Spoilers On Seven and sexuality
- Thread starter rfmcdpei
- Start date
In the original timeline, on Voyager for another 15 years, or at least until either of them died, since they both did die... Chakotay wasn't the worst choice.
(The worst choice was Kim.)
In the new timeline, where young 7 and young Chuckles both make it home 15 years early, hours after their first date... Was it their first date?
Their dating pool just grew by 90 trillion Federation citizens.
(The worst choice was Kim.)
In the new timeline, where young 7 and young Chuckles both make it home 15 years early, hours after their first date... Was it their first date?
Their dating pool just grew by 90 trillion Federation citizens.
5 gay characters in the space of two crews. With a "non binary" on the way in season 3 of Discovery.
That kind of shoehorning.
4 people in 2 crews.
Or 5 people in 3 crews, since Seven counts as a Voyager character.
Kes had a threesome, but she was mind controlled. Although moments after experiencing sex with a woman, even as a passenger, she ratified the breakup with Neelix that the Warlord Tieran initiated.
6 people in 3 crews.
Great spin.
Why are we talking about Voyager? A show from 25 years ago?
Of the two crews in Discovery and Picard, the two modern Trek shows, 5 characters are gay. If that isn't shoehorned I don't know what is.
So, the nonexistent kind. Got it.
The only spin I've seen so far has been in your posts.
BINGO!
(Well, at least we've moved this out of the Episode 8 thread...)
Hey come on!
Chakotay may have the charisma of a plank of wood. But that of a very attractive plank of wood.
As for Raffi - I never really got warm with her character. Part of it is the acting - she seems the kind of person that's always 2 inch too close when talking to you (which is honestly kind of realistic for a former addict). But also hee backstory - I always hate the "conspiracy nuts" in fiction (especially that they always got proven right). Frankly - it's the combination between these two types that makes me wary of Raffi. She portrays a realistic character (at least for present day - not so much for the TNG utopia), but not one I that I like.
Also one where I think the arc should be about overcoming and bettering yourself - not one of "being proven right all along".
Because they at least gave them some scenes to interact together before hooking up? Why can't we have that with non-straight characters? Why is the gay relationship is relegated to couple of seconds out of nowhere blink-and-you miss it hand holding? Like I literally have no problem with the relationship existing, I wanted more time dedicated to it, at least one scene of the characters talking and bonding. It is really bizarre how so many people here seem to imply that wishing that more time was spent on the non-straight relationship is somehow homophobic. Like what the hell?
Star Trek has a tradition with out of no where feelings, Kirk fell in love at the drop of a hat.
I'm just jumping in at the end of this 21-page conversation, but...
There was nothing on Voyager to suggest Seven of Nine liked women. In the final season, we learn she has a thing for Chakotay. In the finale, we learn she would have married Chakotay, only to die in his arms after an away mission gone sideways. Now, suddenly, she likes women? It seems inconsistent with her portrayal on Voyager. I'm in my 30's, and I come from a different background, but can't people be very close friends without it being romantic or sexual? This applies to both same sex and opposite sex. A good example of this would be Stargate: Atlantis for those who watched. The expedition leader (female) and military leader (male) were very close friends, but it was never suggested they had a thing for each other. I like seeing people pair up in TV shows, but I also want to see people pair off as close friends without it the cliché that they must become a couple.
Circling back to Seven, if we're just discussing her and Raffi specifically, it comes off as inconsistent in regards to Seven of Nine.
There was nothing on Voyager to suggest Seven of Nine liked women. In the final season, we learn she has a thing for Chakotay. In the finale, we learn she would have married Chakotay, only to die in his arms after an away mission gone sideways. Now, suddenly, she likes women? It seems inconsistent with her portrayal on Voyager. I'm in my 30's, and I come from a different background, but can't people be very close friends without it being romantic or sexual? This applies to both same sex and opposite sex. A good example of this would be Stargate: Atlantis for those who watched. The expedition leader (female) and military leader (male) were very close friends, but it was never suggested they had a thing for each other. I like seeing people pair up in TV shows, but I also want to see people pair off as close friends without it the cliché that they must become a couple.
Circling back to Seven, if we're just discussing her and Raffi specifically, it comes off as inconsistent in regards to Seven of Nine.
Seven did not have many relationships on Voyager and was pretty clueless about whole romance thing. Her being bi is absolutely fine. Literally the only problem with her relationship with Raffi is that there was not more of it. Though if it was a last minute improvisation, then of course that is understandable. I hope they expand on this on the next season.
Why do you care? Gay and trans people exist in real life and media is meant to reflect real life to various degrees, so they’re going to show up and should show up. There needs to be more. We can’t ban certain people from media because an increasingly small minority of people have issues with them. Your scare quotes around “non-binary” is giving you away.
Lots of people come out as gay or trans later in life for various reasons. Seven was a Borg most of her life and only begin to grow as a person on Voyager. Her coming out as bi years later would make perfect sense because she was having to rebuild her life from scratch.
I don't think anyone disagrees with this point. I think that people disagree with how it was done and why it was done so quickly.
Finding out that it was the actors deciding to do that and not the writers changes my opinion on it quite a bit though.
Or anyone, for that matter.
At that time, Seven barely knew what sex and romance even were. She certainly had no idea how to personally relate to it. Sure, she offered to "copulate" with Harry, but she just treated it as an intellectual exercise. (Assuming she even knew how to have sex.)
On VOY, Seven really didn't have a sexual orientation. It must have taken years to develop one. How can she know who she's attracted to when she's never experienced attraction?
I know several people who were straight until they weren't. (I think I'm paraphrasing Dan Savage there.)
In the context of a society where people literally do not care about sexual orientation, it is not sensible to expect a character's bisexuality to come up in the absence of two relationships or at least potential relationships showing up on screen. And more than two would be perfectly reasonable. Bisexuals aren't required to alternate their partner's gender with every relationship.
As for Seven in particular, people have been shipping Seven and Janeway for decades. If anyone's responsible for this development, it's fans.
In the context of a society where people literally do not care about sexual orientation, it is not sensible to expect a character's bisexuality to come up in the absence of two relationships or at least potential relationships showing up on screen. And more than two would be perfectly reasonable. Bisexuals aren't required to alternate their partner's gender with every relationship.
As for Seven in particular, people have been shipping Seven and Janeway for decades. If anyone's responsible for this development, it's fans.
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I am appalled by the producers framing Raffi - a former addict - doing shots with somebody as a "positive" ending. Them holding hands just came out of nowhere, so it doesn't save the scene.
Seven definitely is not gay, but there's nothing in the way of her being bi-sexual. (Raffi I assumed mostly straight, too, because she had a son, but who knows, maybe she had him with another woman? It's the future).
Seven & another women certainly should not be more extraordinary than Seven & a hologram, a thing which was also played with in VOY. They never did that on VOY - but Seven never seemed totally opposed either - she seems very open-minded.
Can't speak for others, but I have two obvious problems:
Seven definitely is not gay, but there's nothing in the way of her being bi-sexual. (Raffi I assumed mostly straight, too, because she had a son, but who knows, maybe she had him with another woman? It's the future).
Seven & another women certainly should not be more extraordinary than Seven & a hologram, a thing which was also played with in VOY. They never did that on VOY - but Seven never seemed totally opposed either - she seems very open-minded.
Can't speak for others, but I have two obvious problems:
- The alcohol thing
- The off-screen, post-happy-ending break-up with Chakotay just to have your sexy main star be single again
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