Spoilers On Seven and sexuality

[cooleddie74]

TOS and TAS told us that Kirk had no time for any meaningful relationships and that nothing ever seemed to come from them. TWOK taught us he not only fell hard for someone but had a son with them.

Does that make Kirk inconsistently written? No. It just means he never mentioned Carol or David in TOS or TAS.

 

[Guy Gardener]

@Admiral Jean-Luc Picard Voyager portrayed Seven as someone just taking the first steps of exploring her sexuality. There was enough of a vibe between Seven and Janeway that Seven has been a queer icon for decades. That she married Chakotay in one timeline doesn't definitively prove anything at all. A lot of people discover their true sexuality later in life. Maybe she goes both ways. Who knows?

You say, "write it into the show", but that's not the right approach to take. That's making a sign with an arrow and saying "look here, look what we did!" THAT'S bad writing. The fact that it's understated to the point that it's just considered normal is a much better way to approach it.

Janeway bullied Ryan.

Ryan was a victimized tragic mess living in fears and tears.

That was the vibe.

I mistook that vibe for a maternal connection, so I got it wrong too.

 

[SolarisOne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

It's almost as if we don't exist.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

How the gender of your first crush has to determine your sexual orientation is beyond me. Particularly when you've been 'romantically' coached by... The Doctor. Bless him, but he was not very competent AND biased, as he was in love with her.

Amazing what folks have conniptions about. Women holding hands. What's next, snogging, having opinions, not needing men in order to be fulfilled in their relationships? Before you know it, dogs and cats living together.

For some reason, I had to think of this:

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[ThreeEdgedSword]

Janeway bullied Ryan.

Ryan was a victimized tragic mess living in fears and tears.

That was the vibe.

I mistook that vibe for a maternal connection, so I got it wrong too.

Actually, I never got that vibe (and at the time, didn't know of their private conflicts). They seemed like mentor/ student and friends with strong vibes of affection and mutual respect to me. So when I heard about the issues behind the scenes, I got a whole new admiration for their professionalism, particularly Jeri's.

 

[Rainard Fox]

Things change. They always do.

Things can change. They don't have to change.

For somebody "to change" means try new arts or jobs, for somebody it means search for new relationship or identity, for somebody means due hair and make tattoo, for somebody try alcohol and drugs. It doesn't mean the same person should have intentions to try it all. And it doesn't mean that all the fans happy to see all the changes.

I appreciate Seven is being a vigilante now, but I'm not excited of drunken Seven. It's a new stereotype that cool female character have to drink like a fish, Jessica Jones, Starback, Valkyrie... well, now Seven is stereotypical modern female character. Honestly if I didn't watch VOY, I wouldn't understand what is interesting or special in this character at all.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Things can change. They don't have to change.

That way lies moribund story telling.

For somebody "to change" means try new arts or jobs, for somebody it means search for new relationship or identity, for somebody means due hair and make tattoo, for somebody try alcohol and drugs. It doesn't mean the same person should have intentions to try it all.

That's all rambling.

And it doesn't mean that all the fans happy to see all the changes.

The number of happy fans doesn't matter to the story telling at all.

I appreciate Seven is being a vigilante now, but I'm not excited of drunken Seven. It's a new stereotype that cool female character have to drink like a fish, Jessica Jones, Starback, Valkyrie... well, now Seven is stereotypical modern female character. Honestly if I didn't watch VOY, I wouldn't understand what is interesting or special in this character at all.

Drunken Seven, where did that happen? Drink like a fish, when did Seven do that?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I hate to be a buzzkill, but isn't the topic about wether Seven is straight or lesbian? I maintain that Voyager portrayed her as straight to the extent of having MARRIED Chakotay! Admiral Janeway got Voyager home early, landing us in the Picard timeline. 20 years later, and she is bi or lesbian, because she "held hands" with a woman? Even if that is intended... It's inconsistent with source material, and it's not built up to within the Picard show.

If Seven likes women, write it into the show. We need something more than, because... That is lazy writing. It's mostly because of Voyager's finale that I onject to this on the basis of, it is inconsistent.

People have married, had kids and realised they're gay later (including a friend of mine who realised in her late 30's!). That said, I assume Seven's bi or pansexual.

 

[Rainard Fox]

The number of happy fans doesn't matter to the story telling at all.

When why so many demands to do something with Seven to make her more representative character to someone? Her modern changing is a fanservice the same way that her catsuit before.

Drunken Seven, where did that happen? Drink like a fish, when did Seven do that?

It's a canon now...
https://theblast.com/115717/jerri-ryans-new-seven-of-nine-is-a-hard-drinking-female-terminat

 

[Rainard Fox]

People have married, had kids and realised they're gay later (including a friend of mine who realised in her late 30's!).

