The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[fireproof78]

Hey, we were just talking about how SG-1 is similar to B5 and/or DS9.

The problem is, we can't really go into it without going into spoiler territory.

I think I can safely say at this point in the series, but even earlier, I'd grown dispirited with the Ancients. Oma Desala's great and all, and she did make effectively the ultimate sacrifice to stop Anubis, and Orlin essentially killed himself to save Earth...twice!...but the "regular" Ancients seem akin to the Q Continuum as shown in VOY's "Deathwish". They don't seem to do anything but watch, and have forgotten how to live.

Which I think is the point. They strove to be beyond themselves and so lost part of themselves.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Without going into spoilers, does anyone feel like the Ancients were a missed opportunity?

Spoiler

We are told that ascension means achieving a higher plane of existence with a greater understanding of the universe. In "Reckoning", Daniel marvels that the universe and an understanding of the universe is infinite. But the show never really tries to explore what that means. Like what "meaning of life" stuff have the Ancients learned from being ascended? What have they learned about the universe? We are just told that the ascended Ancients want to gain a deeper understanding of the universe but we are never given any hints about what they've learned or what that knowledge has given them. It seems like the only thing that ascension did for them is make them completely uninterested in the "lower planes of existence".

 

[Astra]

I'm surprised and bummed by that. I've talked to many Farscape fans and a lot of those people were just really nice. I know these shows have their bad apples, (It's inevitable really) but this was the first time I've heard anything negative towards Farscape fans.

I feel like they got screwed over too, to be honest. They were basically told that their show had to end so that Stargate could go on as the channel did not have money for both. So I get that they were bitter about that and tried to make the best out of the situation. And of course if they were only there for Ben Browder and Claudia Black, they would have no interest in what came before and plunge through 8 seasons. But it did create a rift between old fans and new fans and I'm not sure how you could mend something like that.

One day I am going to watch that show. I have every intention to do so. The panel at the con was with Ben Browder and Claudia Black, and they played well off of each other. Another guest at that con was John Barrowman, being equally hilarious. All the Farscape fans said that now they want to watch Torchwood, and all the Torchwood fans said now they want to watch Farscape. I still intend to keep that promise. One day.

Not sure how the military advisor would have anything to do with that. Vala is not a military officer, and the intent of the scene was that she was acting inappropriately.

Was she called out for it afterwards? Or was it just ignored? I honestly don't remember. She may not be a military officer but like Daniel she is part of a military team.

 

[bigdaddy]

I don't remember ever reading that Farscape got canceled because of Stargate. Sliders got canceled because of SG-1 moving to Sci-fi. Farscape got screwed for a few reasons.

Romulan Spy, I completely agree with you on The Ancients. It's why I disliked Atlantis the further it went on.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the Ancients are a mixed bag but generally showcase the old adage of being careful what you wish for.

 

[Jayson1]

To be honest I don't see any problem with people watching just because they want to see Browder or Black. What's wrong with people enjoying a show for the reasons they want to enjoy it? I mean I enjoy tons of comic book movies and shows yet I have hardly read a superhero comic book my entire life. If someone back in 90's told me a movie would be made were Batman teams up with Spiderman it would have sounded totally possible because I didn't know what was Marvel or DC or pretty much anything in terms of details.

Jason

 

[Romulan_spy]

Honestly, I think Farscape got cancelled because it was too niche and too unconventional in its story telling. Personally, I enjoyed it but a lot of the episodes just seemed very odd and "out there". It definitely had a small hardcore fanbase but it was never able to get that large audience, needed to sustain the show financially.

 

[tomalak301]

To be honest I don't see any problem with people watching just because they want to see Browder or Black. What's wrong with people enjoying a show for the reasons they want to enjoy it? I mean I enjoy tons of comic book movies and shows yet I have hardly read a superhero comic book my entire life. If someone back in 90's told me a movie would be made were Batman teams up with Spiderman it would have sounded totally possible because I didn't know what was Marvel or DC or pretty much anything in terms of details.

Jason

I think it's just the feeling of disrespect of what came before. It's kind of like hopping on the bandwagon and making fun of the people who are driving that wagon. I would think you need to at least respect what came before. I mean that Janet Frasier story was depressing.

 

[David cgc]

I found the ink blot and the polygraph scenes hilarious. What are the correct answers to the ink blot test anyway. Vala was saying Kindness, Respect, and Courage and the guy was thinking she wasn't taking it seriously. I thought it was first word that comes to your mind and there were no correct answers.

