Because fans are petty creatures not getting their whiny ways. People who simply enjoy Star Trek just go 'that looks shiny' and move on. They are adults waiting for an actual new season to have feelings about instead of pre-conceived notions.
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- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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Because fans are petty creatures not getting their whiny ways. People who simply enjoy Star Trek just go 'that looks shiny' and move on. They are adults waiting for an actual new season to have feelings about instead of pre-conceived notions.
What you just described was Odo and yes I think he did a much better job of a character that doesn't fully understand emotions and is kind stoic but also vunerable. I am saying that this was a mistake to build a series lead around when you do want something a little bigger or you want a actor with Stewarts range if you want to go a little more serious.
Jason
Actually has more to do with nothing else really new to talk about the show so some 1 minute thing with a flag is really just a conversation starter to talk about what kind of symbolism is being displayed. The symbolism is Burnham will be trying to raise the Federation back to life. Burnham being the only character in the picture represents this is going to be a yet another personal destiny thing. Her new hair symbolizes some kind of emotional change within the character. The tattered Flag represents the state of the Federation. The barren world represents her loneliness in this tasks which means she might be separated for awhile from the crew and also how the future is now a blank slate and the AQ is now a hostile environment. Also no white men in pic represents their desire for white genocide of course.
Jason
Nah, I don't need to be told by you what I'm describing. And Odo had a great deal of emotional awareness and we see him get emotional all the time. Burnham was actively taught as a child to suppress her emotions to fit into vulcan culture and now has difficulty expressing them. Big difference. I think it's ironic that you insinuate that it's a bad idea to have a lead character who is stoic and use Stewart as an example. Picard is the epitome of stoicism and he also struggled with being emotional especially during the early seasons of TNG.
Picard is also played by Patrick Stewart. She does not have his range or talent so your asking a lot of a actor to do something they aren't going to be good at. She is not a good fit for the role so if you really want to cast her then maybe you should alter the role to something that better fits her. Look at Jadzia on DS9. They were trying to make her Spock early on. It wasn't working. So they changed the character to be more of a free spirit and the character improved. Her acting also improved. From what I have seen from her she is at her best when she is upset and angry. So maybe they should have made more of that. A ticking time bomb with a temper who goes off at anytime but has a deep pain inside. Not to mention she looks like she can kick ass. She would be a good action lead so maybe the show should use more of that as well.
Jason
I have no idea what those two things are.
I think people are so defensive of Burnham because the year is 2020 and she's a Strong Female Character™, and black. So to a lot of people that's instantly worthy of praise, for those facts alone. Strong black female characters are of course fine/good, it's just that this one happens to be an annoying strong female character that the universe seems to revolve around and who's played by an actress with dubious ability, to put it politely.
Watch her react to a stressful or shocking moment...
Patrick Stewart is 100x the actor SMG is. Slight difference there.
And that's fine if that is your opinion. Mine is she is engaging and enjoyable. That she is black is a bonus and is not the reason I praise her.
This I agree. People each have their own opinions. No need to fight over them. Ever opinion is equal. You like Burnham. I dislike Burnham. You still like VCR tapes. I really only want blue rays and am willing to settle for dvd's. You like working hard for well earned money. I believe it's fine to run a 20 year old con selling fake insurance policies to the elderly. As you see all opinions are always equal in all ways, all the time.
Jason
I have a more basic explanation. It'll blow your mind. Get this. Check this out.
1) If you go into the TOS Forum and bash Kirk, fans in that forum will come to his defense.
2) If you go into the TNG Forum and bash Picard, fans in that forum will come to his defense.
3) If you go into the DS9 Forum and bash Sisko, fans in that forum will come to his defense.
4) If you go into the VOY Forum and bash Janeway, fans in that forum will come to her defense.
5) If you go into the ENT Forum and bash Archer, fans in that forum will come to his defense.
6) If you go into the DSC Forum and bash Burnham, fans in this forum will come to her defense.
I know! Right? It's amazing stuff! So shocking! That fans of a show would be also be fans of the main character. Can't believe it...
But, now I really want to do all those things...
Quite the contrary, I suspect if Michael Burnham were a white male and played by an actor who really was terrible or "overacted" there wouldn't be half as many complaints online on the matter as there currently are.
