Hey, I never noticed that before....

[ZapBrannigan]

In the Shatner vein, my favorite didn't-notice-it-for-years acting moment was in The Naked Time, when Sulu was on the bridge with the sword. Specifically, the "Put -- put that thing away!" shot of Shatner. Watch it back in slow motion as Kirk puts his hand on the sword tip. His entire facial demeanor, in about a half second of real time, completely changes as he apparently realizes the potential threat level of the situation (not sure how else to describe it). It's mostly in the eyes...but it is amazing how he could manipulate his expression so subtly and so quickly!

I think the secret of good acting is that he didn't manipulate his facial expression. He was "in the moment" and genuinely felt what Kirk was supposed to feel.

OTOH, I often thought "Sisko" on DS9 was deliberately contriving his facial expressions. He may have been a natural on Spenser (I didn't watch that show), but I think DS9 needed a lead with better training.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I think the secret of good acting is that he didn't manipulate his facial expression. He was "in the moment" and genuinely felt what Kirk was supposed to feel.

OTOH, I often thought "Sisko" on DS9 was deliberately contriving his facial expressions. He may have been a natural on Spenser (I didn't watch that show), but I think DS9 needed a lead with better training.

To me, it looks like Shatner was genuinely concerned at Takei's excitement waving the thing around.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I often thought "Sisko" on DS9 was deliberately contriving his facial expressions. He may have been a natural on Spenser (I didn't watch that show), but I think DS9 needed a lead with better training.

Avery Brooks had a pretty extensive stage career both before and after DS9.

To me, it looks like Shatner was genuinely concerned at Takei's excitement waving the thing around.

As Shatner tells it, he was.

 

[FormerLurker]

OTOH, I often thought "Sisko" on DS9 was deliberately contriving his facial expressions. He may have been a natural on Spenser (I didn't watch that show), but I think DS9 needed a lead with better training.

I often got the feeling that Sisko as portrayed was striving to control his emotions, especially rage. Indeed, his animosity with the Vulcans seemed motivated in part by his wanting to show them he could control his emotions as well as they did, yet still be able to express them.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Avery Brooks had a pretty extensive stage career both before and after DS9.

Okay, but maybe stage acting didn't make him a good actor for the screen. Maybe his stage style projected deliberate facial expressions to the last row, while on-camera work favors the understatement and subtlety that come from forgetting your face and just feeling the part. And I'm sure it's impossible for a TV actor to really do that all the time, but when it can be done, it's magic.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Watching "Errand of Mercy" on H&I right now, and was once again reminded that the place where Kirk & Spock phasered some Klingons on Organia is the same spot where Pike and Vina fought the Kaylar.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x26hd/errandofmercyhd545.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x26hd/errandofmercyhd546.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x12hd/themenageriepart2hd176.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x12hd/themenageriepart2hd187.jpg

It looks like the top of the arches might have been modified?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It looks like the top of the arches might have been modified?

Yeah, looks like.

 

[Maurice]

Okay, but maybe stage acting didn't make him a good actor for the screen. Maybe his stage style projected deliberate facial expressions to the last row, while on-camera work favors the understatement and subtlety that come from forgetting your face and just feeling the part. And I'm sure it's impossible for a TV actor to really do that all the time, but when it can be done, it's magic.

Stage and screen acting are somewhat different. There’s a great video of Michael Caine teaching this to other actors.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I decided that a "Subtle Shatner" thread was actually a good idea, so here it is. Please share your favorite Subtle Shatner moments over there.

 

[Poltargyst]

Star Trek did have an ongoing thing with Commodores being able to take over in times of emergency. A commodore is today's Rear Admiral. If Kirk were actually on board, Decker may not have been able to do it. Both Decker and Stocker took over when Kirk was off the ship or incapacitated. Decker's point, officially, was the decision to stop the planet killer from reaching the Rigel system. Spock's point was to get Kirk and then warn Starfleet. Decker's inability to see past his own need for revenge made it impossible to see Spock's logic. So he used his authority as the senior officer in absence of the actual captain to take over.

Whether this could happen in the actual Navy? I don't know, but Trek had vets on their staff, so I assume there's some validity or loopholes that made it possible.

If Kirk was on the ship refusing to engage the planet killer, I think Decker would still have pulled rank and attempted to take command of the ship. Decker outranked Kirk. It's not just because Kirk wasn't on the ship.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If Kirk was on the ship refusing to engage the planet killer, I think Decker would still have pulled rank and attempted to take command of the ship. Decker outranked Kirk. It's not just because Kirk wasn't on the ship.

I think Commodore Decker would have to be in charge of a squadron or task force, or a part of the overall fleet, that the Enterprise belonged to. Decker would have to be in Kirk's direct chain of command, and in the Enterprise's direct chain of command, not just a higher guy in Starfleet.

I say this because, due to rampant grade inflation, the U.S. Navy has more admirals than ships. Just being a mere admiral isn't the big deal it used to be. But the Navy is very particular about whom they entrust with commanding a ship. You don't just get it for your rank and seniority. You have to pass through a fine screen and be chosen to command that ship.

