Spoilers On Seven and sexuality

[rfmcdpei]

Agreed. That's not fair to Beverly.

But I think the problem was, the show would not have Beverly simply admit it.

She could simply say she wasn't attracted to females. But maybe the fear was that by saying that it would hurt that perfect image of human beings in the 24th century.

So she has to reject her, but make it about changing different bodies instead of her gender.

Even though she slept with Riker when he was the host and seemed eager to meet the next host when she thought it would be a male.

The explanation had a 'have your cake and eat it too' aspect to it.

That's the irony right now. Would Trek Picard boldly just say Seven was bi or had a female lover, or just leave subtle hints about it.

I do not read the situation quite that way. Beverly needed to be convinced by Troi in the first place than Odan-in-Riker was still close to the same person than she had fallen in love with, and even then it took time.

Three different hosts in the space of a week would be dizzying for anyone. That the third host was a woman, I think, underlined for Beverly just how little control she had over even basic elements of her relationship.

Since she was just using Seven going by what was said, anything jiggy with B'Sassy would have been one sided and toxic. I can buy them having sex but I'd never buy they were lovers in the sense of an honest or equal relationship.

That's the fun of ambiguous scenes like that. It's fantastic fodder for creating backstory fanfics of all kinds.

I think we can agree that an ex who wants to vivisect you for your body parts, and does this to your foster son, is a bad ex. That Seven has had so little experience surely did not help her.

 

[MrPointy]

I could totally see B/7 music videos being made if this were a story line on Voyager.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Q: I saw such sexual tension between Annika and Bjazyl. Am I right?

CHABON: Definitely.

(Also, MC has read Thomas Mann. I think I now have a little crush on him.)
http://blog.trekcore.com/2020/03/michael-chabon-star-trek-picard-fan-questions/

 

[Sci]

I definitely thought there was the implication Seven and Bjazyl might have been ex-partners. I also think it would be 100% valid to interpret their relationship as non-sexual. Either way, the essence of the story being told is about betrayal and violation of trust -- something that can happen in any relationship.

I do kind of hope we find out Seven is bisexual or pansexual though, and in a relationship with a woman. I think it would go a long way towards adding more depth to the character, and towards undermining the old Star Trek tendency towards sexual objectification of women.

 

[SolarisOne]

and towards undermining the old Star Trek tendency towards sexual objectification of women.

How? It'll just arouse all the guys with lesbian fetishes.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

How? It'll just arouse all the guys with lesbian fetishes.

The 'lesbian' fetishes usually means two women kissing, while posing to look hot for the male gaze... A real GLBT story (sexual, romantic or otherwise) would be different. Of course, that could still be anyone's fetish... but as long as the on-screen content doesn't objectify them, I'm fine.

 

[AlanC9]

Somehow, I can't see Seven as going in for gratuitous PDAs, so I think we'll be fine there.

 

[ITDUDE]

I haven't peaked into this thread at all since it started? So Seven may have had some lesbian experiences in the past.. so what?

 

[fireproof78]

I haven't peaked into this thread at all since it started? So Seven may have had some lesbian experiences in the past.. so what?

I'm still waiting for the big deal. I care very little about fictional characters and their sex lives...

...aside from that one slash fic I'm working on. But, I'm not making a show about it.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Somehow, I can't see Seven as going in for gratuitous PDAs, so I think we'll be fine there.

Unless we count the throttling and killing in public...

I'm still waiting for the big deal. I care very little about fictional characters and their sex lives...

It's hopefully not a bilg deal in the 24th century, so in-show, of course, it isn't..

It IS a big deal for a Star Trek show (DSC notwithstanding). Because apparently 'Berman et al, unfortunately, cared a lot about their fictional characters' sex lives and made sure it was always straight.
And that's why it is a big deal for many, if not most LGBT & friends viewers.

 

[fireproof78]

And that's why it is a big deal for many, if not most LGBT & friends viewers.

Fair point.

However, romance could be cut from Star Trek and I would be OK with it, all across the board.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Fair point.

However, romance could be cut from Star Trek and I would be OK with it, all across the board.

That’s because you’ve seen people you identify with in romantic situations since childhood. LGBTQ people haven’t and it still isn’t that common, Trek itself has utterly avoided it due to the bigotry of the producers. You’re someone leaving a large feast telling a starving person that you’re fine not eating for a while.

