Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

[Kirk Prime]

An episode like this was supposed celebrate the series, but unfortunately, the writers made this series into something that's really hard to celebrate, because it's very hard to truly care about these characters like we should--or like we did when the show first started.

I feel like this season, people on this board really see that a) Lena is a true villain, and b) we are tired of Kara whining about Lena. Sometimes writers focus so much on a secondary character that the character drags down the show, and the best thing that can happen is for the character to leave.

Lena may be one of those characters. She was fine for a few years, but today, she is an annoyance. That happened with Lana Lang on Smallville for me. Smallville was too focused on her, and the show became tough to watch, and when Lana left, the show for me got so much better. Clark outgrew Lana, and Lois was already there, so Lana was holding the show back.

On Supergirl, there are just too many characters. The show could seriously lose Dreamer, Lena, Brainy, and Kelly, and would probably improve. You can make a similar argument on Flash around Team Citizen, Cecile, etc.

Maybe it IS time for Supergirl to wind down.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

An episode like this was supposed celebrate the series, but unfortunately, the writers made this series into something that's really hard to celebrate, because it's very hard to truly care about these characters like we should--or like we did when the show first started.

Yes, thee was no celebration-it was more of the misplaced "guilt" BS from Kara as she whined on and on about not sharing something that is uniquely her possession: her identity.

I feel like this season, people on this board really see that a) Lena is a true villain, and b) we are tired of Kara whining about Lena. Sometimes writers focus so much on a secondary character that the character drags down the show, and the best thing that can happen is for the character to leave.

Good point; Lena is a Luthor. One does not need to be blood related to share all of the traits and beliefs of the adoptive family. The showrunners are so concerned with selling the "gal pal" nonsense, that they weaken the main character by having her break laws (breaking into a government outpost to steal for Lena), and ignore the universe of deliberate, immoral acts committed by Lena all for this "bestest friend EVAR" crap.

Further, the 11th hour decision to warn Lena that she would be judged by her own actions rang hollow, as there's no way this series will ever have SG go after a full-on eugenicist (the greatest mass threat any human could pose to the population) in the way she breathlessly chased Ben Lockwood. Of course, the showrunners were making uneducated, one-sided statements about the immigration issue , but seem to brush eugenics and its place as one of the worst human beliefs/actions in history, all to--once gain--push this "gal pal" crap.

Additionally, Kara wanting to tell anyone her secret (who did not know at the start of the series) is incredibly irresponsible, as she--known to be related to Superman--would only intensify any investigation into her cousin's other half (for whatever negative purposes from villains, government, et al) if she revealed her identity. There's no way uncovering Superman's true identity would not become the rampe-up focus of a number of threats, and as a result, Lois and the kids' lives would be in greater danger than ever before, all because Kara has no sense of the right to a private identity.

Maybe it IS time for Supergirl to wind down.

That depends on Benoist. If she is tired of the role--and we're being honest, has not displayed much growth over the past 3 or so seasons--then next season will be her last. No matter what the showrunners do, she fails to grow as a person.

 

[Kirk Prime]

And I think that's what's really frustrating--Kara hiding her identity from Lena was not wrong.

It should also be noted that from the point of view of the world, why would Supergirl have an identity? Why would they suspect that she's someone living among humans, just living a human life? For all they know, Superman and Supergirl are always in costume and are off doing other things when not seen.

But that said, if Lena was a true friend, she would understand Kara's reasoning, and not view it as some sort of betrayal. It was nothing of the sort.

And even this episode addressed that Kara coming out publicly would put her friends in danger--only J'onn would be able to truly be prepared for that, with maybe Nia and Brainy. The normal humans would absolutely be at risk.

I wonder how Superman will affect Supergirl. A well written version of Superman might further push Supergirl toward a series finale.

 

[Christopher]

Fun episode; this version of Mxy was much funnier than the last one. Although it felt a bit insubstantial because none of the timelines were real, and it was never really explained how Mxy got sucked into that last one along with Kara.

Also, I feel they missed an opportunity. Once Mxy got his hat back and accessed its magic to get them out of the dystopia, I wondered, "Hey, wait, was this all a ploy to get his magic hat back and escape his 'community service'?" That would've been an effective payoff and given the episode some real stakes. Although I gather this is a recurring role for Lennon, so maybe that will still turn out to have been the case?

I think my favorite bit was the court-ordered tape recording of him saying his name backward. Although if that works, you'd think all anyone would need to do to banish Mxy is to record him saying his name and then play it backward. No, wait, I guess it only works if he says or otherwise renders his name backward, so if he says it forward and it's reversed by someone else, that wouldn't count.