I was just reading about ink blot tests recently. The trick is, it's like looking for animals in clouds; you're supposed to "see" a thing, a scene, something visual, and since the image is so abstract, the image you recognize in it is pretty much entirely based on what's going on in your mind. If Vala had been being honest, she wouldn't see "kindness," she'd see "a person giving something to another person," for instance.

Now all I can think of is that Simpsons scene where Milhouse's dad has to draw "dignity" when they're playing Pictionary.

Without going into spoilers, does anyone feel like the Ancients were a missed opportunity?

Spoiler

We are told that ascension means achieving a higher plane of existence with a greater understanding of the universe. In "Reckoning", Daniel marvels that the universe and an understanding of the universe is infinite. But the show never really tries to explore what that means. Like what "meaning of life" stuff have the Ancients learned from being ascended? What have they learned about the universe? We are just told that the ascended Ancients want to gain a deeper understanding of the universe but we are never given any hints about what they've learned or what that knowledge has given them. It seems like the only thing that ascension did for them is make them completely uninterested in the "lower planes of existence".

Spoiler

I do feel like Daniel's "meaning of life stuff" arc was pretty well resolved by the closing scene in "Unending," and, indeed, the episode as a whole. The thing about dealing with stuff like that in fiction is you can't really give a meaningful answer that isn't trite or cliche (maybe that's why Daniel only figured it out after Jack moved to Washington); it's very tricky to try and thread the needle of finding something transcendentally meaningful and nail it down in a story, at least as long as you're not trying to start a cult. Battlestar Galactica had that problem in spades, and while they tried to skate around it by having the higher beings in the background reveal their motivations through action, a lot of people were not satisfied by that and wanted a Star Trek-style, "a space probe collided with God" answer.

I do think our best chance to learn about the Ascended was the encounters with living Ancients on Atlantis, since they would've been, essentially, peers to them, but the writers seemed afraid of doing anything specific with them, even as we saw them more. It definitely is a space that's ripe for more exploration, but it'd require Stargate to step much further away from it's pulp, action-adventure roots and really commit itself to using the conceptual and character depth it had as more than embellishment. It's certainly possible that that could happen.

I'm extremely curious what they were planning to in SGU, just because setting up the overarching mystery as the search for God's Final Message to Their Creation seems like either a shoot-from-the-hip move that's going to definitely bite you in the end, or taking some personal epiphany one of the writers had had and saving it for the thesis of their television show, which is a baller move and would be spectacularly novelistic if it worked.

 

[Jayson1]

I think it's just the feeling of disrespect of what came before. It's kind of like hopping on the bandwagon and making fun of the people who are driving that wagon. I would think you need to at least respect what came before. I mean that Janet Frasier story was depressing.

I mean it's depressing in the abstract like a old person realizing a young person doesn't know how to use a old telephone but for people talking about the character I am sure they have no clue about the actual character. Fraser is just a name of a character someone was talking about. I think their is a difference between disrespect and disinterests or simply not understanding context or importance of something.

Jason

 

[Romulan_spy]

Spoiler

I do feel like Daniel's "meaning of life stuff" arc was pretty well resolved by the closing scene in "Unending," and, indeed, the episode as a whole. The thing about dealing with stuff like that in fiction is you can't really give a meaningful answer that isn't trite or cliche (maybe that's why Daniel only figured it out after Jack moved to Washington); it's very tricky to try and thread the needle of finding something transcendentally meaningful and nail it down in a story, at least as long as you're not trying to start a cult. Battlestar Galactica had that problem in spades, and while they tried to skate around it by having the higher beings in the background reveal their motivations through action, a lot of people were not satisfied by that and wanted a Star Trek-style, "a space probe collided with God" answer.

I do think our best chance to learn about the Ascended was the encounters with living Ancients on Atlantis, since they would've been, essentially, peers to them, but the writers seemed afraid of doing anything specific with them, even as we saw them more. It definitely is a space that's ripe for more exploration, but it'd require Stargate to step much further away from it's pulp, action-adventure roots and really commit itself to using the conceptual and character depth it had as more than embellishment. It's certainly possible that that could happen.