 

[fireproof78]

That’s because you’ve seen people you identify with in romantic situations since childhood. LGBTQ people haven’t and it still isn’t that common, Trek itself has utterly avoided it due to the bigotry of the producers. You’re someone leaving a large feast telling a starving person that you’re fine not eating for a while.

I mean, I see the point, but I straight up don't want romance in my Star Trek. I hated Kirk's relationships in TOS, couldn't stand any of the relationships in TNG or DS9 and skip pretty much all of it upon rewatches.

I'm happy that LGBTQ people get that relationships in the media. I just don't want romance in my Star Trek. Period. I skip it at every chance.

I'm sure I'm sounding like a dick and it's not meant that way. But, for me, romance is for real life; it isn't for media.

But, by all means, lets get every relationship on screen.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But this wasn't romance, it was horror.

"You're so beautiful, please take your clothes off, oh my, those breasts are spectacular... And now 15 minutes later that you are in an orgasmic after glow, I'm going to kidnapp your child and gut him like a fish."

Seven is going to associate orgasms for the next forever with filicide.

Her downstairs are closed for business.

That’s because you’ve seen people you identify with in romantic situations since childhood. LGBTQ people haven’t and it still isn’t that common, Trek itself has utterly avoided it due to the bigotry of the producers. You’re someone leaving a large feast telling a starving person that you’re fine not eating for a while.

I'm pretty sure that this is more unintentionally bigoted than less, but recently Berman or the other one, said (something like) "I feel that we really missed out by not having a gay episode (on Voyager), it would have been great, but we got distracted and didn't get around to it."

 

[Awesome Possum]

I'm pretty sure that this is more unintentionally bigoted than less, but recently Berman or the other one, said (something like) "I feel that we really missed out by not having a gay episode (on Voyager), it would have been great, but we got distracted and didn't get around to it."

Based on his actions and words at the time plus what the writers have said Berman was a homophobe. It wasn’t an issue with the time or television, it was Berman. There was LGBTQ representation years before TNG and only increased in the 90s and 00s while Berman was in charge. He kept Trek in an era of TV that ended in the 60s. Golden Girls and All In The Family was more progressive than Star Trek. The Berman era should be seen as a missed opportunity because of one man’s ignorance.

Here’s a video detailing it.

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[ThreeEdgedSword]

I just don't want romance in my Star Trek. Period. I skip it at every chance.

I get that. I wrote upthread there was only one romance on ST I really liked. And that was largely because of the actors; the writing really often did the characters a disservice. Most others were either boring or downright cringeworthy for me. And I wouldn't mind having none of this at all.

But let's face it, there will be sexual and/ or romantic relationships on ST, so there might as well be gay ones... Not just allusions and killing your ex.

 

[fireproof78]

But let's face it, there will be sexual and/ or romantic relationships on ST, so there might as well be gay ones... Not just allusions and killing your ex.

You make a good point and I agree.

I just want to be clear that my irritation at romance is not because its lesbian. I hate romance in most media, if not all. As you state it is either boring or cringeworthy and usually just vacillates between the two. It's not believable, not enjoyable and is easily skipable.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Frasier did a very nice episode in its first or second season. (And another one in season 11 with Sir Patrick ! He was, af course, fabulous as always!)

 

[Tim Thomason]

But this wasn't romance, it was horror.

"You're so beautiful, please take your clothes off, oh my, those breasts are spectacular... And now 15 minutes later that you are in an orgasmic after glow, I'm going to kidnapp your child and gut him like a fish."

Seven is going to associate orgasms for the next forever with filicide.

Her downstairs are closed for business.


I'm pretty sure that this is more unintentionally bigoted than less, but recently Berman or the other one, said (something like) "I feel that we really missed out by not having a gay episode (on Voyager), it would have been great, but we got distracted and didn't get around to it."

Jeri Taylor said that. The woman who developed Voyager and retired at the end of the fourth season. And she touted BTS conflicts as the reason Seven's sexuality wasn't explored more.

Berman stopped multiple attempts at gay representation across four series. Braga may have been more open to it, judging by his later work, but usually followed in step with Berman.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Frasier:

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Sir Patrick starts at 10:00