Not in Star Trek. Everthing is Star Trek is fought over for decades. People still haven't had their last laughs yet with Wesley Crusher and Neelix. Good gracious. People are going to be calling him the annoying creepy maybe pedophile for another 30 years. The positive I have always seen in the whole Burnham debate is it has always been limited to the character of Burnham. Nobody really goes hard on SMG as person. Just her acting talents. Compare that to someone like say Kathleen Kennedy where you can see some of the criticism gets way more personal in terms of who she is as a person.
Jason
I think Burnham's acted less trying-to-be Vulcan-like as the series has gone on. Possibly by design. In the flashback in "Battle at the Binary Stars", when Burnham first boards the Shenzhou, she's extremely Vulcan-like. She's less Vulcan like during the "present" scenes in "The Vulcan Hello" and "Battle at the Binary Stars". Six months later, after being in prison for all of that time, she just comes across as a Human who doesn't to make friends in "Context Is for Kings", but also isn't someone who will let someone like Stamets undervalue her. By the time of "Lethe", Tilly has begun to rub off on her and then she becomes attracted to Tyler. So I'd say she doesn't feel very Vulcan from that point on, unless it's to impress Sarek or show off in front of him.
I guess Sarek just has that kind of effect on his children. Spock also changed his behavior in "Journey to Babel" when Sarek was around and tried be an ultra-rigid "More Vulcan Than Vulcan" as opposed to just his regular mode of a Vulcan trying hard not to let it show he was becoming more Human.
I guess Sarek just has that kind of effect on his children. Spock also changed his behavior in "Journey to Babel" when Sarek was around and tried be an ultra-rigid "More Vulcan Than Vulcan" as opposed to just his regular mode of a Vulcan trying hard not to let it show he was becoming more Human.
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What really kills Burnham are the terrible monolgue narrations they often put in episodes and when they try to make it seem like she is super wise and filled with all this great wisdom. Maybe they should have just went with personal logs and have her talk about real things people think about in ways we really think about them. Reminds of something I once heard about writing characters who suppose to be smart or wise. just because the character is suppose to be those things, doesn't mean the writer is those things so then they have to fake it and then people can sort of tell.
One thing Trek has often had but has sort of gone away from starting maybe even as far back as later season Voyager is they often have observations that people can relate to and understand the meaning. Kirks "I need my pain" or Quark telling explaining why the Maquis were acting illogical to the Vulcan in jail with him. Trek has done some good things since then. I like the later seasons of Enterprise, loved the Kelvinverse and liked Picard very much and even find moments in Discovery but it really has been lacking in those special moments that connect to people IMO and has something they really relate to. Sometimes even in bad episodes. Heck one of the worst episodes ever is the DS9 ep were Quark dresses up as a woman but even it made a good point about how sexism is just not good business because your limiting potential customers by taking away their spending potential by oppressing them. Sometimes they try but even Picard only had one truly great Picard moment that felt like classic Picard and that was his tv(I know I know) interview were he lashes out against the unwise interviewer. They do touch on a few other things which is why I do like the show what with Raffi's drug problem and how it's effected her relationship with her son and what it's like to loose a child with Riker and Troi and even doing a pretty good job of depicting real childlike behavior with their daughter. Best use of a Trek kid since Jake and Nog.
Jason
One thing Trek has often had but has sort of gone away from starting maybe even as far back as later season Voyager is they often have observations that people can relate to and understand the meaning. Kirks "I need my pain" or Quark telling explaining why the Maquis were acting illogical to the Vulcan in jail with him. Trek has done some good things since then. I like the later seasons of Enterprise, loved the Kelvinverse and liked Picard very much and even find moments in Discovery but it really has been lacking in those special moments that connect to people IMO and has something they really relate to. Sometimes even in bad episodes. Heck one of the worst episodes ever is the DS9 ep were Quark dresses up as a woman but even it made a good point about how sexism is just not good business because your limiting potential customers by taking away their spending potential by oppressing them. Sometimes they try but even Picard only had one truly great Picard moment that felt like classic Picard and that was his tv(I know I know) interview were he lashes out against the unwise interviewer. They do touch on a few other things which is why I do like the show what with Raffi's drug problem and how it's effected her relationship with her son and what it's like to loose a child with Riker and Troi and even doing a pretty good job of depicting real childlike behavior with their daughter. Best use of a Trek kid since Jake and Nog.
Jason
Maybe 20 years ago, but not in 2020. These days it's practically an embarrassment for a straight white male to be cast.
Well, shit. What an injustice. When will the straight white male finally have the day he deserves?
Stop putting words in my mouth.
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