The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[Astra]

Oh that is quick, which is what I hate about later Stargate. Instead of using, you know, the name of the fucking show, they just have ships pop up left and right like nothing.

Yeah. This certainly wasn't the show anymore that I had signed up for. I loved when they were walking everywhere by foot. Through the Canadian woods
I am reading these later episode discussions now and realize I don't remember much.

Also later Atlantis became one of those shows where they never find the light switch and run around at dark ships where you barely see anything. I didn't like that either.

I wish Sci-fi waited. End SG-1 with season 8, do Atlantis for a bit, make a Universe miniseries like was the first idea, then launch SG Command, space things out, get new writers. If we build a fleet of ships then at least it was spaced out more.

And we needed someone asking the "how come" questions. Apparently before there was a "how come" room where plot holes were discussed and the writers sent back to do another draft. We didn't give enough credit to Richard Dean Anderson for what he did behind the scenes. After he left, the writers became their own producers and nobody questioned them anymore.

So I'm the only one who dislikes season 7? I'll go into why after Tomalak watches it.

It was the season where I almost quit, I remember not feeling the love anymore after having watched "Space Race".

every time I heard Thor and Asgard I kept thinking about the MCU and Chris Hemsworth showing up.

Heh, I have the same problem the other way around. Whenever I read posts about Loki I did not see Tom Hiddleston, I saw a grey Roswell alien

That kid was amazing as Jack. Apparently he had not watched Stargate before getting the gig but then they gave him some episodes and he studied Richard Dean Anderson and all his mannerisms well.

Then we get to the second part, and that hit me really hard. When Jack got hit, I was thinking well, maybe we won't know about his status until the finale because Richard Dean Anderson has looked for ways to cut back on the filming schedule. When we found out it was Dr. Frasier and that scene where she's saving the soldier's life, I actually started to tear up, and then I started to cry during the funeral scene.

Unfortunately, before I was able to watch the episode over here, there were heavy rumors about something would happen to Fraiser so even though it was not spoilered definitely, you knew to be wary and look out for something to happen.
And if you watch the episode that way, the ending is actually pretty disappointing as the whole episode long they make you think it has been Jack, and then it only comes as an afterthought "Nah, we were kidding you all the time, it was just Fraiser!" and I did not like that. I wish I had seen it unspoilered.

 

[The Wormhole]

if these Bugs are Prior made I think that might be a little lame. You can create a virus, create a cure, but you can't create a bigger virus and resort to bugs?

Another way to look at it, while tying into The Fourth Horseman story (sort of) is that the Ori represent the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Plague, Pestilence, War and Death. We already saw Plague, this is Pestilence, up next is War...

 

[Romulan_spy]

Another way to look at it, while tying into The Fourth Horseman story (sort of) is that the Ori represent the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Plague, Pestilence, War and Death. We already saw Plague, this is Pestilence, up next is War...

That's an excellent way to look at it.

 

[tomalak301]

Another way to look at it, while tying into The Fourth Horseman story (sort of) is that the Ori represent the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Plague, Pestilence, War and Death. We already saw Plague, this is Pestilence, up next is War...

I've heard about the Four Horsemen but I was not completely familiar with it (They don't teach that in catholic school or even talk about it during a homily at church). I looked it up just to read and gain some knowledge about it and yeah I can actually see that comparison. Looking at it from that angle, the bugs actually make more sense.

 

[tomalak301]

And if you watch the episode that way, the ending is actually pretty disappointing as the whole episode long they make you think it has been Jack, and then it only comes as an afterthought "Nah, we were kidding you all the time, it was just Fraiser!" and I did not like that. I wish I had seen it unspoilered.

That's why I try not to spoil myself too much. It takes the fun out of it, even though if the story is written well, you can still have an emotional response even if you knew before hand. I think the way they wrote the funeral scene (And then what happened in Ripple Effect) provided that emotional punch I was looking for. I think part of the fun of rewatching this series (And I will at some point, maybe after I rewatch Buffy) is going back and looking for all those little things that make things like Fraiser's death more meaningful. I think I might get even more out of this series on my second go-round. I know I've been in a minority thinking that Season 4 was a little inconsistent (And I've been reading various forums online, like Gateworld and Reddit, of people saying they loved Season 4) and I'm hoping my second watch of the series might improve my feelings on the season.