Why is it, I wonder, that whenever a flashback episode uses a wig to recreate a performer's old hairstyle, they're never able to match what it really looked like? Present-day Benoist in the wig didn't look all that convincing as a recreation of her past self. Though I think it's partly that her facial proportions have changed a little, as everyone's do over time.

 

[TheMadCloner]

And I think that's what's really frustrating--Kara hiding her identity from Lena was not wrong.

It should also be noted that from the point of view of the world, why would Supergirl have an identity? Why would they suspect that she's someone living among humans, just living a human life? For all they know, Superman and Supergirl are always in costume and are off doing other things when not seen.

But that said, if Lena was a true friend, she would understand Kara's reasoning, and not view it as some sort of betrayal. It was nothing of the sort.

And even this episode addressed that Kara coming out publicly would put her friends in danger--only J'onn would be able to truly be prepared for that, with maybe Nia and Brainy. The normal humans would absolutely be at risk.

I wonder how Superman will affect Supergirl. A well written version of Superman might further push Supergirl toward a series finale.

My guess is they want to do at least one crossover between the Super series’. Maybe we’ll see Earth-96’s version of Supergirl at some point too.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Fun episode; this version of Mxy was much funnier than the last one. Although it felt a bit insubstantial because none of the timelines were real, and it was never really explained how Mxy got sucked into that last one along with Kara.

Also, I feel they missed an opportunity. Once Mxy got his hat back and accessed its magic to get them out of the dystopia, I wondered, "Hey, wait, was this all a ploy to get his magic hat back and escape his 'community service'?" That would've been an effective payoff and given the episode some real stakes. Although I gather this is a recurring role for Lennon, so maybe that will still turn out to have been the case?

I think my favorite bit was the court-ordered tape recording of him saying his name backward. Although if that works, you'd think all anyone would need to do to banish Mxy is to record him saying his name and then play it backward. No, wait, I guess it only works if he says or otherwise renders his name backward, so if he says it forward and it's reversed by someone else, that wouldn't count.

Why is it, I wonder, that whenever a flashback episode uses a wig to recreate a performer's old hairstyle, they're never able to match what it really looked like? Present-day Benoist in the wig didn't look all that convincing as a recreation of her past self. Though I think it's partly that her facial proportions have changed a little, as everyone's do over time.

I don’t think her facial proportions have changed that much, it’s moreso that the bangs and her new makeup ages her look by 10 years. I still think they need to go back to her old hair, it was classic and borderline iconic.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Yes, thee was no celebration-it was more of the misplaced "guilt" BS from Kara as she whined on and on about not sharing something that is uniquely her possession: her identity.



Good point; Lena is a Luthor. One does not need to be blood related to share all of the traits and beliefs of the adoptive family. The showrunners are so concerned with selling the "gal pal" nonsense, that they weaken the main character by having her break laws (breaking into a government outpost to steal for Lena), and ignore the universe of deliberate, immoral acts committed by Lena all for this "bestest friend EVAR" crap.

Further, the 11th hour decision to warn Lena that she would be judged by her own actions rang hollow, as there's no way this series will ever have SG go after a full-on eugenicist (the greatest mass threat any human could pose to the population) in the way she breathlessly chased Ben Lockwood. Of course, the showrunners were making uneducated, one-sided statements about the immigration issue , but seem to brush eugenics and its place as one of the worst human beliefs/actions in history, all to--once gain--push this "gal pal" crap.

Additionally, Kara wanting to tell anyone her secret (who did not know at the start of the series) is incredibly irresponsible, as she--known to be related to Superman--would only intensify any investigation into her cousin's other half (for whatever negative purposes from villains, government, et al) if she revealed her identity. There's no way uncovering Superman's true identity would not become the rampe-up focus of a number of threats, and as a result, Lois and the kids' lives would be in greater danger than ever before, all because Kara has no sense of the right to a private identity.



That depends on Benoist. If she is tired of the role--and we're being honest, has not displayed much growth over the past 3 or so seasons--then next season will be her last. No matter what the showrunners do, she fails to grow as a person.

Benoist will probably stop after Season 7 or 8. At some point she will want to explore other projects and maybe settle down to have a baby and more time with family. This is always going to be her most iconic role though and if she gets paid well enough she may just stay on for a extra season or two; that is, if the show isn’t cancelled first due to ratings.