Decker's command of the Constellation obviously means he passed through the fine screen, and his command of the Enterprise suggests the two ships were "under the same flag," possibly Decker's flag. Add the fact that they were cut off from radio contact with headquarters, and Decker has all the authority in the world. But he needed all three conditions, or the story might be different.

 

[Henoch]

Decker's command of the Constellation obviously means he passed through the fine screen, and his command of the Enterprise suggests the two ships were "under the same flag," possibly Decker's flag. Add the fact that they were cut off from radio contact with headquarters, and Decker has all the authority in the world. But he needed all three conditions, or the story might be different.

Kirk would do the exact same thing in person that he did once he got in contact with the Enterprise: order security to escort Decker to Sickbay; and take his lumps in a court martial if they survived the encounter.

 

[PCz911]

Stage and screen acting are somewhat different. There’s a great video of Michael Caine teaching this to other actors.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Brilliant!

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Was watching Day of The Dove the other night, and just noticed Uhura holding a dagger when she leans over Kirk's chair as she wanders out loud why Chekhov thinks he has a brother. Possibly the same one as Mirror Mirror?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Was watching Day of The Dove the other night, and just noticed Uhura holding a dagger when she leans over Kirk's chair as she wanders out loud why Chekhov thinks he has a brother. Possibly the same one as Mirror Mirror?

It doesn’t look the same at all. The handle in Day of the Dove is decorative. The knives in Mirror, Morrir had everyone carrying uniform and very plain, functional daggers.

 

[Commishsleer]

If Kirk was on the ship refusing to engage the planet killer, I think Decker would still have pulled rank and attempted to take command of the ship. Decker outranked Kirk. It's not just because Kirk wasn't on the ship.

I've just watched Doomsday Machine and was again surprised how regulations supported Decker. Looks like any passing Commodore could take over any ship. I thought being the captain of any ship was a big deal. I didn't think any senior officer could just take over whenever they felt like it. Could that happen in the US Navy today. I know that aircraft carrier captain was sacked recently bit again a 'big deal' not a part of regulations.
Well what an excellent episode. Each time I see it I like it more and more. It had some good supporting parts from Washburn and Palmer. Just showing that other people can do their jobs on the Enterprise without taking anything from the leads.
I felt it was a bad episode to miss for Nichols. You had Palmer doing a lot of good things. This may be controversial. But she looked a lot more competent than Uhura. She was down there helping to repair her console, spitting out the numbers for Spock and generally doing a good job. Maybe Nichols beauty and presence makes me take her less seriously as an officer. I wonder if she was in this episode would Nichols have done the same things as Palmer or would they have written her differently say worrying about Kirk, falling over gracefully.

Anyway another good bit was where Decker refused to let Spock speak to Kirk at his station and made Spock come to him.

 

[Maurice]

[...]
I felt it was a bad episode to miss for Nichols. You had Palmer doing a lot of good things. This may be controversial. But she looked a lot more competent than Uhura. She was down there helping to repair her console, spitting out the numbers for Spock and generally doing a good job. Maybe Nichols beauty and presence makes me take her less seriously as an officer. I wonder if she was in this episode would Nichols have done the same things as Palmer or would they have written her differently say worrying about Kirk, falling over gracefully.[...]

The part was written for Uhura.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Another thing worth noticing in "The Doomsday Machine" is that its music score is in "leitmotif" style, meaning some characters and even some physical objects have their own individual themes. The transporter has a theme. The Constellation. The Shuttlecraft. Even a little thing like Sulu's Hangar door indicator light has a theme.

It's pretty awesome the way this score "narrates" the whole story. It's a work of genius from start to finish that puts most feature film scores to shame.

 

[J.T.B.]

I've just watched Doomsday Machine and was again surprised how regulations supported Decker. Looks like any passing Commodore could take over any ship. I thought being the captain of any ship was a big deal. I didn't think any senior officer could just take over whenever they felt like it. Could that happen in the US Navy today.

Yes it could. Flag officers who are qualified to command at sea do have authority over a vessel's commanding officer, even if the flag officer is only aboard as a passenger, US Navy Regulations Art. 1031 Sec. 1. A captain or below, even if senior to the vessel's CO, would not have that authority. Being a captain is a big deal, but being an admiral is a bigger deal.

The flip side of that is that if things went bad, the flag officer would bear most of the blame, too.

What could not happen in the USN is the situation in "The Deadly Years," because Stocker would not be qualified to command at sea.

 

[Dale Sams]

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here too:

In Way to Eden, when Sevrin is making his speech to Spock....nothing Sevrin says sounds particularly crazy, and its only started to be hand delivered to the audience when a Man Trap musical cue starts playing and Spock looks troubled.

But its hilarious when it switches immediatly to Spock saying to Kirk "Captain, Dr. Sevrin is insane."

This also has to be the worst edited (besides Alternative Factor) ep in the series. Between shots of Kirk with his uniform "mirror switched"....during one of Chekovs excrutiating scenes, the camera switches to Spock in his quarters for about 1.5 seconds for no reason whatsover.