 

[tomalak301]

Crusade (SG-1)

And the day of Stargate transitional seasons begins with this episode, which was basically what Vala has been up to since Beachhead. I've got to say that was a damn good episode, especially the emotional sadness of watching Vala just sit out in the middle of the city with no food or water for three days. I loved how she was telling the story to SG-1 too. It was this light fun Vala-type personality story and the deeper she went into it the more darker it got, leading to the revelation that the Ori have another supergate and War with the non-believers will begin very soon. I wish Seevis and Denya had not been killed off right away but I get this feeling that if Vala is carrying a child of the Ori, she's pretty safe.

@Romulan_spy, you mentioned this episode a week ago (It honestly feels like a month ago) but I forgot the context of that discussion. What did you want to tell me about this epsiode?

 

[Romulan_spy]

@Romulan_spy, you mentioned this episode a week ago (It honestly feels like a month ago) but I forgot the context of that discussion. What did you want to tell me about this epsiode?

I think it was the idea that the show borrows a lot of imagery from the Crusades during the Middle Ages. We get a glimpse of the Ori soldiers that are wearing medieval style armor. And the Ori are launching a religious crusade very similar to the Crusades that the Medieval Catholic Church launched. I think my point was that the show was not bashing religion itself but using the imagery of the Crusades to criticize religious abuse and fanaticism.

And this episode is indeed a big Ori arc episode. It hints that all out war is about to begin. The Ori are not content just to try to convert the galaxy with Priors anymoe, they are planning a full on Crusade with ships. And this episode is our first glimpse at the Ori ships. We will see them again and suffice to say they are very powerful ships which should not be surprising since the Ori are Ancients with similar tech level.

The finale is essentially part 2 of this episode. It is a really epic finale that will set up some really big things for season 10. .

Click this spoiler after you watch the finale "Camelot":

Spoiler

The big battle with the Ori ships reminds me of Wolf 359. It is the same type of battle where a smaller superior foe just crushes a larger fleet, except this time we actually get to see Wolf 359. The Ori ships are like Borg cubes. For me, the battle is what really made the Ori look unstoppable to me. Even Asgard ships could not stop these Ori ships.

 

[tomalak301]

Camelot & Flesh and Blood (SG-1)

Have I finally come to see the power of the Ori or is there more. Those ships, which look a little ugly, are unstoppable. They cut through you like lasers, and even ramming the mothership into one of them didn't help. Now that I've seen @Romulan_spy's spoiler, I agree that was like Wolf 359 and we actually got to see it happen. I have to say though I'm kind of getting tired of the Ori being this unstoppable threat. It's like the writers saying what can we do to top an already invincible enemy and when F&B was over I was like, there's no part 3?

With that said, I am excited for Season 10 for two reasons. The first is Daniel and Mitchell already discovered where Arthur went in search for the Sangraal, so I hope that part of Camelot is touched on again. In fact, while the battle was most shocking, I found the Camelot part really fascinating, mainly because it fits in with that mythological aspect of Stargate. The second reason I'm looking forward to this season is because now there is a face to the Ori in Adria, Vala's daughter. She was very interesting and having gained as much knowledge as she has in the first few hours of her life (I loved that exchange between Vala and Daniel about that point), it is reminding me a little of Orlin in The Forth Horseman.

As for Season 9, I liked it. We met this powerful new enemy in the Ori, got a couple new cast members, and overall the episodes were good to excellent. I also liked that they did try to bring back some of the mythological stuff from the first few seasons with Avalon and Camelot and I'm hoping that continues in Season 10. I wouldn't say it's as good as some of the other seasons (Namely, 8,6, 3, and 2) but I'm enjoying this new Ben Browder era of the show.