 

[Kirk Prime]

My guess is they want to do at least one crossover between the Super series’. Maybe we’ll see Earth-96’s version of Supergirl at some point too.

They have to be very careful with a crossover. First, I haven't heard anything about Routh getting a series other than wishful thinking. Second, Routh blew Hoschlin out of the water in the crossover. Before they can bring Routh in, they need to establish this version of Superman more in accordance with how the character is supposed to be.

I would love to see Earth 96 Supergirl as well.

 

[TheMadCloner]

They have to be very careful with a crossover. First, I haven't heard anything about Routh getting a series other than wishful thinking. Second, Routh blew Hoschlin out of the water in the crossover. Before they can bring Routh in, they need to establish this version of Superman more in accordance with how the character is supposed to be.

I would love to see Earth 96 Supergirl as well.

Sorry I should have elaborated further. What I meant was they’ll feature Earth 96 in Tyler’s Superman series and have both Routh and Benoist guest star in a crossover. Routh has said he’s open to reprising the SM role even after getting forced out of LoT.

But I would agree they need to establish Tyler’s SM better first. I dunno if they did it intentionally but they clearly made Routh’s SM 100x more authoritative during CoIE and while that’s a great look for SM-96, it’s a bad look for SM-Prime.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But I would agree they need to establish Tyler’s SM better first. I dunno if they did it intentionally but they clearly made Routh’s SM 100x more authoritative during CoIE and while that’s a great look for SM-96, it’s a bad look for SM-Prime.

True. CW-Superman is just there in name only, and lacks the gravitas of the best interpretations of the character, namely Reeve and Cavill. He also lacks their physical presence--a sense that he's the visual representation of power.

 

[Kirk Prime]

True. CW-Superman is just there in name only, and lacks the gravitas of the best interpretations of the character, namely Reeve and Cavill. He also lacks their physical presence--a sense that he's the visual representation of power.

His only purpose so far was to be made to look weak to boost Supergirl. Hopefully with a new writing team, and his own series, he can take his proper place and actually be Superman. Without that, the show won't do very well.

 

[TheMadCloner]

True. CW-Superman is just there in name only, and lacks the gravitas of the best interpretations of the character, namely Reeve and Cavill. He also lacks their physical presence--a sense that he's the visual representation of power.

That's partly due to poor casting and partly due to forced bad writing. You don't have to weaken SM to make SG appear stronger, but that's exactly what they did. I still remember those scenes where they made him say "I wouldn't have saved Earth if Lois was in danger" after SG sent Mon-El away in the pod. Yeah right, saving Earth is exactly what Superman would have done (actually he would have found a way to save both of them, but that's besides the point). They could have made him sympathize with SG without weakening him to that extent.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Well, according to TVline, the ratings for Episode 100 of Supergirl are 667K and 0.2. I know that the episode will be re-watch later and the number of viewers will grow but I won't lie, I'm surprised to learn that the number of viewers are not higher* -> Would Kara/Lena and Kara/Mon-El fans have sulked the evening? )

* Just for comparison, the ratings for the previous episode, were 668K/0.2 ("steady while drawing its smallest audience ever" TVline said last week -> it seems that we broke a new record for a Sunday night on CW! ).

 

[TheMadCloner]

Well, according to TVline, the ratings for Episode 100 of Supergirl are 667K and 0.2. I know that the episode will be re-watch later and the number of viewers will grow but I won't lie, I'm surprised to learn that the number of viewers are not higher* -> Would Kara/Lena and Kara/Mon-El fans have sulked the evening? )

* Just for comparison, the ratings for the previous episode, were 668K/0.2 ("steady while drawing its smallest audience ever" TVline said last week -> it seems that we broke a new record for a Sunday night on CW! ).

I'm not surprised. The Winn return/storyline, while nostalgic, was mostly unrelated to the main plot of the season and left the show with no momentum heading into the 100th episode.

 

[Kirk Prime]

That's partly due to poor casting and partly due to forced bad writing. You don't have to weaken SM to make SG appear stronger, but that's exactly what they did. I still remember those scenes where they made him say "I wouldn't have saved Earth if Lois was in danger" after SG sent Mon-El away in the pod. Yeah right, saving Earth is exactly what Superman would have done (actually he would have found a way to save both of them, but that's besides the point). They could have made him sympathize with SG without weakening him to that extent.

So the real question is, will the writers of his TV show understand the criticisms, or will they double down and still make Superman weak? The character so far has been written horribly, but I don't believe the Supergirl writers will be writing in the fall. Superman is the center of the DC Universe, so his show will have a chance to reflect that and should have a decent ratings start.