Is it obligatory for everybody?

People have married, had kids and realised they're gay later (including a friend of mine who realised in her late 30's!). That said, I assume Seven's bi or pansexual.

Someone insists Seven is gay, you assume "bi or pansexual", for another person it could be a big difference between bi and pansexual, not to mention the gap between gay and bi. And everyone want to have Seven as a represent of their group. What to do for no one was offended?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Is it obligatory for everybody?

Excuse me?

Someone insists Seven is gay, you assume "bi or pansexual", for another person it could be a big difference between bi and pansexual, not to mention the gap between gay and bi. And everyone want to have Seven as a represent of their group. What to do for no one was offended?

This isn't about representing groups, it's about taking the screen evidence and extrapolating likely scenarios. She had a relationship with Axium. She had a relationship with Chakotay. It's heavily implied she had one with Bjayzal and they hint at one with Raffi at the end. Therefore she could be gay and come to that realisation later in life, she could be bisexual or pansexual.

It's a TV show, if you get worked up over a character's sexuality, you're watching it wrong.

 

[Gov Kodos]

When why so many demands to do something with Seven to make her more representative character to someone? Her modern changing is a fanservice the same way that her catsuit before.

No, it isn't fanservice. It's character development.

It's a canon now...
https://theblast.com/115717/jerri-ryans-new-seven-of-nine-is-a-hard-drinking-female-terminat

No it's not. Having a couple of drinks doesn't make her a drunkard or mean that she drinks like a fish.

 

[NCC-73515]

Is it obligatory for everybody?

Yes. You better get started.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I hate to be a buzzkill, but isn't the topic about wether Seven is straight or lesbian? I maintain that Voyager portrayed her as straight to the extent of having MARRIED Chakotay! Admiral Janeway got Voyager home early, landing us in the Picard timeline. 20 years later, and she is bi or lesbian, because she "held hands" with a woman? Even if that is intended... It's inconsistent with source material, and it's not built up to within the Picard show.

If Seven likes women, write it into the show. We need something more than, because... That is lazy writing. It's mostly because of Voyager's finale that I onject to this on the basis of, it is inconsistent.

It's not lazy writing... at least not in my opinion. It's the very beginning of the development of a set of characters for which the series has only just begun. By all accounts it seems that Seven is going to be a main cast or frequently recurring character going forward, which means continued development for her character, as well as the others.
Aside from the intricacies of the character being pan or bi (which has been discussed thoroughly in this thread), this is nothing like the scenario in VOY, in terms of series timeframe, in which the relationship between C7 occurred toward the very end of a series completing a 7-year run....
Meanwhile, here we have a show in its infancy, hinting at things to come (that have not yet had the chance to be fleshed out because... logistics) and viewers complain that there is no development.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Honestly if I didn't watch VOY, I wouldn't understand what is interesting or special in this character at all.

You are comparing the development of a character over 4 seasons to the representation of said character over the course of the first season of a different show (that is supposed to occur a couple of decades later). And that character didn't even appear in all s1 eps. Give it a little time. Decent character development is gradual... it doesn't appear in canned format for all to see up front.

 

[Rainard Fox]

Yes. You better get started.

Looks like they pretend I'm not exist at all...

 

[Guy Gardener]

When why so many demands to do something with Seven to make her more representative character to someone? Her modern changing is a fanservice the same way that her catsuit before.

It's a canon now...
https://theblast.com/115717/jerri-ryans-new-seven-of-nine-is-a-hard-drinking-female-terminat

You don't know how canon works.

 

[Rainard Fox]

You are comparing the development of a character over 4 seasons to the representation of said character over the course of the first season of a different show (that is supposed to occur a couple of decades later). And that character didn't even appear in all s1 eps. Give it a little time. Decent character development is gradual... it doesn't appear in canned format for all to see up front.

Nope. It took 2,5 episodes of VOY to me to love Seven of Nine for years.
In PIC the same was with Hugh. On the first episode with his participation I was intrigued, on second became a fan. I didn't see him in TNG before.
The same was with Spock in TOS.
"Friends are friends, no matter how long you know them". (c)

 

[Danja]

Janeway bullied Ryan.

Ryan was a victimized tragic mess living in fears and tears.

That was the vibe.

I mistook that vibe for a maternal connection, so I got it wrong too.

Seven of Nine = Character
Jeri Ryan = Actress

Kathryn Janeway = Character
Kate Mulgrew = Actress


Let's not confuse things.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seven of Nine = Character
Jeri Ryan = Actress


Let's not confuse the two.

Her performance might have been different if her workplace was not hostile and toxic.