Top 5 favorite episodes this season:

Beachhead
Ripple Effect
Avalon
Crusade/Camelot
Authur's Mantle

Can't believe I'm already in the final season of SG-1. Now I get to finish the Atlantis season tonight. Should be fun.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The first is Daniel and Mitchell already discovered where Arthur went in search for the Sangraal, so I hope that part of Camelot is touched on again. In fact, while the battle was most shocking, I found the Camelot part really fascinating, mainly because it fits in with that mythological aspect of Stargate.

The big mid season two parter "The Quest" directly follows up on the Camelot part. And while there is a controversial aspect of the two parter, it does answer a lot of big questions about the Arthurian legend. Personally, I love "The Quest". It has a lot of really great moments in it.

S10 also has the epic Atlantis crossover "The Pegasus Project" which is super fun. It answers some more questions and has one really awesome moment. When you see it, you will know what I mean. It is a great episode.

 

[tomalak301]

S10 also has the epic Atlantis crossover "The Pegasus Project" which is super fun. It answers some more questions and has one really awesome moment. When you see it, you will know what I mean. It is a great episode.

I've been looking forward to that one because it's basically the only "official" crossover between the two shows. I'm also really looking forward to episode 200, which was a big deal with fans when it aired. I think I'm just as hyped for episode 200 as I was with Buffy's musical episode last year.

 

[DonIago]

Camelot & Flesh and Blood (SG-1)

Have I finally come to see the power of the Ori or is there more. Those ships, which look a little ugly, are unstoppable. They cut through you like lasers, and even ramming the mothership into one of them didn't help. Now that I've seen @Romulan_spy's spoiler, I agree that was like Wolf 359 and we actually got to see it happen. I have to say though I'm kind of getting tired of the Ori being this unstoppable threat. It's like the writers saying what can we do to top an already invincible enemy and when F&B was over I was like, there's no part 3?

With that said, I am excited for Season 10 for two reasons. The first is Daniel and Mitchell already discovered where Arthur went in search for the Sangraal, so I hope that part of Camelot is touched on again. In fact, while the battle was most shocking, I found the Camelot part really fascinating, mainly because it fits in with that mythological aspect of Stargate. The second reason I'm looking forward to this season is because now there is a face to the Ori in Adria, Vala's daughter. She was very interesting and having gained as much knowledge as she has in the first few hours of her life (I loved that exchange between Vala and Daniel about that point), it is reminding me a little of Orlin in The Forth Horseman.

As for Season 9, I liked it. We met this powerful new enemy in the Ori, got a couple new cast members, and overall the episodes were good to excellent. I also liked that they did try to bring back some of the mythological stuff from the first few seasons with Avalon and Camelot and I'm hoping that continues in Season 10. I wouldn't say it's as good as some of the other seasons (Namely, 8,6, 3, and 2) but I'm enjoying this new Ben Browder era of the show.

Top 5 favorite episodes this season:

Beachhead
Ripple Effect
Avalon
Crusade/Camelot
Authur's Mantle

Can't believe I'm already in the final season of SG-1. Now I get to finish the Atlantis season tonight. Should be fun.

Given how contentious the later seasons of SG-1 have proven to be, I'm especially glad to hear that you're enjoying them!

 

[tomalak301]

Is there a “no spoilers for season 10” reason these seasons were contentious? I mean I miss Jack and Bald Teal’c as much as the next person (and I still think Reckoning and Threads was a perfect way to end the series) but it’s been a fun ride so far.

 

[DonIago]

I think a lot of it is a combination of the changeovers in the cast and people feeling the Ori weren't as engaging an antagonist. As you've seen, in their first season they're somewhat Borglike in their general invulnerability.

It's somewhat akin to concerns about Voyager encountering the Borg. They shouldn't be able to fight their way out, so if they do that successfully it's a WTF, and if they escape through non-combat means enough times, you start to wonder what happened to the "force of nature" that we first met in TNG. But also, SG-1 doesn't even have an Ori equivalent of Seven of Nine (usually)...you can engage the Priors, but for the most part they get as much characterization as your typical Borg drone.

Plus, as I said, from a 50,000 foot view, in terms of writing, the new arc is uncomfortably similar to the old one in terms of "SG-1 must find a way to resolve a conflict with a race of aliens posing as gods." They just upped the power level with the Ori.