I'm extremely curious what they were planning to in SGU, just because setting up the overarching mystery as the search for God's Final Message to Their Creation seems like either a shoot-from-the-hip move that's going to definitely bite you in the end, or taking some personal epiphany one of the writers had had and saving it for the thesis of their television show, which is a baller move and would be spectacularly novelistic if it worked.

Spoiler

I agree finding "meaning of life" stuff can be tricky. And I am not saying that the show should have revealed the ultimate answer to what is God or beyond God or anything. But I just think that maybe they should have dropped a few ideas of what the Ancients were doing as Ascended.

I do really like your idea of having living Ancients on Atlantis. I think that was a huge missed opportunity on Atlantis. They teased us with The Return and then killed the Ancients off screen. I think having a real Ancients as a semi regular would have been great. But maybe the writers did not know what to do with such a character to make them interesting. More likely, they did not want a character that would make things too easy or spoil the exploration of Atlantis for our characters. After all, a living Ancients would know everything about Atlantis. There would be nothing on Atlantis for our characters to discover or solve on their own.

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly, I think Farscape got cancelled because it was too niche and too unconventional in its story telling. Personally, I enjoyed it but a lot of the episodes just seemed very odd and "out there". It definitely had a small hardcore fanbase but it was never able to get that large audience, needed to sustain the show financially.

This. I loved Farscape from the word go. But, it definitely is for a smaller audience, and it was getting more expensive as the series went on.

Also having Browder and Black on SG1 was a lot of fun.

I think it's just the feeling of disrespect of what came before. It's kind of like hopping on the bandwagon and making fun of the people who are driving that wagon. I would think you need to at least respect what came before. I mean that Janet Frasier story was depressing.

With all due respect I cannot agree with this. People like what they like and this attitude is like demanding someone watch the Stargate film prior to watching SG-1.

 

[David cgc]

The military advisor seems to be missing, otherwise the scene with Vala practically sitting on that senator's lap would not have happened. In general it does not shine a good light at the USAF anymore. And there used to be a lot of USAF members who were big fans of the show.

That actually does remind me of something weird. Atlantis generally seemed more "mildly military" than SG-1, to the point where I wondered if they still had their Air Force advisor, with one exception; in real life, when military personnel are out on a mission, they take the identifying patches off their uniforms (the patches are velcroed on, now sewn). They never did that on SG-1, but always do on Atlantis (which is a little funny, because the Atlantis mission patch has a unique shape, so it doesn't really conceal anything), and even did it when we saw SGC personnel in the SGC on Atlantis.

 

[Jayson1]

I think I saw them take those off actually on SG-1. They still would wear the same military outfits but the patches came off. Also Tea'c always covered his forehead though that always seemed unneeded. Just call it a tattoo.


Jason

 

[tomalak301]

I think I saw them take those off actually on SG-1. They still would wear the same military outfits but the patches came off. Also Tea'c always covered his forehead though that always seemed unneeded. Just call it a tattoo.


Jason

In Morpheus it looked like the patches were off. You can see where the patches would go at the end when Mitchell was telling Vala she couldn’t get one.

 

[David cgc]

Yeah, when they're going around on Earth where the Stargate is a secret (or they loaned clothes to someone who wasn't part of the SGC, like Vala), but I mean when they're going off-world, they always wear all their identification, while the Atlantis teams don't.

 

[Jayson1]

I think I might know the reason even though I had never noticed this before. Remember Atlantis is suppose to be a secret and people think it's destroyed. If people for some reason can identify the patch they will know Atlantis is still around. In theory but it depends on many people being familiar with earth people's gear so maybe not.

Jason

 

[David cgc]

I think I might know the reason even though I had never noticed this before. Remember Atlantis is suppose to be a secret and people think it's destroyed. If people for some reason can identify the patch they will know Atlantis is still around. In theory but it depends on many people being familiar with earth people's gear so maybe not.

I just checked, and they were removing the patches even in season 1.

 

[Jayson1]

I just checked, and they were removing the patches even in season 1.

The base was still a secret in season 1. Plus they knew they couldn't just bring everyone to the station to protect them because of only one ZPM and limited supplies.


Jason

 

[JD]

One thing that bothers me about "The Ark of Truth", to this day (no spoilers here), is that it raises what I consider a compelling moral conundrum but then throws it aside in the interest of expediency.

Spoiler

This is my one biggest pet peeve with The Ark of Truth. I really enjoyed it overall, but I really wish they had spent a bit more time morality of what the Ark did.