Well, according to TVline, the ratings for Episode 100 of Supergirl are 667K and 0.2. I know that the episode will be re-watch later and the number of viewers will grow but I won't lie, I'm surprised to learn that the number of viewers are not higher*

Ultimately, it's writing. Yes, this was the 100th episode, but while there were some nice returns, were any of the returning characters so awesome that the audience will consider it must see TV? For the past few seasons, the writers have made poor decisions, and that includes this season. Last year, Supergirl's best episodes were the first two Luthor ones. THAT is the quality I hold this show to, yet it rarely delivers. I'm hoping the Superman team can make it work.

There is a lot riding on Superman & Lois. IF they can do it right, it will revitalize the Arrowverse and make it fresh. If not, that's a problem.

 

[Christopher]

You don't have to weaken SM to make SG appear stronger, but that's exactly what they did.

No, it isn't. They didn't make Superman "weak," they correctly portrayed him as a person who is humble about himself and always builds other people up. Anyone who thinks humility is weakness has no comprehension of what strength means. Strength is something you use to lift up others, not yourself. Superman has always understood that even if some of his "fans" do not.

 

[TheMadCloner]

So the real question is, will the writers of his TV show understand the criticisms, or will they double down and still make Superman weak? The character so far has been written horribly, but I don't believe the Supergirl writers will be writing in the fall. Superman is the center of the DC Universe, so his show will have a chance to reflect that and should have a decent ratings start.



Ultimately, it's writing. Yes, this was the 100th episode, but while there were some nice returns, were any of the returning characters so awesome that the audience will consider it must see TV? For the past few seasons, the writers have made poor decisions, and that includes this season. Last year, Supergirl's best episodes were the first two Luthor ones. THAT is the quality I hold this show to, yet it rarely delivers. I'm hoping the Superman team can make it work.

There is a lot riding on Superman & Lois. IF they can do it right, it will revitalize the Arrowverse and make it fresh. If not, that's a problem.

Yup, agreed with all of this. I miss the golden years of SG, seasons 1-3 were fresh and exciting. Season 4 was ambitious in scope, but the execution and the forced political messaging was entirely the wrong way to go about it. I still watch because Benoist is a great actress and her portrayal of SG/Kara is something you can root for, but the show is definitely losing momentum and these long drawn out tepid storylines are not helping.

 

[TheMadCloner]

No, it isn't. They didn't make Superman "weak," they correctly portrayed him as a person who is humble about himself and always builds other people up. Anyone who thinks humility is weakness has no comprehension of what strength means. Strength is something you use to lift up others, not yourself. Superman has always understood that even if some of his "fans" do not.

They made him weak in terms of his physicality and his powers (the CW-Superman is the weakest SM by far in any canon depiction) too.

But more to your point, being humble is one thing, but his dialogue is stilted and aside from his initial appearances in Season 2, he nearly always defers to someone else for decision-making or agency. That's not Superman. This is readily apparent because you can see the writers consciously making another version of Superman (the Earth-96 version) MORE assertive and authoritative in the same episode; look how they write Routh's lines vs. how they write Tyler's lines. Routh's SM gets the decisive lines, Tyler's gets the lackey treatment.

Also, strength might be something to lift others up with, but you lift someone else up by empowering/sympathizing with their decision (e.g. "you're the strongest person I know for being able to make that decision, your parents would be proud of you"), not comparing their decision to something you may or may not have done ("I wouldn't have been able to make that decision"). The former is being supportive and sympathetic, while the latter is actually being a bit self-absorbed during another's time of need.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

it's just a thought but don't you think that the absence of promo for the 5x14 would be because in the next episode, Kara - who is free now from any feeling of guilt towards Lena - and William are going to begin dating and according to what's happened when the promo of the 5x12, the Valentine's episode was released (I mean the backlash of William's character, the one towards the idea of William as Kara's very future boyfriend and of course, the threat of a boycott from SuperCorp's fans) the producers/CW PR wanted at all costs to avoid a repetition? Unless of course, it's simply due to lack of time in the releasing of the promo... .

Anyway, we already know the title of the 5x14 (the Bodyguard) and its synopsisis (Lex charges Supergirl to protect Andrea Rojas : as Lena will be again stuck in her labo, she shouldn't cross Supergirl/Kara's way -> it would have been interesting to see her post Kara's speech's reaction! )

 

[Guy Gardener]

William is the chick.

The role of the chick is to be murdered by baddies and avenged by the hero.