Hey, I never noticed that before....

[Dale Sams]

Yes it could. Flag officers who are qualified to command at sea do have authority over a vessel's commanding officer, even if the flag officer is only aboard as a passenger, US Navy Regulations Art. 1031 Sec. 1. A captain or below, even if senior to the vessel's CO, would not have that authority. Being a captain is a big deal, but being an admiral is a bigger deal.

The flip side of that is that if things went bad, the flag officer would bear most of the blame, too.

What could not happen in the USN is the situation in "The Deadly Years," because Stocker would not be qualified to command at sea.

I think, besides regulation, Kirk would be well served when he regains his youth in raking his bridge crew over the coals. Just as in Turnabout Intruder, some security guards should get demotions.

Deadly Years: "The fuck is wrong with you all??? use your heads!!! I don't care if its in the regulations, a Commodore orders you to violate the Neutral Zone...you don't just go along with it!!"

Turnabout Intruder: That dude who told Spock "You're as crazy as she is!!"

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here too:

In Way to Eden, when Sevrin is making his speech to Spock....nothing Sevrin says sounds particularly crazy, and its only started to be hand delivered to the audience when a Man Trap musical cue starts playing and Spock looks troubled.

But its hilarious when it switches immediatly to Spock saying to Kirk "Captain, Dr. Sevrin is insane."

I disagree completely. Here's some of the transcript:

SPOCK: What I fail to understand is why you disobey those orders.
SEVRIN: Because this is poison to me. This stuff you breathe, this stuff you live in, the shields of artificial atmosphere that we have layered about every planet. The programs in those computers that run your ship and your lives for you, they bred what my body carries. That's what your science have done to me. You've infected me. Only the primitives can cleanse me. I cannot purge myself until I am among them. Only their way of living is right. I must go to them.
SPOCK: Your very presence will destroy the people you seek. Surely you know that.
SEVRIN: I shall go to them and be One with them. And together we shall build a world such as this galaxy has never seen. A world. A life. A life.

Dr. Sevrin is delusional. He is convinced of demonstrably false beliefs, and impervious to reason. That's why Spock says he's insane.

 

[Maurice]

[...]Between shots of Kirk with his uniform "mirror switched"....during one of Chekovs excrutiating scenes, the camera switches to Spock in his quarters for about 1.5 seconds for no reason whatsover.

Huh? Where does that happen? And is it in the original uncut version of the episode or the mangled for syndication edits?

 

[Dale Sams]

Huh? Where does that happen? And is it in the original uncut version of the episode or the mangled for syndication edits?

In Auxilary Control about 35 mins in i think,

 

[Dale Sams]

I disagree completely. Here's some of the transcript:

SPOCK: What I fail to understand is why you disobey those orders.
SEVRIN: Because this is poison to me. This stuff you breathe, this stuff you live in, the shields of artificial atmosphere that we have layered about every planet. The programs in those computers that run your ship and your lives for you, they bred what my body carries. That's what your science have done to me. You've infected me. Only the primitives can cleanse me. I cannot purge myself until I am among them. Only their way of living is right. I must go to them.
SPOCK: Your very presence will destroy the people you seek. Surely you know that.
SEVRIN: I shall go to them and be One with them. And together we shall build a world such as this galaxy has never seen. A world. A life. A life.

Dr. Sevrin is delusional. He is convinced of demonstrably false beliefs, and impervious to reason. That's why Spock says he's insane.

So every pyramid power/ crystals healing/ toxins purging with hot tea believer is insane?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

So every pyramid power/ crystals healing/ toxins purging with hot tea believer is insane?

You moved the goalpost quite a bit there, so now I'd have to say it depends. If the "believer" is going to kill any number of people because his preposterous claim-- that comes out of nowhere-- overrides the known facts of reality, then I'd say his belief is a delusion and an earmark of insanity.

Sevrin knows he's a carrier. He knows what that means. But he displays an extreme cognitive dissonance. His mind has constructed its own false reality to wave the problem away. He's delusional, he's psychotic, or as Spock put it, he's insane.

I think what you were defending was Sevrin's back-to-nature jazz, but that's a separate issue. Another question is, why am I trying to "win" on the Internet? That's a dumb thing to do.

 

[Dale Sams]

You have a hard lip, Herbert. (J/K of course)


Something i didn't notice til the other day....is how little McCoy is in the ep. For a little while I was wondering if he were in it at all. Some situations would come up, and I'd think "OK, we'll see McCoy now," And nope. It would be someone else.

I know the episode was supposed to be centered around him and his daughter....did Kelly get miffed when it was changed and say, "Just give all my lines away too!"

 

[Maurice]

In Auxilary Control about 35 mins in i think,

Ah, 27:15 into the episode. I think that cut is what they call a "seagull" in the film biz: you don't have a workable shot to make an edit so you cut away to a seagull flying overhead or something. Maybe they excised a chunk or dialog or had to splice two takes together that resulted in a jump cut.

 

[alchemist]

Ah, 27:15 into the episode. I think that cut is what they call a "seagull" in the film biz: you don't have a workable shot to make an edit so you cut away to a seagull flying overhead or something. Maybe they excised a chunk or dialog or had to splice two takes together that resulted in a jump cut.

