard the two ships to be dissimilar...
Timo Saloniemi
Most of the make-believe problems we can come up with would seem to apply to both intership and intraship. The myopia issue then is one of degrees: the distance between the transporter room and engineering is likely to be quite a bit longer than the distance seen in ST4:TVH, even though otherwise one wouldn't expect the two machines aboard the two ships to be dissimilar...
Timo Saloniemi
This is very very trivial but I noticed in "Deadly Years" that Wallace started off with a pink/gold outfit then changed into a purple ensemble. Then after Stocker took control and Spock, Kirk, McCoy, Wallace went into sickbay to work on a solution she was wearing her purple outfit. When they had the collection of video of them pouring chemicals, consulting with each other she had changed back into her pink outfit.
Did they have time for that? Seem a lot of time wasting in this episode you know considering that everyone only had hours to live.
Did they have time for that? Seem a lot of time wasting in this episode you know considering that everyone only had hours to live.
Ladies Wardrobe is not a waste of time, it's a pillar of show business! Trained Starfleet personnel would naturally understand that.
HaHa a bit like how the Third Doctor in Planet of The Daleks was suffocating in the TARDIS and still had the strength to change into his purple suit of clothes!!!
JB
JB
Sexism is a pillar of show business, too!
I wonder if that was just a reflection of the shooting schedule or perhaps editing certain scenes into a different order than they were in the script.
I suspect the former, although that montage we get could have been, as you say, re-edited footage.
Sadly, I don't see the shooting schedule, call sheets or production reports in the Roddenberry finding aid.
The shooting schedule is in the Justman papers.
HaHa a bit like how the Third Doctor in Planet of The Daleks was suffocating in the TARDIS and still had the strength to change into his purple suit of clothes!!!
JB
"Always waste time when you don't have any. Time is not the boss of you." - 11th Doctor
In "Trouble With Tribbles" there seem to be a lot of Enterprise men lined up to get punishment for fighting but I think I only saw 4 in total fighting. Unless it was off camera
Not all the crew present got feature footage in the brawl, and some of the security were in that lineup, so they got their licks in where they could before it was all over. I bet the brawl spilled over into the corridors at some point. They usually do.