One thing that bothers me about "The Ark of Truth", to this day (no spoilers here), is that it raises what I consider a compelling moral conundrum but then throws it aside in the interest of expediency.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Is there a “no spoilers for season 10” reason these seasons were contentious?

Other than the cast changes that you already know about in S9, not really. The major controversies with S10 would involve spoilers.

I've been looking forward to that one because it's basically the only "official" crossover between the two shows. I'm also really looking forward to episode 200, which was a big deal with fans when it aired. I think I'm just as hyped for episode 200 as I was with Buffy's musical episode last year.

Oh yeah, "200" is hilarious. So many great moments. It is full of great self-parodies and also pokes fun at scifi tropes and things we hate about blockbuster movies.

 

[The Wormhole]

Memorable dialogue from Crusade:
Teal'c: "You claim to have been impregnated without engaging in sexual copulation?"
Vala: "Yes, which I find very terrifying. Have any of you heard of something like this ever happening?"
Mitchell: "Well, there was this one guy..."
Teal'c: "Darth Vader."
Vala: "Really? And how did that turn out?"

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think a lot of it is a combination of the changeovers in the cast and people feeling the Ori weren't as engaging an antagonist. As you've seen, in their first season they're somewhat Borglike in their general invulnerability.

Plus, as I said, from a 50,000 foot view, in terms of writing, the new arc is uncomfortably similar to the old one.

Spoiler

My main complaint about S10 is that Ori are defeated with another deus ex machina super weapon like "The Lost City" and "Reckoning". Plus to make matters worse, the Ori are defeated off screen so the audience never even gets the satisfaction of seeing the Ori get destroyed. And then the movie "Ark of truth" does another deus ex machina super weapon again to defeat Adria and the Priors. Felt like lazy writing.

 

[DonIago]

Spoiler

My main complaint about S10 is that Ori are defeated with another deus ex machina super weapon like "The Lost City" and "Reckoning". Plus to make matters worse, the Ori are defeated off screen so the audience never even gets the satisfaction of seeing the Ori get destroyed. And then the movie "Ark of truth" does another deus ex machina super weapon again to defeat Adria and the Priors. Felt like lazy writing.

Spoiler: All Hallowed are the Ori

I have to admit, I kind of like that "The Shroud" leaves it an open question as to whether the device works...but seeing it work in flashback would have been quite satisfying. They could have shown Aadria's reactions as well. The Ori are dead, but now she's more powerful than ever!

It is a classic writing paradox though...once you create an enemy who's both unreasonable and unbeatable, how do you defeat them? It might have been nice if The Ancients had finally gotten off their asses (we do at least get some of that in Ark of Truth).

 

[Romulan_spy]

Spoiler: All Hallowed are the Ori

I have to admit, I kind of like that "The Shroud" leaves it an open question as to whether the device works...but seeing it work in flashback would have been quite satisfying. They could have shown Aadria's reactions as well. The Ori are dead, but now she's more powerful than ever!

It is a classic writing paradox though...once you create an enemy who's both unreasonable and unbeatable, how do you defeat them? It might have been nice if The Ancients had finally gotten off their asses (we do at least get some of that in Ark of Truth).

Spoiler

There is also the question of how to really portray the Sangraal weapon in a visually satisfying way. Do you just show some big wave of energy sweep over the celestial city in "Origin" and extinguish all the Ori "flames"? Would that be satisfying or would it just look too CGI?

Yeah, I do think it would have been great to see some epic war between the Ancients and the Ori. Maybe seeing thousands of "lights" swarm the celestial city and clash with the flames of the Ori would have been great.

But I agree with you that it is hard to write a good ending when the enemy is so unbeatable without resorting to a deus ex machina. I think B5 handled it well with the Shadows and Vorlons but it's hard to do.

 

[DonIago]

In reponse to the above spoilered comment, which somewhat compares SG-1 to B5, as a chunk of my own comments won't involve spoilers....