I took a quick look at the script and they rearranged a couple of scenes in editing, deleted a voice-over, and added a captain's log voice-over (this latter not covered in this discussion). Notably, the scene immediately before the one that starts at 25:44 -- that is, the scene that starts at 24:03 with a dolly pull-back shot of Spock inserting a tape into his computer -- occurs after it in the script, at the start of the Act III. In the scene that starts at 24:03, Spock is actually analyzing the material that Chekov had sent him from Auxiliary Control. Also, a voice-over from Spock, and perhaps a shot of him in his quarters, was omitted from the finished episode at the start of the scene beginning at 25:44. I think the omitted material at the beginning of the scene at 25:44 might make the short bit with Spock at 27:15 a little more understandable.

But then, I could be all wet from the seagull.

 

[plynch]

I

Ah, 27:15 into the episode. I think that cut is what they call a "seagull" in the film biz: you don't have a workable shot to make an edit so you cut away to a seagull flying overhead or something. Maybe they excised a chunk or dialog or had to splice two takes together that resulted in a jump cut.

It's to set up the idea that Chekov is working with Spock and gets yelled at, right? I think it's just cluing us into that so we know why he gets chewed out. How, by the way, is the whole ep on dailymotion without CBS getting on them?

 

[Commishsleer]

I

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here too:

In Way to Eden, when Sevrin is making his speech to Spock....nothing Sevrin says sounds particularly crazy, and its only started to be hand delivered to the audience when a Man Trap musical cue starts playing and Spock looks troubled.

But its hilarious when it switches immediatly to Spock saying to Kirk "Captain, Dr. Sevrin is insane."

This also has to be the worst edited (besides Alternative Factor) ep in the series. Between shots of Kirk with his uniform "mirror switched"....during one of Chekovs excrutiating scenes, the camera switches to Spock in his quarters for about 1.5 seconds for no reason whatsover.

Its not the first or last time Spock pulls some remarkable unexplained conclusion out of his 'hat'. And when he does this Spock is always right.

 

[Phaser Two]

I know the episode was supposed to be centered around him and his daughter....did Kelly get miffed when it was changed and say, "Just give all my lines away too!"

Well, no, but all of those scenes and lines went to Chekov, lessening McCoy's screentime considerably.

 

[Commishsleer]

Was watching I Mudd today and I wonder why they didn't just you know [ Norman out of existence in the 4 days he held the ship captive.
I mean if I was Kirk and for 4 days I had to come up to the bridge with Norman blocking my way, the ship under his control, it would have taken me about a day and a half before Norman would have been a heap of molten metal.
Kirk seems a lot more chill here than when the Riddler took his ship for a taxi ride in Season 3.
To me it seems ridiculous that they couldn't regain control of the ship after 4 days or that Scotty couldn't have phasered the Alice that dragged him off the ship.
Nevermind the logistics of Norman getting on the Enterprise in the first place.

Yet another episode where McCoy warned his senior officer that something was wrong but Spock ignored him. Perhaps Spock should have been on report for that.

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe the crew were really intrigued to meet whom had wanted to get hold of their ship and crew that or Mr.Norman really did have them at a disadvantage?
JB

 

[Mytran]

The episdode makes it pretty clear that Norman has rigged the ship to explode if he gets tampered with:

NORMAN: I am in total control of your ship. I have connected the matter-antimatter pods to the main navigational bank. A trigger relay is now in operation. Any attempts to alter course will result in immediate destruction of this vessel.
KIRK: Spock?
SPOCK: Confirmed, Captain. He's taken out all the override controls. If we tamper without knowing where the trigger relay is, we could extinguish ourselves.
...
NORMAN: I control the trigger relay, sir. I cannot be overcome by physical means, and if you attempt to use your phasers, the trigger relay will be activated.

 

[Timo]

Still, four days to overcome this obstacle is about a dozen times longer than John McClane or Jack Bauer would have, and somehow they always manage. And I sort of see Kirk as the Sledge Hammer type anyway: "trust me, I know what I'm doing" would be his attitude to everything, very much including defusing the nuclear explosive.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Howcome in TOS there were androids everywhere and by TNG Data was looked at as some kind of oddity and something rare? What changed?

 

[Timo]

People got bored with androids? It's not as if they are of any practical use - who would want to be replaced by a machine?

The thing about Data is that he's looked down as an oddity. People who interact with him tend to dismiss him, from cybernetics experts like Graves to Starfleet co-irkers. In all of TNG, the only one who thought Data was an impressive piece of machinery was an excitable country hick in "Ensigns of Command".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Was watching I Mudd today and I wonder why they didn't just you know [ Norman out of existence in the 4 days he held the ship captive.
I mean if I was Kirk and for 4 days I had to come up to the bridge with Norman blocking my way, the ship under his control, it would have taken me about a day and a half before Norman would have been a heap of molten metal.
Kirk seems a lot more chill here than when the Riddler took his ship for a taxi ride in Season 3.
To me it seems ridiculous that they couldn't regain control of the ship after 4 days or that Scotty couldn't have phasered the Alice that dragged him off the ship.
Nevermind the logistics of Norman getting on the Enterprise in the first place.

Yet another episode where McCoy warned his senior officer that something was wrong but Spock ignored him. Perhaps Spock should have been on report for that.

Norman said, "... if you attempt to use your phasers, the trigger relay will be activated," and the ship would be destroyed. Spock confirmed that Norman could have installed the trigger relay and that the antimatter pods were under Norman's control. It seems clear enough.

 

[Dale Sams]

Howcome in TOS there were androids everywhere and by TNG Data was looked at as some kind of oddity and something rare? What changed?

Anything that can be argues to death is not an android. Hell, its less effective then Alexa.