SG-1 would have been a very different series...perhaps better, perhaps worse...if it had taken the B5 approach of having the major plotlines figured out well ahead of time I suspect the S9 "reboot" might have never occurred, and the entire series plot would revolve around ultimately defeating the Goa'uld...or there might have been a more organic transition from the Goa'uld to whatever would follow them, Ori or otherwise.

I sometimes wonder how DS9 would have turned out if it had been planned more thoroughly from the get-go as well, though I love the series as-is.

Assuming that wasn't an option, it might at least have been nice if TPTB hadn't had to assume on multiple occasions that their current season might be the last one, and consequently tried to wrap things up by season's end in a manner that would be at least vaguely satisfying and/or pave the way for a film that would more properly wrap things up.

Spoiler: What do you want? Why are you here?

B5 certainly pulled a nifty plot twist when it turned out that the Vorlons weren't so much the "good guys" as simply guys with a different philosphy from the Shadows that they were equally willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce...lengths such as planet blower-upper guns.

SG-1 kind of parallels this with the Ori and the Ancients, except that the Ancients (with a handful of exceptions) never get invested in the struggle. The "real" Ancients never get a face (we only meet the exceptions to the rule). They needed their "Interludes and Examinations" moment; something to push them from being aliens we largely didn't care about since they were never going to do anything, to something that was either amazing and wonderful and could help Our Heroes, or something that could have proven to be different yet just as terrible as the Ori

What if the Ancients claimed that they wanted to defeat the Ori but lacked the power to do so, and the price of giving them that power was controversially high?

 

[Romulan_spy]

In reponse to the above spoilered comment, which somewhat compares SG-1 to B5, as a chunk of my own comments won't involve spoilers....

SG-1 would have been a very different series...perhaps better, perhaps worse...if it had taken the B5 approach of having the major plotlines figured out well ahead of time I suspect the S9 "reboot" might have never occurred, and the entire series plot would revolve around ultimately defeating the Goa'uld...or there might have been a more organic transition from the Goa'uld to whatever would follow them, Ori or otherwise.

I sometimes wonder how DS9 would have turned out if it had been planned more thoroughly from the get-go as well, though I love the series as-is.

Assuming that wasn't an option, it might at least have been nice if TPTB hadn't had to assume on multiple occasions that their current season might be the last one, and consequently tried to wrap things up by season's end in a manner that would be at least vaguely satisfying and/or pave the way for a film that would more properly wrap things up.

Spoiler: What do you want? Why are you here?

B5 certainly pulled a nifty plot twist when it turned out that the Vorlons weren't so much the "good guys" as simply guys with a different philosphy from the Shadows that they were equally willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce...lengths such as planet blower-upper guns.

SG-1 kind of parallels this with the Ori and the Ancients, except that the Ancients (with a handful of exceptions) never get invested in the struggle. The "real" Ancients never get a face (we only meet the exceptions to the rule). They needed their "Interludes and Examinations" moment; something to push them from being aliens we largely didn't care about since they were never going to do anything, to something that was either amazing and wonderful and could help Our Heroes, or something that could have proven to be different yet just as terrible as the Ori

What if the Ancients claimed that they wanted to defeat the Ori but lacked the power to do so, and the price of giving them that power was controversially high?

Spoiler

The show made it clear that our Ancients were too concerned with contemplating the meaning of the universe that they did not care about fighting the Ori which personally I think was a mistake. But maybe the writers did this so that SG1 would have to find a solution and not rely on just the Ancients defeating the Ori for them.

Bu what if the Ancients had decided to fight a proxy war too like the Ori, since they don't dare confront the Ori directly? So what if our Ancients had given us powerful ships that could stand up to the Ori ships? I think having that proxy war with the Ori helping their side and the Ancients helping us could have been interesting. Also, what if the proxy war is so devastating to both sides (the Ancients and Ori are equally powered and it's a hopeless stalemate) that SG1 is forced to use the Sangraal weapon on both the Ori and the Ancients and wipe them both out in order to put an end to the war and save our galaxy? That could have added a moral component.

I do think that Daniel's comment in Pegasus Project about not knowing what battlefield it would look like, could have foreshadowed the Ancients and the Ori actually fighting it out directly.